Spies, shut up and race

[tecknojoe]

You should be worried about Cal not Marquez

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/raci...p-rookie-rule/

After winning the World Superbike Championship in 2009, Ben Spies continued his rise to motorcycling stardom, as Yamaha gave the Texan its blessing to move onto the MotoGP Championship. The move wasn’t made without resistance though, as the satellite teams within MotoGP were sick and tired of seeing top-talent riders like Spies go directly into factory-backed teams in their first season. Thus the Rookie Rule was born, seemingly with the direct detriment of Spies in mind.
Showing its mettle with the American Spies, the Rookie Rule was again tested when Italian Marco Simoncelli entered MotoGP, and was forced to join the San Carlo Gresini Honda team. Simoncelli, considered by many in the MotoGP paddock to have the future star-power of mentor Valentino Rossi, served his two-season sentence in the satellite squad, and before his untimely death at Sepang, he was expected to move up to the factory ranks in 2012.
Now with the shock news of Casey Stoner’s retirement, HRC has been put in a tremendously difficult position with its factory-backed Repsol Honda team. Though said to be eager to retain Dani Pedrosa, HRC realizes that its long-term future is in Marc Marquez. With the young Spanish Moto2 rider posing a number of problems in his expected ascension into MotoGP in 2013, Honda has found itself between a rock and a hard place for next season.
Similarly, Dorna is in a precarious spot with the state of the MotoGP Championship. Watching its golden goose Valentino Rossi struggle on the Ducati, and counting the nine-time World Champion’s future time in MotoGP on only several fingers, the MotoGP media rights holder is under tremendous pressure to find a new star to attract the masses, and as a Spanish company…the preference is seen as favoring a Spaniard to take that center-stage spotlight. Enter the repeal of the MotoGP Rookie Rule, which kills two birds with one stone.
With Honda long believed to be pulling the strings on Dorna’s marionette (as it is the manufacturer with the largest presence in MotoGP), and Dorna having an obvious interest in helping cultivate a badly needed new star/personality in its sport, it was announced at the tail-end of the British GP that MotoGP would do away with the Rookie Rule for 2013. Stating that it served no purpose anymore for the satellite teams (interestingly enough, the only teams seemingly quoted as saying the rule was unnecessary were the Honda satellite teams), the MotoGP Rookie Rule was cast aside as something that applied to a former vestige of the Grand Prix Championship.
The short-lived application of the provision, and its obvious implementation and repudiation occurring for very specific riders, has lead to an enormous outcry of how arbitrary the MotoGP rules have become, and has leaded to fans and commentators to cry afoul of the internal relationships between Dorna, manufacturers, and those of certain nationalities.
While much can be said on the subject, perhaps the most succinct and accurate appraisal of the situation comes from the rule’s first intended target: Ben Spies. One of three Americans in “the Spanish Championship that travels around the world”, the factory Yamaha rider, whose future placement for the 2013 season could now be affected by “the Marquez Rule”, had no problem telling his fans on Twitter exactly what he thought of Dorna’s latest decision. Agree or disagree, leave your thoughts in the comments.

[Ted]

Yeah... This dude needs to not let shit like this distract him. With each passing race weekend, it appears to me he is getting one race closer to losing his current ride !

side note.... I notice something while checking the riders heights and weights; The American riders are the heaviest... I wonder why ??????????????????????????? I need answers !

[mauser72]

This is the organization that affords you your dream of making it rich doing what you love, keep talking bad about your work place and you just might wake up without a job. Motogp is trying to do what ever they can to keep the brand profitable and if they think this will help then I trust they know better than I.

[spideyrdr]

The creation and repeal of arbitrary rules is frustrating, but the rule itself was put in place in 2010 and is being dropped for 2013 - talk about arbitrary. I think any rider who sees the rules being tampered with like that has a right to state their mind. It without a doubt seems like the repeal of the rule is being done purely for Márquez, a Spaniard who rides Honda. More below.

Rookies who possibly could have jumped straight to a factory ride (hypothetically) during the time the Rookie Rule was in place were as follows:
Spies, an American, in 2010.
Simoncelli, an Italian, in 2011.
Crutchlow, an Englishman, in 2011.
Bradl, a German, in 2012.

To me, these were the guys who MAY have been able to secure a factory ride without the Rookie Rule. No one can be sure how it would have shaken out without the Rule, but clearly these guys were prevented from having any chance to vie for a factory ride due to the Rule.

