Loud Pipes

[Spiderman]

So if a motorcycle is running in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does is still make sound?????

That depends, is it a stock exhaust, slip-on, or full-system? And what RPM is the engine at? idle or WOT?

[birchyboy]

That depends, is it a stock exhaust, slip-on, or full-system?

Oh sorry, it's an electric bike

[CaptGoodvibes]

I'm putting baseball cards in my spokes when the day comes that I am forced to ride an electric bike.

[Darth Do'Urden]

But with an electric bike you could hook some speakers and a small music player and then play whatever exhaust note you wanted to at whatever volume your heart desires. What's cooler than customizable exhaust sounds?!? You could download 'em like ringtones. =P

[birchyboy]

But with an electric bike you could hook some speakers and a small music player and then play whatever exhaust note you wanted to at whatever volume your heart desires. What's cooler than customizable exhaust sounds?!? You could download 'em like ringtones. =P

Did you ever see the movie The Dilemma with Kevin James? Their company tried to market that to Detroit.

[Darth Do'Urden]

Did you ever see the movie The Dilemma with Kevin James? Their company tried to market that to Detroit.

LOL...never heard of the movie. Someone beat me to the stupid idea. Figures. =P

[The GECCO]

So if a motorcycle is running in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does is still make sound?????

No, it doesn't. It may vibrate the air, but those vibrations don't become sound until they stimulate an ear drum and are interpreted by a brain.

No eardrum, no sound.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it

[kawasakirob]

http://virginiawind.com/byways/loud_...save_lives.asp

[Darth Do'Urden]

^^
Exactly. Though in all fairness of what's been said, there was yet again a lack of empirical data. One would need to measure db readings in front and behind the bike at a stand still at varying distances, then again with the bike in motion. This would scientifically prove what both I and the author of the article stated: the supposed "safety noise" is being emitted directly in the opposite direction of the much more likely dangers, thereby rendering such an argument invalid.

[dirkterrell]

Not sure why it's hard to understand.

Probably because I spent a few years getting degrees in physics.

An object that is moving forward that is producing sound that is being directed BEHIND said object that is traveling at any type of speed over 40mph (a guesstimation, I don't have empirical data on this point) is traveling IN FRONT OF said sound. Ergo, said sound will not be heard until the source of said sound (in this case the exhaust can) is nearly parallel with the listener.

Your basic premise is correct on not hearing the sound from a moving object, but the speed required to do what you're saying is the speed of sound. Sound expands in a spherical pattern, so you will hear the bike from the front. There is a funneling effect due to the pipes that will make it louder from behind, but to say that you will not hear the bike at all from the front is wrong. The louder the sound coming out of the pipes, the louder it will sound from any direction, including from the front.

Now, I'm not arguing that we should be running open pipes. There are many good reasons for not doing so. But arguing that you don't hear a moving bike from the front is not a good reason. It is flat wrong.

[Darth Do'Urden]

I'm not arguing that you absolutely will not hear any sound at all from the front. What I'm arguing is the effectiveness of that lower amount of sound in regards to safety and actual road conditions.

[dirkterrell]

I'm not arguing that you absolutely will not hear any sound at all from the front.

That's not what you said:

Not sure why it's hard to understand. An object that is moving forward that is producing sound that is being directed BEHIND said object that is traveling at any type of speed over 40mph (a guesstimation, I don't have empirical data on this point) is traveling IN FRONT OF said sound. Ergo, said sound will not be heard until the source of said sound (in this case the exhaust can) is nearly parallel with the listener.

and

no one actually hears your damn pipes until you are ALREADY PAST THEM.

That's why I responded. As I said, I don't think ultra loud pipes are a good idea for other reasons, but the statements above are not correct and therefore are a poor response to the argument that we should have loud pipes.

[FZRguy]

I want one of these: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php

[Darth Do'Urden]

Since the generalization was not acceptable, let me clarify....

Sitting all snug as a bug in a rug in your car or truck with the windows up (as the vast majority of people are wont to do, even in the nice spring and fall days) and the AC blasting and the radio playing (even at a moderate volume) while you cruise happily down the road (or even stopped at an intersection), the sound of an obnoxious noise maker is not going to be heard to any appreciable level as to justify the mentality and practice of LPSL.

People put loud pipes on their bike because THEY like the way it sounds, and the rest of humanity be damned, all under the guise of trying to be "safe". It's a bullshit argument to justify one's selfishness at the sake of all other riders and the public perception. Yeah, bikers are awesome. Thanks for that.

I want one of these: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php

I wouldn't mind having one, but not for what they charge, also keeping in mind that one needs to have an extra battery if one plans on playing for longer than an hour or so. Even then, the recharge time is longer than the useable time, so after the second battery your first one still isn't fully charged, so your time is further reduced, and so on and so on with each session. In my opinion, the tech is still too expensive to warrant getting one.

[FZRguy]

There's no extra battery on a Zero S. The current motor is designed to last 205,000 miles on the less powerful ZF6 (ZF9 will run 308,000 miles). Range is up to 76 and 114 miles respectively. Charge time can be cut to less than 2 hours on the ZF6 with the accessory charger (standard charge time is 6 hours). Suspension is fully adjustable with inverted front fork and direct link shock. Brakes have been updated to moto spec with the 2012 model. Aluminum frame and swingarm, 17" cast wheels, no maint belt final drive, 297 lbs. for the ZF6. Retail is $11,495 and you can expect around $5,000 in federal and state tax credits. Obviously not for touring with the limited range, but I want one for around town and to ride the local canyons in a stealth like manner.

