Cops doing what they do best....

[Hoot]

In this case, no, but that's something we know after the fact. At the time, the suspect had no standing to argue or resist. Even if it is eventually found to be unlawful, he still has to comply at the time. The Officer shouldn't have done what he did, but that is something that is taken care of after, in court, administrative discipline, and criminal charges.

Had the suspect had a warrant, but that video still being identical (So Officer didn't advise him of the warrant), it would've been legal for the Officer, and suspect still resisted arrest. Now the contact was still illegal, thus he is subject to administrative discipline and potentially (Though unlikely) criminal charges, the forceful arrest was legal.

I don't know if I'm misconstruing what you're saying, but it sounds like LEO's could approach any one and simply arrest them for no reason and it is still a lawful arrest until you are able to prove them wrong later?

I appreciate that you have open discussion when it comes a professional officers point of view on these things. I am in no way anti cop as someone said earlier. I have great respect for those LEO's that are professional, ethical and moral. It just frustrates me to see the bad seeds like this one who in my opinion make your job increasingly dangerous by alienating those they serve.

I've actually signed up to participate in one of those citizen academies with the PD where I live to gain a better understanding of what LEO's jobs are like.

[Aaron]

I hate the bad cops too, trust me. And what he did certainly appears wrong.

What I'm trying to say is suspects have no right to resist or argue. You don't know the law, you don't know if you have warrants, and you may not know what he is arresting you for. Once the cop says those 3 words (You're under arrest, or put your hands behind your back), it's game over. You MUST comply, or the cop will use as much force is needed to get you to comply, even if it ends up causing you grave injury.

For example. I see Betty walking down the street. I know Betty. I wrote up a warrant on Betty for shoplifting last week. I confirm the warrant is active, it is, but she has no knowledge it is. I can legally walk up to Betty, and tell her she is under arrest, and she MUST comply. She may not have done anything wrong right this moment, but she still can't resist. If she does resist, I can force her into custody.

If a cop wants to do this without reason to average good citizen without warrants, the citizen still has no grounds to resist. But after the fact, the citizen has a damn good lawsuit that would likely end in an unemployed cop, and a large settlement.

[madvlad]

The problem is that the motorcycle riders in Dallas are doing the exact same thing. It has to be asked, what exactly are law enforcement officials to do in order to stop this behavior? Many riders, not all, in that city seem to think they are entitled to disobey the law because, due to policies such as do not pursue, they can get away with it. If this type of behavior continues, it does not bode well for ANY of us.

If riders are able to commit crimes and evade justice, eventually motorcycles will fall under the chopping block of legislation. Look at gun regulation if you need a point of reference. It only takes a few bad eggs to ruin it for the rest of us. This is something none of us should want. If motorcycles come to be considered tools for criminals to escape capture, lawmakers will be forced to act. What if Dallas enacts a motorcycle ban, how long before the state follows suit, which then leads to other states doing the same, and eventually becoming national legislation?

Most of us here understand that sometimes you have to pay to play. We try our best to improve the image of sportbike riders. We're fighting a losing war if we also have no respect for the law or its officers. A number of us have come face to face with officers that hate our hobby. It's unfair, but don't blame the cops, blame the assholes giving us a bad name. If we want to keep our sport alive, it's going to require us to remember that it is a privilege, not a right. When we're caught breaking the law, take the hit, it's only fair.

Granted, it's possible that this rider may not have done something wrong. I highly doubt it since it's a very rare rider who adheres to every rule of the road. But if he has video evidence which could help law enforcement agencies render justice to those that think they can do as they please, then I'm all for it being done.

Well I will give you that I am sure there were plenty in that group that were probably being dumb ass hell which is not acceptable but at the same time let's punish the innocent ones just to have something to show for? That makes no sense, like a person serving time for no reason which I'm sure there are plenty in the system... A motorcycle ban would be ridiculous dude, they approved weed bro that is never happening lol... The industry has massive income for states and employes people but then again you never know.

From what I gather from the video, he had no good reason at all, and that's a problem. But rude? Not at all. He should not have arrested (Or stopped for that matter), but once he made that decision, he appropriately and professionally followed through with it. Had the arrest been legal, the manner in which it was done was nearly perfect.

If he made the wrong decision then why not continue on to admitting and letting the biker go instead of making up a bullshit deal about a license plate to arrest.... seriously? That makes no sense to me, I have yet to know of anyone EVER to be arrested for such stupidity. I understand if the guy had no license or no insurance but he had all his papers and everything legal. I don't think that was right at all.

[Aaron]

If he made the wrong decision then why not continue on to admitting and letting the biker go instead of making up a bullshit deal about a license plate to arrest.... seriously? That makes no sense to me, I have yet to know of anyone EVER to be arrested for such stupidity. I understand if the guy had no license or no insurance but he had all his papers and everything legal. I don't think that was right at all.