Now Dorna is frothing at the mouth to have Márquez move up to a factory ride next year, and they drop the rule. A lot more of it seems political than simply "We changed our mind". Honda may want him to take Stoner's spot - which he couldn't do if the Rookie Rule was in place. Also, Márquez is long-associated with Repsol while the satellite teams are sponsored by other petroleum companies (ELF and Castrol), so it would be "inconvenient" from a sponsorship standpoint for him to go to one of those satellite teams.

I'm not ignoring the fact that there were a couple of other Spanish rookies that entered during the time the Rookie Rule was in place, but they seem to be less-likely to have made the jump to a factory ride. Those riders were:

Bautista, in 2010. He finished 4th in the 250 class in 2009, so the jump to a satellite team would have made sense.
Barberá, in 2010. He finished 2nd in the 250 class in 2009, maybe he could have gotten a factory ride without the Rookie Rule, though he finished 12th overall in 2010, so maybe he wasn't quite ready.

Spies is slowly maybe returning to better form. I want to see him do better and succeed, and frankly his factory ride might be in jeopardy at this point. But the man was subject to the Rookie Rule and thinks it's a case of Dorna playing favorites - he's got a right to say that. I don't subscribe to the notion that MotoGP pays his way therefore he needs to just sit back and take it - rules being created and scrapped to suit the whims of Dorna, not protect the riders, is weak. It makes Dorna look like the promoters of the WWE more than the promoters of the premier motorcycle championship.

[mcarthd26]

Spidey,
It's almost like you have enough information to have an informed opinion but not really. In separate interviews Lucio Cecchinello and Greseni have both stated that in this situation having Marquez on their team would be far more harmful than beneficial. He would be there for a year and to accommodate this they would lose longstanding relationships with Elf and Castrol for sponsorship. They would also have to fire their mechanics to make way for Marquez's team. Then a year later they would lose Marquez to the factory Repsol team and they would have no sponsor and no team to work with their new rider. Sounds like a great deal?

As for Spies and his brilliance, Is their really anyone delusional enough to think that when he came to MotoGP that Yamaha was going to terminate one of the contracts (both had two year deals in place) for Rossi or Lorenzo so he could have a factory ride?? Well it appears that Mr. Spies and you do but I'm not convinced.

Simoncelli did get a factory ride on a Gresini bike. Crutchlow and Bradl had no shot of going direct to factory.

DORNA and Honda are known to have a relationship that favors Honda, and they do let Honda control the rules too much. But if you want to continue to watch MotoGP with any prototype machinery you'll have to accept that Honda gets there way DORNA has.

I wonder if Spies wasn't "american" if anyone here would really care?? Spies should be telling us all how great it is that he has a factory ride right now. If it wasn't for Yamaha America he would be lucky to be in GP. He may even hang on to that ride just so they can sell R1's to delusional Americans who think he has a chance to win in GP. That ride should go to, in order Crutchlow, Dovi, Rossi, Pedrosa, Hayden, Bautista, Bradl, Edwards, RdP, and probably 5 other CRT riders all of which show more potential. Spies should go back to WSBK or AMA where DORNA, "doesn't favor (the largest supplier of bikes on the grid.)" Spies is so overrated by US and for some reason British media it's ridiculous.

[Ted]

^Well said !

[spideyrdr]

Spidey,
It's almost like you have enough information to have an informed opinion but not really.

Actually every point that I made was enough to make an informed opinion. And you didn't bring one single additional piece of information to table to change that.

Márquez would be "harmful" to the satellite teams, to quote you. So they change the rule to suit the needs of Márquez. Exactly what I said.

Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but Gresini, despite a buttload of factory support, was not the factory team. Respol was. The trickery allowed Honda to get 5 riders on factory bikes and basically skirt the Rookie Rule for Simoncelli, but nonetheless, Gresini is not the factory team.

"Crutchlow and Bradl had no shot of going direct to factory." I assume this is an opinion - both of these riders show a lot of promise and I see no reason why they would have had "no shot" if there was an interested factory team and an opening. If this isn't purely your opinion, please explain.

I actually have to take a step back and correct myself. Spanish rider Bautista went straight to the factory Suzuki team in 2010. I thought he was on a satellite team but I was incorrect. So it's even more apparent that the "Rookie Rule" was actually the "Ben Spies Rule".

My point was not that Spies got screwed; he's had his ups and downs in his MotoGP career, and he's on a factory ride now (for now). The issue is that Dorna is playing with the rules to suit their whims. They put an arbitrary rule in place for 3 years, didn't enforce it for the Spanish rookie Bautista the same year they did enforce for American rookie Spies, and I'd maintain that it was enforced for Italian rider Simoncelli as Respol was "the" factory team, not Gresini. Now that there is another Spaniard in contention to move to the premier class, they're scrapping the rule to accommodate him, his sponsors, and Honda. It casts a doubt on their credibility, fairness, and impartiality in developing and administering the rules of the premier motorcycle racing championship.

