now this is riot control.

[#1Townie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH8T8...e_gdata_player

[Wrider]

Obviously staged, but great training for future riots.

[TransNone13]

How do you know? You weren't there?

lol

[Wrider]

Lol no but I know a guy who knows a guy who has a cousin who is in a car club with a guy whose girlfriend's dog's groomer's cousin was there...

[Dietrich_R1]

I would hardly call that a riot! Let's see how they do when there are 100 riot police & a Riot of 1000! Their lines would get Flanked the hell out of!!

[#1Townie]

No its not the whole riot its just the aggressors that want confrontation. Its designed to pick off the problem and remove it from the equation. Not to take down a 1000 people. Its very organized and its sad to see a place like korea to figure this out over how cops even in the us do it. No tear gas. No shooting people.

[bulldog]

I would hardly call that a riot! Let's see how they do when there are 100 riot police & a Riot of 1000! Their lines would get Flanked the hell out of!!

+1!

Obviously staged and I highly doubt it would be that effective in a real situation. Throw like one moltov cocktail into that mass of guards and such easy targets.

F*ck that use tear gas; so effective to disperse a crowd and no officers have to risk themselves with hand to hand combat! I don't care how tough you are you will run from tear gas. People want to riot then I don't feel bad for them....

[#1Townie]

I bet it will work very well. Care to explain your your gas theory again? If it works so well then why doesnt it? Ohhhhh thats right because they are wearing gas masks now.

[Rider]

FYI teargas is not really all its cracked out to be, once exposed long enough it doesn't do shit to you.

[bulldog]

I bet it will work very well. Care to explain your your gas theory again? If it works so well then why doesnt it? Ohhhhh thats right because they are wearing gas masks now.

Every riot type situation I have been in, it worked great. Huge fight at a rap concert once and there was no hope of breaking this up when at least 20 people were fighting. One shot of tear gas and the entire place emptied out in seconds.

Another time a gang riot broke out for the Santa Fe fiesta's and 3 people got shot while cops tried to break it up. Again, a few tear gasses and gang fight broke right up. Like I said you can be the toughest person out there and highly doubt you can still funtion after being gassed.

True I guess they could bring gas masks, but then again they could just bring bazzokas too; in those cases of a organzied riot may be harder but not sure how often that occurs. I think most riots occur without real planning just a lot of people pissed about something; like sport team losing.

FYI teargas is not really all its cracked out to be, once exposed long enough it doesn't do shit to you.

Care to test this out? I am sure it could be arranged and made as a cool CSC video


EDIT: Did some research and claims "The effects of exposure to tear gas are usually short-lived (30-60 minutes) after the person has been removed from the source and cleaned off (decontaminated)."

So yeah if you think 30-60 minutes is a short time, but that is plenty enought time to break up a riot. And then if you are not smart enough to get away you get this:


Long-lasting exposure (over an hour) or exposure to a large dose of tear gas, especially in an enclosed setting, may cause severe effects such as:

• • Blindness
• • Glaucoma (a serious eye condition that can lead to blindness)
• • Death due to serious chemical burns to the throat and lungs
• • Respiratory (breathing) failure possibly resulting in death

[#1Townie]

Every riot type situation I have been in, it worked great. Huge fight at a rap concert once and there was no hope of breaking this up when at least 20 people were fighting. One shot of tear gas and the entire place emptied out in seconds.

Another time a gang riot broke out for the Santa Fe fiesta's and 3 people got shot while cops tried to break it up. Again, a few tear gasses and gang fight broke right up. Like I said you can be the toughest person out there and highly doubt you can still funtion after being gassed.

True I guess they could bring gas masks, but then again they could just bring bazzokas too; in those cases of a organzied riot may be harder but not sure how often that occurs. I think most riots occur without real planning just a lot of people pissed about something; like sport team losing.



Care to test this out? I am sure it could be arranged and made as a cool CSC video

Okay man im not going to flame you but saying rocket launchers and gas masks go hand in hand. You need to go do a little searching and you will see how many of these trouble groups DO bring gas masks. This tactic is not to subdue thousands of people its to combat groups like the anarchists without causing harm to the peaceful protesters. Its why i respect it so much. Meet the force attacking and not lumping everyone into the same book.

