Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 24 of 29

Thread: Use your front brakes!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,645

    Use your front brakes!

    I was out riding with one of my usual riding buddies and his gf. He's very experienced, rides a ZX10R, and he and I ride about the same pace.

    She is a very inexperienced rider, she's put maybe 1000-1500 miles on her Ninja 250 in the last two years she's owned it.

    We were riding with him in front, her behind him, and me at the rear in a staggered formation. We were riding along in pretty heavy traffic and paying attention in front of us as well as to the car trying to merge into us from the right. The cars in front of us braked suddenly and all 3 of us hit the brakes pretty hard. Here's where the issue comes in.

    You need to use the front brake!

    I've noticed with a lot of Ninja 250 riders that they use their rear brake the most. I understand why, seeing as both are equally effective on that bike, not to mention that the front causes the weak forks to dive. That said, it's a bad, horrible, terrible habit. She locked up her rear brake and the rear end kicked out to the right. The bike went down and she tumbled off into the lane to the left. Her helmet is scraped all to hell, but her TourMaster jacket held up extremely well. She is a little torn up, some fatty tissue missing from her knee, a decent bruise on her hip, and a scraped up hand (wear sturdy gear people, those thin gloves are next to useless). She'll be ok, but the bike is probably totaled. We had probably 10 people stop and make sure she was alright, and blocking traffic for us, so that was absolutely terrific.

    Another side note is that I've always wondered if staggered formation was really the way you should be riding, and after seeing what I saw today, I can tell you that it's exactly how you should ride. The bike in front was to the right, her bike to the left, and my bike to the left. When she went down, the bike went forward and slightly to the right, missing my buddy/her bf's front wheel by about 3 feet. I was able to stop before I hit any part of her bike or her solely because I was off to the side.
    Have owned: '01 Volusia
    Currently own: '05 Z750S

  2. #2
    Chocolate Thunder
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    495

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    wow...first I am glad she will be ok. I understand the lesson here is about breaking and to apply BOTH brakes, so some learning from this is or questions is who taught her to ride, did she take MSF class? And I was also curious to know what type of pants she was wearing and gloves? But I am once again very happy another female ride is safe, sore and bruised but alive and I hope this doesn't stop her from getting back on.

    Kerry
    Suzuki Gladius 650
    GSXR 750

    Taste the rainbow...B*itch
    http://www.pajiba.com/videos/awesome...inbow-btch.php

  3. #3
    Member guambra2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    79

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Wow...sucks but at least she's fine. I ride a ZX-3r aka Njnja 300 and I can tell you the majority of the braking power lies in the front brake. I could not see how someone uses the rear break only!! Yikes.

    Now I do like to use the rear to set my entry speed but not for sole braking. Glad she's ok and hopefully she can Lear from this ...

  4. #4
    Senior Member FZRguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    4,476

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Parking lot drills, over and over and over til she can haul it down as quick as an exp. rider.
    John
    KTM Duke 690

  5. #5

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Glad everyone is OK - I've caught myself using too much rear brake…almost to the point where I want to (mechanically) restrict how much force I can apply…quite possibly the bigger lesson is to give yourself, your riding party and the people behind you three times the room to slow down / panic stop...

    I'm surprised we don't see more riders getting rear-ended - simply based on how quickly a bike can stop vs. how quickly a car can stop…energy in a car : cars braking capacity vs. energy in a bike : bikes braking capacity...

  6. #6
    Chocolate Thunder
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    495

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    I hear you on this..my other half made me do parking lot drills for an entire summer and then take 2 motorcycle classes before he let me get off of training wheels. So happy he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by FZRguy View Post
    Parking lot drills, over and over and over til she can haul it down as quick as an exp. rider.

    Kerry
    Suzuki Gladius 650
    GSXR 750

    Taste the rainbow...B*itch
    http://www.pajiba.com/videos/awesome...inbow-btch.php

  7. #7
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,645

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    On the 250, the front and rear supply the same amount of braking power. Trust me, I've ridden 3 or so, and all of them are the same in that respect.

    We won't be encouraging her to get on another bike. In her 2000 miles or so she's gone down 3 times with no other mitigating factors, and refuses to practice the drills we offer to help her with. Yes she took the MSF, she just doesn't apply it.

    In response to giving plenty of room... We did actually. The car in front of us went from 35 to stopped in probably 30 or 40 feet. Almost locked up their brakes stopping in time.
    Have owned: '01 Volusia
    Currently own: '05 Z750S

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Arvada, CO
    Posts
    22

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    That sounds terrible, I'm glad she's ok. I started on a Ninja 250 and got into the same habit. I took my bike in for the 5000 mile service and got chewed out by the mechanic as my back pads needed replacing but had plenty of time left on the front pads... Few weeks later I locked up the rear wheel, but managed to pull into another lane and steady it before completely losing control. Learned my lesson at that point.

    With my Ninja 650 now I can really tell the difference between how effective front braking and back braking is, so its not as temping to rely on the back.