Last item to add. Spies apparently followed up his Tweet with this: "Not hating on Marquez at all. The kid is fast. I'm just stating facts that no matter where ur from in shouldn't hinder or help u." I think that fairly summarizes the rider's feelings on it and mine as well. Edwards Tweeted back: "Complete joke!!!! No wonder Casey has lost his passion when u see all cards stacked against ya....ridiculous!!". It sounds like are are numerous voices in the paddock all concerned about the integrity of the the MotoGP series, not just Spies.

[kawasakirob]

I wonder if Spies wasn't "american" if anyone here would really care?? Spies should be telling us all how great it is that he has a factory ride right now. If it wasn't for Yamaha America he would be lucky to be in GP. He may even hang on to that ride just so they can sell R1's to delusional Americans who think he has a chance to win in GP. That ride should go to, in order Crutchlow, Dovi, Rossi, Pedrosa, Hayden, Bautista, Bradl, Edwards, RdP, and probably 5 other CRT riders all of which show more potential. Spies should go back to WSBK or AMA where DORNA, "doesn't favor (the largest supplier of bikes on the grid.)" Spies is so overrated by US and for some reason British media it's ridiculous.

I would really care if Spies were not American. Granted he is not doing well in GP's at the moment, but I do not think he should go back to WSBK or AMA. Why? Why would he go back to those series after doing so well in them previously, and EARNING a spot in Moto GP. He is a good rider who belongs to stay where he is (GP's). He may not be a top 5 Consistent rider, but that doesnt mean he needs to drop completely out of the class. Spies has EVERY right to be pissed and vent his frustration at this rule change. Its frustrating, its demoralizing, its crap. I think Marquez would be fine without a Repsol Sponsorship for 1 season. Seriously...Is it THAT big a deal? And yes I understand that Honda should have a say for paying stupid amounts of Money to fund heavy R&D in a dwindling series and should have the right to obtain any rider they want regardless of the Rookie Rule. I see that aspect. Just stick to the rules somebody!

[mcarthd26]

Apparently I didn't explain eloquently enough. I'll try again.

Was Spies going to get a factory ride? No. Opinion or fact? Fact. So why is he so upset?

Bautista got a full factory Suzuki because they had no satellite team. DORNA looked at the situation correctly realizing that it unfairly punished Suzuki to not let them sign Bautista.

I believe I clarified that two of the the five satellite team owners and the ones directly effected by the current situation have both publicly stated how much this would hinder their long term efforts to remain in motoGP. Even Herve Poncharal has stated recently that it was a good rule that did help raise the profile of satellite teams but was designed to help satellite teams. He then stated that keeping the rule now would only hurt the satellite teams. So.... The men most directly affected are for the change. I'm sorry that one rider and American casual fans are offended.

And since Edwards (my favorite rider) brought up Casey leaving because DORNA sucks so much, why is it that Stoner said that Marquez should go directly to the factory Repsol team?

At the time Spies was in his second year of a contract with Yamaha. Part of his contract was set up to transition to MotoGP with Yamaha. Looking back the contract was performance based and was supposed to be one year at Tech 3. Rossi and Lorenzo are signed at the time for the upcoming year. So again I ask you, was Yamaha going to terminate a contract with Rossi? He was defending champion at the time. Or how about Lorenzo? Their rising star that went on to win the championship?

You and Spies should drop the ridiculous sense of entitlement that Americans have. What about the facts.... Oh they don't apply, "I'm an American"

Well as I don't currently work for any of the factories that could have signed Crutchlow and Bradl, probably an opinion. But as I am a passionate fan that follows the series very closely, reading everything I can about it. I can confidently state that I was not alone in my beliefs that neither had any chance for factory rides. If you want more details I can provide them but sufficient to state that not many opportunities were really available to them at the time.

Simoncelli was on a Full Factory Honda at Gresini. This is such common knowledge that even casual fans know this.

I think the original post sums it up well. He should probably focus on the fact that his teammate is dominating the championship and he is consistently outperformed by Cal and Dovi. Drop the, "they always pick on me" bullshit.

[mcarthd26]

I didn't really address your points as well as I thought I was. I'm really not doing well at making my points or addressing yours. Also, grammar is not my strongest point. Not sure how many times I had to ask myself if it was affect or effect.