Time and time again police are accused of mis handling crowd control. Innocent people being tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets. Even people killed. Organization like this would bring crowd control to a whole new level. The part i really like about what the koreans did here is they looked at their past and train for some of their more difficult situations. Like the protest when they had to fight their own vets. The vets pulled out those makeshift flame throwers.


The koreans didnt make this stuff ip. They are taking a page out of the greeks war stories and using to their advantage. Im sure we can all say the battle of 300 is a perfect example of how very few can fight off a mass. This was a training exercise and from the formation it looks like they would be funneling masses into a bottle neck. Its why when that formation is all the way back its so grouped together. Coming out in short strategic burst to round up issues and then dropping back. This kind of high organization would be devastating to a group like the anarchist.

[bulldog]

Okay man im not going to flame you but saying rocket launchers and gas masks go hand in hand. You need to go do a little searching and you will see how many of these trouble groups DO bring gas masks. This tactic is not to subdue thousands of people its to combat groups like the anarchists without causing harm to the peaceful protesters. Its why i respect it so much. Meet the force attacking and not lumping everyone into the same book.

Time and time again police are accused of mis handling crowd control. Innocent people being tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets. Even people killed. Organization like this would bring crowd control to a whole new level. The part i really like about what the koreans did here is they looked at their past and train for some of their more difficult situations. Like the protest when they had to fight their own vets. The vets pulled out those makeshift flame throwers.


The koreans didnt make this stuff ip. They are taking a page out of the greeks war stories and using to their advantage. Im sure we can all say the battle of 300 is a perfect example of how very few can fight off a mass. This was a training exercise and from the formation it looks like they would be funneling masses into a bottle neck. Its why when that formation is all the way back its so grouped together. Coming out in short strategic burst to round up issues and then dropping back. This kind of high organization would be devastating to a group like the anarchist.

Yeah maybe they do bring gas mask now (I didn't know that), so in that case tear gas would not be effective. Really didn't meant this type of training is not good or productive, but in some riots I guess I don't feel bad for the people because what they are doing they know is wrong. Of course there are exceptions

And maybe I am a wuss, but when I got tear gassed I couldn't breathe until I got away from that. I literally coughed for minutes while every pore burned and my eyes teared up so bad I could barely see. And I've been gassed twice and same effect.

[Rider]

Every riot type situation I have been in, it worked great. Huge fight at a rap concert once and there was no hope of breaking this up when at least 20 people were fighting. One shot of tear gas and the entire place emptied out in seconds.

Another time a gang riot broke out for the Santa Fe fiesta's and 3 people got shot while cops tried to break it up. Again, a few tear gasses and gang fight broke right up. Like I said you can be the toughest person out there and highly doubt you can still funtion after being gassed.

True I guess they could bring gas masks, but then again they could just bring bazzokas too; in those cases of a organzied riot may be harder but not sure how often that occurs. I think most riots occur without real planning just a lot of people pissed about something; like sport team losing.



Care to test this out? I am sure it could be arranged and made as a cool CSC video


EDIT: Did some research and claims "The effects of exposure to tear gas are usually short-lived (30-60 minutes) after the person has been removed from the source and cleaned off (decontaminated)."

So yeah if you think 30-60 minutes is a short time, but that is plenty enought time to break up a riot. And then if you are not smart enough to get away you get this:


Long-lasting exposure (over an hour) or exposure to a large dose of tear gas, especially in an enclosed setting, may cause severe effects such as:

• • Blindness
• • Glaucoma (a serious eye condition that can lead to blindness)
• • Death due to serious chemical burns to the throat and lungs
• • Respiratory (breathing) failure possibly resulting in death

Testing not needed as i have been exposed to it plenty of times, your statistics are pulled form the internet (which never lies) so i am not inclined to think you are a credible expert on this and i am willing to bet you have not been exposed to it. During a riot you are not going to be exposed to a highly concentrated dose of the tear gas, as its usually in an open street so you could stand there all day long and you aren't going to get the long lasting effects, that is in the case you were in an enclosed room. I have met people who can walk right through a cloud of tear gas that has just been released from a can and not even blink. The body can build a tolerance in a matter of minutes.

