2013 600's - what are the rumors?

[spideyrdr]

It's been a hard week, folks. I am fried and dried - and there are a shitload of people who have had a worse week than I. Eff. This. It's not high on the priority list, but let's talk rumors.

The middleweights as a class are getting long in the tooth. What are the odds of a new R6? CBR600RR? ZX-6R? GSXR-600? BNG doesn't cut it this year - let's see some new machines, something (r)evolutionary or at least catch the fuck up (Honda, I am looking at you). Who is coming out with 600c's of two-wheeled Viagra next year?

So, in the sake of opening up some speculative dialog, what do you got?

[Wrider]

I keep waiting for Yamaha to come out with a crossplane R6.

Wonder who is gonna be the first with TC on a 600?

[spideyrdr]

I keep waiting for Yamaha to come out with a crossplane R6.

Wonder who is gonna be the first with TC on a 600?

Selectable maps, I'm in favor. TC on a stock middleweight seems like overkill, IMHO. But you're thinking, and I like that.

[spideyrdr]

Exhausts:
ZX-6R needs to drop the ghastly exhaust. That thing couldn't be more obtrusive. I LOVE the undertail exhaust, hard to say if the CBR600RR would retain it due to mass centralization, but to me it's a fantastic look. R6 has the low slung thing working without it looking like a Lego (the Kawi).

[TransNone13]

I agree with you, the shit's getting old. I would expect Yamaha or Honda to revamp, but it's hard times so who knows?

[Ghost]

Honda will not revise the 600rr until the economy improves...

[WolFeYeZ]

I keep waiting for Yamaha to come out with a crossplane R6.

It has been said time and again that the R6 will NEVER get crossplane

[TransNone13]

It has been said time and again that the R6 will NEVER get crossplane

They also said the Earth was flat. Cater to your consumers or fail.

[Ghost]

They also said the Earth was flat. Cater to your consumers or fail.

True, but for the development cost you'll never see it...

[TransNone13]

True, but for the development cost you'll never see it...

I still don't believe that, the R6 is definitely one of the most popular bikes.

[Ghost]

I still don't believe that, the R6 is definitely one of the most popular bikes.

600s are "loss leaders", they're meant to the cheap "entry level" (at least here) sport bike, they're designed to, for, and by budgets and bean counters as much as by engineers.

Honda could have introduced a new 600RR years ago, or at least added a slipper or BPFs & Brembos, but corporate profits preclude it, same for flat-plane R6s, they could do it, but they never will, budget trumps all in the 600s, and popularity is a double-edged sword--since they're selling well as-is, that justifies their lack of change, as it's "not needed".

[TransNone13]

600s are "loss leaders", they're meant to the cheap "entry level" (at least here) sport bike, they're designed to, for, and by budgets and bean counters as much as by engineers.

Honda could have introduced a new 600RR years ago, or at least added a slipper or BPFs & Brembos, but corporate profits preclude it, same for flat-plane R6s, they could do it, but they never will, budget trumps all in the 600s, and popularity is a double-edged sword--since they're selling well as-is, that justifies their lack of change, as it's "not needed".

That's not the philosophy I'd expect from an aggressive company who wants to take charge and lead the market. That's complacent. And honestly, why I've gone to superbikes. I know there, they sell the bike as intended.

[spideyrdr]

Tough times or not, Honda is way behind on what is the norm in the middleweight class while still MSRP'ing at or above the other inline 4's, if I am not mistaken.

Bear in mind I am salivating over the prospect of getting a new race bike down the line, and some shit should just COME on a modern 600. Slipper clutch? Come the fuck on. If it doesn't come stock, you can't race with one in many classes. No one appears to even be ON a Honda in the AMA Daytona Sportbike class. It's R6's and Gixxers with just a couple of Daytona's and Kawi's. Maybe Honda's given up on racing in the US because there are more than a few in the World Supersport class, but it doesn't seem like they are gaining any exposure in the US on a platform that's so damn far behind

[TransNone13]

Tough times or not, Honda is way behind on what is the norm in the middleweight class while still MSRP'ing at or above the other inline 4's, if I am not mistaken.

Bear in mind I am salivating over the prospect of getting a new race bike down the line, and some shit should just COME on a modern 600. Slipper clutch? Come the fuck on. If it doesn't come stock, you can't race with one in many classes. No one appears to even be ON a Honda in the AMA Daytona Sportbike class. It's R6's and Gixxers with just a couple of Daytona's and Kawi's. Maybe Honda's given up on racing in the US because there are more than a few in the World Supersport class, but it doesn't seem like they are gaining any exposure in the US on a platform that's so damn far behind

I noticed that years ago. Honda needs to step it up!

[spideyrdr]

I'd disagree that the 600's, especially aging ones, are "loss leaders". Here are your MSRP's

CBR600RR - $11540
CBR1000RR - $13800

ZX-6R - $10300
ZX-10R- $14300

R6 - $10890
R1 - $13990

GSX-R600 - $11599
GSX-R1000 - $13799

The 600's are not far from the liter bikes within the same brand, and the Honda, the old-ass Honda CBR600RR, is almost the most expensive MSRP, only trailing Suzuki by a few bucks. I like the Honda, I am not beating it up - but who in their right mind is going to walk into a dealership and lay down more cash (compared to Kawi and Yamaha or just one take-out dinner from the price of a Suzuki) for a bike that is now much further behind in terms of technical advancements compared to the rivals?