The overall point should be this, Spies should be losing his factory ride in the next couple of weeks. He's on the same bike as Lorenzo who hasn't finished lower than 2nd. His best finish is 5th, which very easily could have been lower. Cal and Dovi have consistently outperformed him. The year he was a rookie he had ZERO chance because of the actual circumstances of being on a factory Yamaha. Yamaha could have chose to go the Simoncelli route and give him a factory ride at Tech 3. They didn't. Company policy.

I will be the first to tell you that DORNA has made a lot of mistakes running the series and that the majority of the worst offenses (switch to 800cc, etc.) are directly influenced by Honda. Is that a broken system, YES. Are they actively trying to ruin the series (and their business) to favor the Spanish, highly unlikely. If you take out the sense of entitlement and actually look at each situation independently they are probably both in the best interest of the series.

You are grossly misunderstanding the level to which Marquez being forced to go to Gresini or LCR would do them damage. They have longstanding relationships with Castrol and ELF. As for Marquez, he's been a Repsol rider since he joined GP. The mechanics would be let go, they would then be snatched up by other teams. A year goes by, Marquez leaves and now you have no sponsor and no team. That is a huge problem. Marquez went through the Repsol development program and has a contract with them.

[spideyrdr]

You and Spies should drop the ridiculous sense of entitlement that Americans have. What about the facts.... Oh they don't apply, "I'm an American"

It's unfortunate that you've got to mix facts with personally derisive comments like this. None of this was about entitlement nor specifically the fact that Spies is an American. It's about the rights-holder, Dorna, playing with the rules to match their whims, which in turn calls into question the integrity of the premier motorcycle racing class. Personally, I think the rule was a dumb one to begin with, but the removal of it to suit a particular rider or team is shady.

And with that, I'm out of this particular thread. I hope Spies returns to his old form and starts riding the piss out of that bike. It's been fun to see my fellow country men get near the front once in a while, maybe one of the bastards will get a podium this year. Spies seems to be clicking better as the season progresses, Edwards is just a beast for coming back from that injury, and Nicky may have what it takes to podium the Duc if he can keep up the pace past the first couple of laps.

[mcarthd26]

I would really care if Spies were not American. Granted he is not doing well in GP's at the moment, but I do not think he should go back to WSBK or AMA. Why? Why would he go back to those series after doing so well in them previously, and EARNING a spot in Moto GP. He is a good rider who belongs to stay where he is (GP's). He may not be a top 5 Consistent rider, but that doesnt mean he needs to drop completely out of the class. Spies has EVERY right to be pissed and vent his frustration at this rule change. Its frustrating, its demoralizing, its crap. I think Marquez would be fine without a Repsol Sponsorship for 1 season. Seriously...Is it THAT big a deal? And yes I understand that Honda should have a say for paying stupid amounts of Money to fund heavy R&D in a dwindling series and should have the right to obtain any rider they want regardless of the Rookie Rule. I see that aspect. Just stick to the rules somebody!

Is not having Repsol sponsorship for 1 season a big deal? Hmmm... They have sponsored him since he went pro..... They have been the primary sponsor for every bike he has ridden.... He went through their rider development program.... And the teams he would go to are directly sponsored by RIVAL companies.... You're right, probably not a big deal.

When analyzing whether Spies should stay in GP it's important to look at the current situation. Correctly or Incorrectly he probably only wants a factory ride. I think his results (not just this years) probably don't justify this but I'm pretty sure that's how he feels. So, available factory rides. 1 at Honda (and yes I realize that if rule stays this number is 2): Pedrosa is the front runner, if not Crutchlow from outside and Bradl or Bautista from inside. Spies may be slightly ahead of Rossi as an outsider but is firmly behind Crutchlow. 1 at Yamaha. Crutchlow and Dovi are clearly ahead from the inside and Rossi would easily be preferred to Spies. He would perform better and without a doubt would sell more bikes. Not to mention the sponsorship he would undoubtedly bring. So that leaves 2 at Ducati: They love Hayden (rightfully so) and I don't see him getting offers elsewhere (though he probably deserves a shot). So that leaves a seat at Ducati. They are already talking to Cal, Rossi may get really drunk or lose his mind and stay. I personally hope not. So does Spies go to Ducati? If he wants to kill his career, yes. Are they looking at him? Maybe. They are for sure looking at Iannone and a couple others from Moto2. Iannone is italian, probably gives him a leg up on Spies. So that's the factories covered. Satellite? Don't think he's interested. Not sure their is room if he is. Tech3 has either Cal or Dovi or both. They have a ridiculous contract with Bradley Smith to move up. Don't think that is a good idea but may happen. How about a Honda? Bradl has a two year contract with LCR. Bautista has clearly outperformed Spies so... Ducati? They aren't sure if they will have satellite teams next year. Where does that leave Spies?
WSBK? AMA? I'm not sure that he has EARNED a continued MotoGP ride. But as I said earlier Yamaha America may push and give money so he can stay. We'll see.

