You know the world is F' up when..

[mdub]

. Young father shot 2x while changing 6 month old daughter's diaper. The baby was shot 5x. Both in critical condition.

[bulldog]

Horrible! So the baby was actually shot more than the dad! Amazing the baby is even still alive considering a baby's size

[madvlad]

.... someone just came in and discharged the clip at them for no reason?

[~Barn~]

Unfortunately, the baby has died. Father remains in critical condition.
Link to story

[madvlad]

Unfortunately, the baby has died. Father remains in critical condition.
Link to story

..... wow that is ridiculous and tragic R.I.P baby, hope the father pulls through and these fuck heads are brought to justice... unreal

[Jmetz]

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

My above comments aside, this is sad and seemingly senseless. I hope the best for the father and mother.

[~Barn~]

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

I see what you're getting at here, but the more successful approach would be to outlaw the sale, ownership, production, import, distribution, manufacturing, and otherwise existence of guns in the United States. A pipe dream to be sure, but not something I think a majority of US citizens - maybe even world citizens - (myself included) would be terribly opposed to.

The convenience of harm that is inherent to firearms, will always victimize and exploit the lack of self restraint and darkness that unfortunately permeates a segment of humanity. Victims like this child and her dad end up paying the ultimate price in a decision that ultimately takes a fraction of a second. All the gun posturing in the world doesn't change that result. It's little consolation at this point since Johnylah Watkins is now dead and gone and Jonathan Watkins fights for his life in a hospital bed, but I wish he would have had to fight off a knife attack instead.

[Vance]

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

My above comments aside, this is sad and seemingly senseless. I hope the best for the father and mother.

Comments about gun control aside - I think this really is a commentary about what happens when you get involved in gangs. It doesn't matter if you think you quit, if you want to quit... somewhere you likely pissed off someone that remembers you - colors on or off - and they want to make you pay. Family, friends, innocent passers-by be damned.

THis goes back to not being about the guns - but about the fucked up 'social' behavior that is gang affiliation and activity.

[Jmetz]

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm. Making firearms disappear would change nothing but the tool of choice I'm afraid. We've been killing each other since we've been able. Nothing will change it.

[Vance]

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm. 6 million Jews were killed in the holocaust, the vast majority not by firearms. The crusades were well before firearms. Making firearms disappear would change nothing but the tool of choice I'm afraid. We've been killing each other since we've been able. Nothing will change it.

I'm all for going back to swords if all armed forces across the world do it too.
I always thought it was a more civilized way to kill anyway

You know - facing your opponent... seeing their eyes... watching them bleed out in front of you. Totally much more civilized to any good sociopath and bloodlusting war monger, or me.

[bulldog]

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm. Making firearms disappear would change nothing but the tool of choice I'm afraid. We've been killing each other since we've been able. Nothing will change it.

In this situation I am not so sure though. The baby was killed as a innocent bystander; I highly doubt the baby was the target. So if it weren't for multiple bullets flying around there is a good chance they would just have got the father and not the baby if they used something like a knife

[~Barn~]

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm.

Yes, at the hands of masses of religious hordes and tyrannical leaders whose followers were controlled by the same spectre of death if disobedient. Now tens of thousands are slaughtered by the hands of individuals, because of the accessibility to "the tool".

I'm not saying that the removal of guns equates to the removal of evil; I know that it does not. But it does remove a very tangible (and effectvie) means by which it can be exercised on those who are undeserving.

Sadly it really is a "gun culture" thing, like Bob Costas tried to paraphrase Jason Whitlock. We abuse the conveniences available to us.
Guns Don't Kill People, Gun Culture Does

[Jmetz]

In this situation I am not so sure though. The baby was killed as a innocent bystander; I highly doubt the baby was the target. So if it weren't for multiple bullets flying around there is a good chance they would just have got the father and not the baby if they used something like a knife

What if they used a sword? It would've gone through him and the baby. What if they tossed a homemade grenade in? What if they rammed his car at high speed with another?

[bulldog]

What if they used a sword? It would've gone through him and the baby. What if they tossed a homemade grenade in? What if they rammed his car at high speed with another?

Now you are just being crazy!

In all reality very few killers, especially in gangs who tend to be young fathers, would intentionally kill a baby and I am sure this was done by accident trying to get to the dad (my guess is they didn't even know a baby was there). So even if they used a sword they would have seen the baby and avoided it; maybe even have decided to not kill at that moment. Plus we got ten shots fired and no fool with a sword swings 10 times.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

My above comments aside, this is sad and seemingly senseless. I hope the best for the father and mother.

More gun laws are ALWAYS the answer! 0bama says so! We should export the (D)ipshits that just passed them here and send 'em permanently to Chicago where they're obviously needed more......