I agree with you, completely, and I can't speak for the Officer's motivation to do what he did. May have been ignorance, arrogance, on direct orders, political pressure, who knows.

[madvlad]

I agree with you, completely, and I can't speak for the Officer's motivation to do what he did. May have been ignorance, arrogance, on direct orders, political pressure, who knows.

Which leads me to a question that I am sure many are curious about in their lifetime.... Do cops really have to meet a certain quota of tickets/citation and such? Just curious

[Hoot]

Right. The cop pulled him over and told him is intent was to take his camera for evidence against the other bikers. Guy says no you cannot have my personal property. Cop goes back to car and all of a sudden now it's an obstructed license plate?

[Aaron]

Which leads me to a question that I am sure many are curious about in their lifetime.... Do cops really have to meet a certain quota of tickets/citation and such? Just curious

I can't speak for any other city/agency of course, but not in mine. I have absolutely no pressure from anybody to write tickets. I can write 10 a day, or 10 a year, and nobody would ever know the difference, or care even if they did know.

[madvlad]

Right. The cop pulled him over and told him is intent was to take his camera for evidence against the other bikers. Guy says no you cannot have my personal property. Cop goes back to car and all of a sudden now it's an obstructed license plate?

funny how it works right?... oh hey cop I'm gonna go touch your wife now since personal boundaries don't exist

I can't speak for any other city/agency of course, but not in mine. I have absolutely no pressure from anybody to write tickets. I can write 10 a day, or 10 a year, and nobody would ever know the difference, or care even if they did know.

Oh word, I was always curious about that.

[Jmetz]

They do have a quota of Hispanics they have to arrest though.

[madvlad]

They do have a quota of Hispanics they have to arrest though.

Thank God I am not in that list

[#1Townie]

The supreme courts have ruled that an Officer can legally effect the arrest on a warrant, using the force necessary, even if the contact was illegal. So if he had a warrant, or if the arrest was for something unrelated, it's still legal even though the contact isn't. Regardless of how the subject being arrested feels, when a cop says those words, if you don't comply they can, and do, force you to.

To a point. Having a badge and dealing with an asshole gives no cop the right to use excessive force.


Also drano fuck that. So in your eyes because a bike did a wheelie on the same street as you its cool to pull you over and arrest YOU for the actions of others? Why not arrest everyone in a robbery situation?

[TFOGGuys]

Why not arrest everyone in a robbery situation?

ask and ye shall receive:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-bank-robber/

[Drano]

From what I gather from the video, he had no good reason at all, and that's a problem.

True, but could it be possible that another motorist called the police claiming that a group of motorcyclists were riding recklessly and endangering their safety? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that were the case.

[madvlad]

True, but could it be possible that another motorist called the police claiming that a group of motorcyclists were riding recklessly and endangering their safety? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that were the case.

That's a given, I have had the cops called on me for doing absolutely nothing so it all depends on what cagers consider careless/wreckless....

[Aaron]

To a point. Having a badge and dealing with an asshole gives no cop the right to use excessive force.

Agreed, I never said excessive

ask and ye shall receive:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-bank-robber/

You don't know the circumstances, but clearly it was a reliable tip as it did end up with the apprehension of the suspect. Cops don't always have a lot of information, and must make split second decisions with limited knowledge. It puts us in a very difficult position. And sometimes it means detaining innocent people until we can disregard them as suspects if they match a description given.

[Drano]

A motorcycle ban would be ridiculous dude, they approved weed bro that is never happening lol...

Which is why I referred to gun regulation and not marijuana. Look at the amount of regulation hitting the floor restricting gun types, and magazine capacities. We're talking about a 2nd Amendment right! We already know that cities have instituted gun bans. I doubt lawmakers would bat an eyelash about motorcycles.

Riding a bike is a privilege. If the government wants to shut it down, all they have to do is stop the sale of motorcycles and start impounding them. There is nothing guaranteeing a right to ride. If enough instances of public disorder, risk to general safety, and outright lawlessness in the face of authority persist, you can kiss it goodbye.

[Aaron]

True, but could it be possible that another motorist called the police claiming that a group of motorcyclists were riding recklessly and endangering their safety? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that were the case.

Could easily be the case (Which would generally meet reasonable suspicion for a brief detention). But in the case the Officer probably should have specified that on the initial contact.

[Drano]

Also drano fuck that. So in your eyes because a bike did a wheelie on the same street as you its cool to pull you over and arrest YOU for the actions of others? Why not arrest everyone in a robbery situation?

No, but if you happen to be with the robbers that makes you an accessory to the crime. Not necessarily a good example in relation to motorcycles.