If he keeps his factory ride I hope that Dovi or Cal Tweets about the injustice that kept him there.

[mcarthd26]

It's unfortunate that you've got to mix facts with personally derisive comments like this. None of this was about entitlement nor specifically the fact that Spies is an American. It's about the rights-holder, Dorna, playing with the rules to match their whims, which in turn calls into question the integrity of the premier motorcycle racing class. Personally, I think the rule was a dumb one to begin with, but the removal of it to suit a particular rider or team is shady.

This is exactly what Spies tweet is about. "sometimes I guess we need a diff passport?"

Where in this is confusing? He seems to think it's about being an american. You point out that "another Spanish rider" Bautista got a factory ride as a Rookie. And that the only one that didn't was poor old Mr. Spies, the american.

Wasn't meant to be a personal attack. Reading it I can see how it could look that, for that I'm sorry. This country and many who reside here have this sense of "being the best" and "deserving the best" when it's not a positive approach to life.

[DorJammer]

[QUOTE= This country and many who reside here have this sense of "being the best" and "deserving the best" when it's not a positive approach to life.[/QUOTE]


You Sir are obviously a communist!

[kawasakirob]

Is not having Repsol sponsorship for 1 season a big deal? Hmmm... They have sponsored him since he went pro..... They have been the primary sponsor for every bike he has ridden.... He went through their rider development program.... And the teams he would go to are directly sponsored by RIVAL companies.... You're right, probably not a big deal.

.

I understand he's been with them his whole pro career blah blah blah, and in order to move to Moto GP and stay with them things have to be changed blah blah blah. It's just unfortunate decisions have to be made this way in such an unjust fashion. Hopefully the rule will stay the same for years to come and not be put back into place once this whole fiasco is over, and hopefully if Spies loses his ride with the yam factory he will stay in the series... He definetly has the talent.

[Ted]

I personally will like to see Spies battle it out with Hayes in AMA but we all know that ain't gonna happen .

[tecknojoe]

I personally will like to see Spies battle it out with Hayes in AMA but we all know that ain't gonna happen .

I'll be damned if hayes didn't impress the fuck out of everyone on his guest ride in GP last year. I don't know why he isn't out there on something

I vaguely remember an article a year or two ago where he said he's too old for that

[Ted]

^I hope he at least gets something from WSBK. Seems like he needs to move on.

[tecknojoe]

^I hope he at least gets something from WSBK. Seems like he needs to move on.

I'm not sure. If he's too old for motogp i think he meant he's too old for a world tour. ama might be it

[bluedogok]

This is exactly what Spies tweet is about. "sometimes I guess we need a diff passport?"

Where in this is confusing? He seems to think it's about being an american. You point out that "another Spanish rider" Bautista got a factory ride as a Rookie. And that the only one that didn't was poor old Mr. Spies, the american.

I think his statement as implying more that not having a Spanish passport was the issue for many and not just for Spies, not just having a US passport. Having Spanish oil company sponsorship has a lot to do with how things work with DORNA, the organizer being based in Spain and it doesn't hurt when it comes to making those connections work. The Spanish can be much worse than Texans when it come to the country/state "pride" thing. It seemed like towards the end of Hayden's time with Repsol they were favoring Pedrosa even though at the time Hayden was outperforming him. They seemed to basically let Pedrosa's management run the team, especially after Burgess left with Rossi.

The whole "rookie rule" for MotoGP reminds me of the "one and done" rule for the NBA, some teams take the chance for the one year and others stay away. I can understand it even more so in MotoGP where these guys have entire teams (entourage) and sponsorship dollars that travel with them that a satellite team might not want the disruptive nature that something like that could possibly cause.

[mcarthd26]

From my favorite MotoGP journalist.
In the paddock, in the know; "The dropping of the rule caused a lot of muttering about Spanish favoritism and Marquez having "the right passport." Ironically, some of those complaints came from Ben Spies and Colin Edwards, two riders whose position in the Yamaha factory team was down to a very large extent to the backing they received from Yamaha USA, who wanted American riders - riders with "the right passport" - on the factory team." -David Emmett