[bulldog]

Testing not needed as i have been exposed to it plenty of times, your statistics are pulled form the internet (which never lies) so i am not inclined to think you are a credible expert on this and i am willing to bet you have not been exposed to it. During a riot you are not going to be exposed to a highly concentrated dose of the tear gas, as its usually in an open street so you could stand there all day long and you aren't going to get the long lasting effects, that is in the case you were in an enclosed room. I have met people who can walk right through a cloud of tear gas that has just been released from a can and not even blink. The body can build a tolerance in a matter of minutes.

So you ARE willing to test this then? Let me know when and I will personally set it up.

And not all riots happen outdoors. Like I said I was exposed at a indoor rap concert!

Oh and here was my source, New York Public Health http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/bt/bt_fact_tear.shtml

[Wrider]

Eh I've known several people that were basically immune to tear gas. Some had just been exposed to it enough that it didn't bother them anymore, and others it never bothered in the first place.

[#1Townie]

Yeah maybe they do bring gas mask now (I didn't know that), so in that case tear gas would not be effective. Really didn't meant this type of training is not good or productive, but in some riots I guess I don't feel bad for the people because what they are doing they know is wrong. Of course there are exceptions

And maybe I am a wuss, but when I got tear gassed I couldn't breathe until I got away from that. I literally coughed for minutes while every pore burned and my eyes teared up so bad I could barely see. And I've been gassed twice and same effect.

They deserve it? I mean that is basically what you just said. If you dont go along with government/police blindly you deserve to be shot, beat and tear gassed?

Bro im not talking about the thugs running a muck after a concert. Im not talking about a bunch of fools who got drunk at a game and decided to tear the town apart. Im talking about the things like the so called occupied riots. Peaceful protesters who get screwed because a small group if idiots take advantage of the situation.

Tactics like this weed out the trouble makers and allow for peaceful protests to carry on. But yeah i guess it wouldnt work because our police forces dont give a shit about its people. To them we are the sheep and we need to blindly follow their rules. Doesnt matter if its legal or not.

Really man your kind of thinking scares the crap out of me.

Lets look at it this way. 10000 people show up to protest lets say ndaa. 200 of them become violent. The way police deal with this now is by opening fire into the crowed with rubber bullets and tear gas on the whole 10000. So now instead of just dealing with the actual instigators they have now lead a full on attack on 10000 people. So now instead of 200just you are now facing thousands of pissed off people. Does this logic actually make any sense?

[bulldog]

They deserve it? I mean that is basically what you just said. If you dont go along with government/police blindly you deserve to be shot, beat and tear gassed?

Bro im not talking about the thugs running a muck after a concert. Im not talking about a bunch of fools who got drunk at a game and decided to tear the town apart. Im talking about the things like the so called occupied riots. Peaceful protesters who get screwed because a small group if idiots take advantage of the situation.

Tactics like this weed out the trouble makers and allow for peaceful protests to carry on. But yeah i guess it wouldnt work because our police forces dont give a shit about its people. To them we are the sheep and we need to blindly follow their rules. Doesnt matter if its legal or not.

Really man your kind of thinking scares the crap out of me.

Lets look at it this way. 10000 people show up to protest lets say ndaa. 200 of them become violent. The way police deal with this now is by opening fire into the crowed with rubber bullets and tear gas on the whole 10000. So now instead of just dealing with the actual instigators they have now lead a full on attack on 10000 people. So now instead of 200just you are now facing thousands of pissed off people. Does this logic actually make any sense?

Well I did say "there are exceptions" in my post so yeah what you described is one of them. I'm thinking more of a riot as not a "Peaceful protest", but as the events I experienced where two rival gangs were causing a huge riot. So in the case I experienced the two rival gangs shot at each other and hit 2 innocent people so for that situation I could care less if they gassed these thugs as they didn't care when they were shooting into a packed crowd.

So what is your solution? You feel hand to hand combat is more effective? I guess I feel bad for the officers who have to put themsleves on the line in that tactic as usually they are outnumbered. Not saying I have the answer though at all.....