[TransNone13]

yeah, that's outrageous

[Ghost]

That's not the philosophy I'd expect from an aggressive company who wants to take charge and lead the market. That's complacent. And honestly, why I've gone to superbikes. I know there, they sell the bike as intended.

I noticed that years ago. Honda needs to step it up!

Once people like Tadao Baba retired, the company became more concerned with bottom-line and profits than being cutting-edge, and that's shown in their pattern of fiscal conservatism over taking risks or pushing new products...

I passed on the 600RR when it first came out since I assumed the 09 Refresh would get the slipper. But when I talked to the rep (I was still at the dealership then) and he basically said that this gen will never get one due to costs I gave in and bought one despite really wanting a slipper--just like lots of others still buy it now despite it being an "ancient" bike introduced back in 2007 and likely to remain unchanged until 2015...

I agree that it needs changes, but every sale proves me wrong and the bean counters right. Add in Honda's near-abandonment of racing factory 600s and you can see why they don't care...

Liter bikes are wholly different, as flagships for the brand and with higher price-points and generally more affluent buyers they tend to get more changes more often, but even there the CBR1000RR is an old design, lacks TCS, and isn't cutting-edge by any means...

[spideyrdr]

I agree that it needs changes, but every sale proves me wrong and the bean counters right.

A valid, well-put comment, sir. You're right, people do still buy 'em and they aren't rolling shit-boxes by any stretch.

Part of me feels like the refresh cycle these companies got in during the 2000's killed them. A lot of smart, daring engineers probably said "Eff this!" and got out of the biz before they got an ulcer.

I am still hoping for some sweet-ass rides to hit showrooms in 2013. I realize global emission regulations are also probably killing the development of new sportbikes in general, and the costs to come out with an all-new model have to be crushing. But, recently Honda has put out some massive turds (DN-01 anyone?) and Yamaha came out with the FZ6R and FZ8 at a time when no one would have guessed a NEW model was what the market needed. Development dollars (or Yen) are not completely gone. The sportbikes still sell, the manufacturers still have honor and like to brag, and the 600's are aching for some love. A guy can dream, right?

[TransNone13]

Yeah pretty sure the 1000rr is the most behind the power curve.

[maktastik_jr.]

I am still hoping for some sweet-ass rides to hit showrooms in 2013. I realize global emission regulations are also probably killing the development of new sportbikes in general, and the costs to come out with an all-new model have to be crushing. But, recently Honda has put out some massive turds (DN-01 anyone?) and Yamaha came out with the FZ6R and FZ8 at a time when no one would have guessed a NEW model was what the market needed. Development dollars (or Yen) are not completely gone. The sportbikes still sell, the manufacturers still have honor and like to brag, and the 600's are aching for some love. A guy can dream, right?

yep. the DN-01 was a steaming turd. anybody get a chance to ride the 2012 CB1000? Im pretty sure we (interstate honda) had the only one in the state but im not sure.

[Ghost]

A valid, well-put comment, sir. You're right, people do still buy 'em and they aren't rolling shit-boxes by any stretch.

Part of me feels like the refresh cycle these companies got in during the 2000's killed them. A lot of smart, daring engineers probably said "Eff this!" and got out of the biz before they got an ulcer.

I am still hoping for some sweet-ass rides to hit showrooms in 2013. I realize global emission regulations are also probably killing the development of new sportbikes in general, and the costs to come out with an all-new model have to be crushing. But, recently Honda has put out some massive turds (DN-01 anyone?) and Yamaha came out with the FZ6R and FZ8 at a time when no one would have guessed a NEW model was what the market needed. Development dollars (or Yen) are not completely gone. The sportbikes still sell, the manufacturers still have honor and like to brag, and the 600's are aching for some love. A guy can dream, right?

The Dollar-to-Yen value inversion is the real killer. Back when the Dollar was stronger it was much easier to offset development costs, a strong Yen & weak Dollar reduce per-vehicle profits and make changes more costly and less likely...

But, like you, I do dream of V5 sport bikes, Brembos, and other goodness... Then I wake up and go ride my RR and (when it's not puking fuel) it's not a bad bike...

Yeah pretty sure the 1000rr is the most behind the power curve.

Yep. Power and gimmicks like TCS, Anti-wheelie, etc...

[vort3xr6]

Rumor has it that BMW is developing a 600 or 750.

I would love to see a 600cc 130hp bike out of BMW. Shit will sell like the lumberjack slam at Denny's.

[VFR]

2012 CBR1KRR won the Cycle World Shoot out.....Beating the Kawi, Yami, and BMW on the track with Eric Bostrom at the helm of all. All even had tech's for set up. I like what they do with the Honda....No here I am to save your ass technology it puts all the ownes on the rider. The Free Balance Shock looks interesting

Honda doesn't care about racing other than MotoGP/2/3.....Streets they like to give the minimum because like stated here, they sale...

That DN-01 was just wordless and they totally jacked up the VFR...Great engine hideous body work Sweet paint jobs though

[VFR]

Dollar for Dollar.....This is the winner in my eyes