[Wrider]

I'm not saying that the removal of guns equates to the removal of evil; I know that it does not. But it does remove a very tangible (and effectvie) means by which it can be exercised on those who are undeserving.

I'm just gonna throw this little tidbit out there. In 2009 (latest year I have data for, and does not buck the trend for previous years), more people were killed in the US by hands and fists than were murdered in all of the UK, Australia, or Canada.

I'm not thinking it's a gun culture thing, it's a US culture thing.

I'll also throw out the tidbit that the violent crime rate is 10 times higher in the UK than in the US.

[Jmetz]

Now you are just being crazy!

In all reality very few killers, especially in gangs who tend to be young fathers, would intentionally kill a baby and I am sure this was done by accident trying to get to the dad (my guess is they didn't even know a baby was there). So even if they used a sword they would have seen the baby and avoided it; maybe even have decided to not kill at that moment. Plus we got ten shots fired and no fool with a sword swings 10 times.

My comment was if there were no guns. I don't think it's that crazy to think if there were no guns that we would be using swords instead. I can make a grenade out of household chemicals in 5 minutes. Is it really that crazy? You're doing a lot of speculating. The shooter may have seen the baby for all we know. Someone intent one killing someone else generally cares little about bystanders affected.

[bulldog]

My comment was if there were no guns. I don't think it's that crazy to think if there were no guns that we would be using swords instead. I can make a grenade out of household chemicals in 5 minutes. Is it really that crazy? You're doing a lot of speculating. The shooter may have seen the baby for all we know. Someone intent one killing someone else generally cares little about bystanders affected.

I just think innocent bystander killings would go down if people were forced to use other weapons. I could be wrong, but seems like common sense to me when you hear of people just shooting and bullets keep going, yet you very rarely hear an a innocent bystander being killed by a stabbing.

I don't agree that most killers care little about bystanders; especially when it is a baby. I say this because if a child molester goes into prison he is treated like shit because inmates are fathers and do care about kids. Only psychopaths kill for fun and gang killings are usually because of a intent on a person or a rival gang member. Look at the mafia; very few would ever kill a woman or child and that is against their code.

[Ghosty]

Why all gang members should be shot on sight. Poor baby, innocent victim of a ridiculous and uneccessary segment of society. Fucking ghetto trash. And don't tell me "you're a sheltered suburbanite and don't know what it's like growing up in the inner city where you need to be in a gang so you can walk to school safely".

[mdub]

Why all gang members should be shot on sight. Poor baby, innocent victim of a ridiculous and uneccessary segment of society. Fucking ghetto trash. And don't tell me "you're a sheltered suburbanite and don't know what it's like growing up in the inner city where you need to be in a gang so you can walk to school safely".

wrong place at the wrong time....news says father is not affiliated with any gang..

[bulldog]

wrong place at the wrong time....news says father is not affiliated with any gang..

I just went by the article

Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said the incident has "very strong gang overtones" and the father, who has an extensive criminal history, was the intended target. Police are pursuing several angles, McCarthy said.

[Jmetz]

I just think innocent bystander killings would go down if people were forced to use other weapons. I could be wrong, but seems like common sense to me when you hear of people just shooting and bullets keep going, yet you very rarely hear an a innocent bystander being killed by a stabbing.

I don't agree that most killers care little about bystanders; especially when it is a baby. I say this because if a child molester goes into prison he is treated like shit because inmates are fathers and do care about kids. Only psychopaths kill for fun and gang killings are usually because of a intent on a person or a rival gang member. Look at the mafia; very few would ever kill a woman or child and that is against their code.

Child molesters and someone that unintentionally killed a child in a shooting are two very different things. Maybe you can point me to the gang bangers that stopped shooting into a house because there was children in it? Or maybe the drive by that stopped because there were woman and children present?

[Jmetz]

I just went by the article

Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said the incident has "very strong gang overtones" and the father, who has an extensive criminal history, was the intended target. Police are pursuing several angles, McCarthy said.

Yeah the article changed quite a bit from the original.

[bulldog]

Child molesters and someone that unintentionally killed a child in a shooting are two very different things. Maybe you can point me to the gang bangers that stopped shooting into a house because there was children in it? Or maybe the drive by that stopped because there were woman and children present?

No I agree that not all, but I think a majority of them would not intentionally kill a kid......the ones that do drive by's into house are usually just too stupid to think that far ahead....or fall into that minority of people that don't care.

And yes I do know gang bangers that would shoot into the floor because they thought about who else may be inside. They shot to respect/fear their gang, but intentionally shot low to avoid hitting anyone....true story I swear! When I asked why, he told me " I ain't killing no kids or women".