P.S. I appreciate the debate instead of flaming me Townie. Like you I am mostly just finding ways to make my workday go by faster so a lot of it is just friendly talk or stirring the pot so people will at least post. Nothing worse than seeing a forum where nobodys posts for 30 minutes. Speaking of that, where is Grim? New job must be keeping him busy.

[mdub]

hmmmm cant wait to see number 1's link....chk it out later...

when i saw the thread the first thing that came to mind was a fire truck spraying the clowns with hi pressure water....

[bulldog]

Now this is how stupid gang violence is. I was curious what happened with that Santa Fe Fiest shooting. So dumb the guy got six years in prison even though he killed one person and injuried two. Wow, only six years...wtf! There were hundreds of people in this plaza too when it broke out.....and all because of a few gang signs to rivals

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/artic...nce-given.html

[#1Townie]

Well I did say "there are exceptions" in my post so yeah what you described is one of them. I'm thinking more of a riot as not a "Peaceful protest", but as the events I experienced where two rival gangs were causing a huge riot. So in the case I experienced the two rival gangs shot at each other and hit 2 innocent people so for that situation I could care less if they gassed these thugs as they didn't care when they were shooting into a packed crowd.

So what is your solution? You feel hand to hand combat is more effective? I guess I feel bad for the officers who have to put themsleves on the line in that tactic as usually they are outnumbered. Not saying I have the answer though at all.....


P.S. I appreciate the debate instead of flaming me Townie. Like you I am mostly just finding ways to make my workday go by faster so a lot of it is just friendly talk or stirring the pot so people will at least post. Nothing worse than seeing a forum where nobodys posts for 30 minutes. Speaking of that, where is Grim? New job must be keeping him busy.

Well being that i dont consider those situations as a protest and being most protests are turned into violence by cops i will say i could care less about two groups shooting at each other. Truly in those situations you are not going to have many innocent people around. Being a organized police response will take a serous amount of time to deploy i dont think many people not involved in the situation will stick around for when police respond. But those scenarios are a little uncommon. Most shootings happen fast and are over fast. Both sides pop a few rounds off and everyone runs because they know the cops are coming.

What the video shows isnt just normal police. Its the ones that come out when a protest starts to turn. I think part of the problem we have is those police are left in front of these angry folks for too long. That was one thing i really enjoyed about the clup was all the rotation. No officer was left out there for very long. This allows for a bit of cooling off peroid. Also it singles out some of the bad apples in a safe manner for the police to arrest them with out having to use knight sticks or guns.

The biggest part to this would be the shock and aw that would come with it. Think about being on the other side of that blue line and watching them make those formations so precisely. It would catch a mob off guard. Everything in the video shows a great deal of control and training. Those are the kinds of things that will better bad situations.

So yeah man im more referring to crowed control not war control. But with that said even some of our troops were shocked when they seen how american protesters were treated by police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI2Rb...e_gdata_player

And man do some searching how much of this happened. Lots of those protests was met by force.

[#1Townie]

But really bro gang violence and crowd control have nothing to do with each other. The idea of a poluce force being unarmed doesnt bother me. They have time and time again showed they cant be trusted. I wouldnt mind special ops teams like swat and that to be armed. In a latge scale protest i dont rhink the riot cops should be armed. They have incredible body armor and shields. What are they worried about? I dont like the idea of simple officers trying to do crowd control. Again you are trying to turn one thing and make it another. Gang bangers shooting at each other is a totally different scenario. Ive never seen 10000 gang bangers having a full out war in the middle of new york. I know it happened in like the 20s or whatever but not modern days. Sure you little explosions here and there but by the time a true crowed control like the group in the video could be deployed the situation would already be over.

Yes where is grim?

[Clovis]

SPARTANS! SHIELD WALL! ON ME! ON ME!!

HOLD...THE....LIIIIIIINEEEEE!!

Looks like training - otherwise why didn't the mob just go around?

[#1Townie]

Looks like training - otherwise why didn't the mob just go around?

No shit? I thought this was a real situation. Thats why the debate in if it would work in a REAL situation.