[Darth Do'Urden]

Sorry, didn't notice you specifically linked to the S. The dirt bike models don't have quite that longevity, so having an extra battery around to swap out would be desirable for a couple hours of play.

And I wasn't aware of the $5000 kickback, though that's not immediate, but rather the next year when you file taxes. Still, it does eventually take out some of the sting of spending the equivalent of a Ducati Monster 1100 EVO on an electric bike. I still think the tech is too expensive to be worth it right now.

And I found your comment about riding stealthily in this thread to be hilarious. =)

[Ghost]

Fwiw, this is the first bike where I've kept the stock exhaust on.

Mostly it was because I wanted to find a GP-style or and under-bike exhaust to get rid of the underseat exhaust on the 600RR. Of course, those aren't easy to find since most manufacturers just make an underseat for the RR and call it good. I debated custom-fabricating something, but that seemed like a PITA.

But, I have to say that I've slowly decided that don't really miss a loud exhaust.

I can roll through small, quiet mountain towns without everyone giving me the stink eye. I can run up canyons without the cops hearing me the entire way up, and I can sneak into my neighborhood after riding all day without annoying the neighbors--one of whom has a bike with a loud exhaust, and while I don't personally care, I can definitely see how others would find it annoying that you can't hear the tv or radio or whatever within your house until it passes.

Has my lack of loud pipes endangered me? Not any more than normal. It's not that people cannot hear you that's the issue, it's that they cannot SEE you even IF they look for you.

Someone sitting in a car might (or might not) hear a "strange noise", or a "loud noise" but that doesn't help them notice YOU. I was a passenger in a car when a loud V-twin bike came up on us and the driver leaned forward and looked UP to see where the helicopter/plane was...

Riding my old Micron-piped (full system) bike never made anyone NOT cut me off, NOT move over into my lane, or NOT do any of the stupid fucking shit drivers do that nearly killed me every time they did it. I've seen no real change in driver behavior with my new bike and its stock exhaust. I DO notice that my High Beam seems to be more effective than my Low, as turning the HB on seems to keep more people over in their lane when I'm approaching--but the exhaust? Doesn't seem to matter at all.

I still find HD straight pipes to be the most ear-splittingly obnoxious, but I don't think loud sport bikes really do much other than sound cool to the rider and, probably, piss everyone else off.

If driver's aren't able to SEE you then it doesn't matter if they can hear you or not, and even if they hear the noise, it doesn't seem to make them any more aware of your presence until you're right next to them--and then it's too late anyway.

[Darth Do'Urden]

I DO notice that my High Beam seems to be more effective than my Low, as turning the HB on seems to keep more people over in their lane when I'm approaching--

I've noticed this as well with the highbeams (during the day only, of course). With my Speed Triple (RIP), it had a Flash To Pass button that would use to flicker my lights to oncoming traffic when I approached an intersection with left-turners. While not an everyday necessity or constant life saver, the flickering lights certainly helped keep a few people cognizant of my oncoming presence.

[Zanatos]

I've heard rumors about CSC'ers and their loud "tail pipes."

[Stuart Little]

Did you ever see the movie The Dilemma with Kevin James? Their company tried to market that to Detroit.

I believe some car companies are doing that because it's required by law (or will be soon) for electric cars to output a noise. How do they think deaf people work/exist? Then again I subscribe to this thought, knowledge is knowing a street is one way, wisdom is looking both ways anyways.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2012/04/09...ectric-models/

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...m-or-not-vroom

[Wrider]

I believe some car companies are doing that because it's required by law (or will be soon) for electric cars to output a noise. How do they think deaf people work/exist?

It's got nothing to do with deaf people, it's got everything to do with blind people. It's kinda hard to notice a very very quiet vehicle as you cross the road when you can't see it coming. And you know how well car drivers pay attention to pedestrians and basically anyone else on the road...

[stubbicatt]

The Hurt Report I believe put this theory to bed with respect to low frequency sound. Apparently the human ear can hear low frequencies, but cannot pinpoint them as it can with the higher frequencies.

Ferinstance, I can hear the obnoxious low rev, V twin, exhaust which has been modified while I am in traffic, but cannot pinpoint it very well.

The Darth experience is one I have had as well, although it is a volume rather than not audible issue. As the loud bikes are behind me, if I am traveling highway speed or the like, I can sense that they are there, but not until they get in front of me or are beside me in traffic does the full flavor of noxiousness enter my spectrum.

[Ghost]

The Hurt Report I believe put this theory to bed with respect to low frequency sound. Apparently the human ear can hear low frequencies, but cannot pinpoint them as it can with the higher frequencies.

Ferinstance, I can hear the obnoxious low rev, V twin, exhaust which has been modified while I am in traffic, but cannot pinpoint it very well.

The Darth experience is one I have had as well, although it is a volume rather than not audible issue. As the loud bikes are behind me, if I am traveling highway speed or the like, I can sense that they are there, but not until they get in front of me or are beside me in traffic does the full flavor of noxiousness enter my spectrum.

It's also why you only need one subwoofer for your home theater--LFE is essentially omnidirectional.

[stubbicatt]

It's also why you only need one subwoofer for your home theater--LFE is essentially omnidirectional.

Kind of brings an unasked question to mind: perhaps if the obnoxiosity of the low frequency exhaust were mandatorily re-modulated to higher frequency by the installation of old, VW, air cooled, bug "tweeter" exhausts, those guys on the Harleys would in fact be safer, as it would advertise their presence nearby, as would a pink jacket and a "Hello Kitty" basket on their handlebars.





... Just a thought.

I know that I for one would definitely notice this in traffic.