The nice thing about due process is that if a motorcyclist is in the vicinity riding reckless and I get pulled over, it's up to me to prove that I was not aware, nor party to their actions. In which case I am back on the road doing what I love. Now if I happened to have video footage of others breaking the law and I am not, I will gladly hand it over to prove my case, not fighting the law every step of the way for some misplaced sense of loyalty to other riders.

As far as I'm concerned, groups of hooligans performing stunts on crowded highways are not only threatening other motorists, they're threatening the future of what I love to do. I don't care if stunters find an open parking lot, or a nice, open, empty stretch of road to let loose and have fun. That's what we're all basically looking for, whether it be canyon carving or stunting, but we all need to use prudence and common sense. Otherwise, the actions of a few numbskulls will ensure we all lose.

[TFOGGuys]

Agreed, I never said excessive



You don't know the circumstances, but clearly it was a reliable tip as it did end up with the apprehension of the suspect. Cops don't always have a lot of information, and must make split second decisions with limited knowledge. It puts us in a very difficult position. And sometimes it means detaining innocent people until we can disregard them as suspects if they match a description given.

Given that they had no physical description of the suspect or their vehicle, this amounts to a colossal fishing expedition. They detained over 35 adults (in handcuffs) for over an hour while they conducted their search. The ends do not necessarily justify the means.

[madvlad]

Which is why I referred to gun regulation and not marijuana. Look at the amount of regulation hitting the floor restricting gun types, and magazine capacities. We're talking about a 2nd Amendment right! We already know that cities have instituted gun bans. I doubt lawmakers would bat an eyelash about motorcycles.

Riding a bike is a privilege. If the government wants to shut it down, all they have to do is stop the sale of motorcycles and start impounding them. There is nothing guaranteeing a right to ride. If enough instances of public disorder, risk to general safety, and outright lawlessness in the face of authority persist, you can kiss it goodbye.

Owning a car is a priviledge but hey since there is no right to own cars and people can be just as wreckless with them too then eliminate them, bikes and let's put millions of people out of work . sounds logical

[Drano]

Owning a car is a priviledge but hey since there is no right to own cars and people can be just as wreckless with them too then eliminate them, bikes and let's put millions of people out of work . sounds logical

Here's the difference between your comparison of cars to motorcycles:

NUMBER OF MOTORCYCLES COMMUTING
Out of a total 120,000,000 commuters in this country (USA) 158,059 of them ride motorcycles to work regularly.
That's only 0.12 percent. US Department of Census

http://www.ridetowork.org/files/docs/Trans_Facts.pdf

Also, there is probably a higher instance rate of reckless driving in cars due to the sheer overwhelming number of them compared to motorcycles. However, we're talking about the same government body attempting to ban guns because they look scary. Effecting a ban on motorcycles would hardly be catastrophic due to their represented numbers, and the fact that most riders also own a car. We're talking about perception here. Most of the people I know perceive motorcycles as dangerous and unsafe. While it's not logical, you can bet those same assumptions are likely held by lawmakers as well.

[madvlad]

I doubt they'll ban motorcycles

[Drano]

I doubt they'll ban motorcycles

It's all hypothetical anyway. I hope it never comes to that, but it only takes a few rotten eggs to sour the issue and spoil it for the rest of us.

[#1Townie]

Right. The cop pulled him over and told him is intent was to take his camera for evidence against the other bikers. Guy says no you cannot have my personal property. Cop goes back to car and all of a sudden now it's an obstructed license plate?

Welcome to the country when the people give in to the idea of letting others keep them safe.


Drano your logic is completely backwards. You dint have to prove your innocence they have to prove your guilt. Well that is how its supposed to work. Thanks to guys like you that want to allow this kind of behavior because YOU dont like what OTHER people do with their lives we will see this happen not only more often but to larger degrees. The law is the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Basically aaron says that if a cop tells you something you have ro listen. While it is somewhat true it still brings up a problem. It will always be the officers word against the "suspect". It is completely baffling how much power we have handed over to cops. With the video recordings going on now days i have no idea how people have ANY trust in a cop.

Aaron i like you bro but im sorry man you are what is called far and few between. The fact is the majority of cops are not good. Sure maybe not all of them are some rodney king beat down kinds of people but every time a officer ignores a situation like that they become just has bad as the officer committing the act. Every time a officer sees an illegal act by a fellow officer it destroys the integrity of the whole department. I would love to see the day when a cops word is only worth the same as the "suspect". No evidence besides the officers word should make a case disappear.

Now to the actual video itself. The officers main goal of getting the footage will be thrown out by any halfass lawyer. The way the evidence was recovered was illegal and will now be thrown out.

Officers goal. Get bad people off the street. Officers actions. Illegally detained a person. Falsified charges and arrests the innocent person. Evidence is now unusable and now the people will be facing a possible lawsuit. Who wins? The original bad guys. Who looses? The tax payers. Great call OFFICER.