  9. #9
    Member kevplus2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    longmont
    Posts
    291

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrider View Post
    On the 250, the front and rear supply the same amount of braking power. Trust me, I've ridden 3 or so, and all of them are the same in that respect.
    while it may have felt to you like the front and back supply the same amount of braking power, basic physics say they dont. even if all of the components were identical ont he front and back brake systems (rotor size/caliper piston size/and m/c piston size), which they are not, i would agree that the same amount of force is being exerted on the contact patch of each tire when the bike is not moving (exactly when you dont need brakes). once you throw motion into the equation and weight shifts forward, over 70% of the braking force is being exerted through the contact patch of the front tire.

    so your point still stands that riders should learn to use the front brake

    2000 tillis plus stuff with some polished stuff and some carbon fiber stuff and a little bit of tlr stuff and some gsxr stuff

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,645

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Actually from a physics perspective my point still stands. The difference is that the rear is easier to lock up because it has less weight on it (contributing to a smaller contact patch as well). I'll ask my physics professor tomorrow for confirmation...

  11. #11
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,645

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Can't edit on mobile but you're right on the different sizes. I'm not sure what to tell you but they are either the same or extremely close. Find one to test ride if you don't believe me.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    In front of all the slow bikes.
    Posts
    2,190

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    I'm glad she's ok.

    On a side note, if you're considering buying a bike and ABS is available, get it, you won't regret it, even if you do track riding.

  13. #13
    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Denver area
    Posts
    2,490

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrider View Post
    I understand why, seeing as both are equally effective on that bike, not to mention that the front causes the weak forks to dive.
    I've never heard of any bike having both brakes equally as effective. Weight shifts to the front of the bike when the forks compress, a vast majority of stopping power comes from the front. The rear is just that "little extra"

    I'm glad she's ok though, the bike is always replacable. Just ask Brad
    #703

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    21

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrider View Post
    Actually from a physics perspective my point still stands. The difference is that the rear is easier to lock up because it has less weight on it...
    There is a contradiction in there. Once weight transfers forward, that is exactly the reason the front has more stopping power. More weight = ability to generate more deceleration force. The harder you're braking, the more weight transfer and bigger the disparity in braking power. When you're just casually slowing down the front and rear may feel like they have similar braking ability, but when you need to stop quickly, the front is able to slow you down A LOT faster without locking up. And if you're taking physics, you probably also know that there is more braking force available from a rolling tire (static coefficient of friction) than a sliding one (dynamic coefficient of friction).

    Glad she made it through with only minor injuries. Hope she heals up soon and decides it's time for some drills!

  15. #15
    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    In front of all the slow bikes.
    Posts
    2,190

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    There really is no argument here, there's a reason the front brakes are larger and typically have more than one rotor, and that's because there is so much more weight on the front tire that significantly more force can be applied without locking it up, which creates more heat, causing the need for bigger brakes.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,645

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Oh no I definitely understand the physics behind it. I'm just saying that the Ninjette is the only bike I've ever ridden where the front and rear offer very similar braking performance (until the rear locks up obviously).

    That said, we're hoping she decides she doesn't want another bike. 2000 miles + 3 self caused accidents = someone that shouldn't be riding IMHO.
    Have owned: '01 Volusia
    Currently own: '05 Z750S

  17. #17
    Board Newbie limespeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Boulder
    Posts
    8

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Sorry to hear about your friends accident... I ride a Ninja 250 as well and in my opinion the rear brake is great for slowing to a rolling stop at a stop sign. beyond light braking, the rear simply does not cut it as the rear becomes so unweighted that locking the rear is annoyingly easy. unless I happen to be riding on gravel or a situation with poor traction, I always have two fingers covering the front lever.

    Like you, I am a firm believer in front brakes. That being said, your friend made two mistakes: first and obviously she used the wrong brake lever. Secondly, if your friend had correct braking posture and technique she would have hit the car directly in front of her. (I am very glad she didn't) Because your friends rear end slid out, she must have been leaning to one side or must have put unequal pressure on the handle bars. Good braking posture dictates staying completely vertical and putting little pressure on the bars to get the most breaking force out of your rubber

    What I'm saying is, go out and practice your stoppies!!! Put all your gear on and get there gradually!

  18. #18
    Senior Member Sleev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    temporarily squatting in your world
    Posts
    693

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    I took the MSF course probably 12 years ago. I don't remember them stressing using the front more than the back, but that of course could've been the fault of the instructors we had.
    I have no idea what you're talking about.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Westminster
    Posts
    230

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    I took the MSF course last year and they only tell us to use both brakes.
    2013 zx6r
    MRA Novice #407
    Race like a girl!

  20. #20
    Senior Member FZRguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    4,476

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    A very quick stop saved my bacon last year when a Jeep did a u-turn on I-25 on-ramp near the AFA. I had shifted into 3rd and was accelerating when dude turned in front of me from the right side of the road. I always cover the front brake with one finger to avoid grabbing and hauled it down with both brakes, barely missing his rear quarter panel. It was my first real I NEED TO STOP NOW situation and I was happy with the outcome.
    John
    KTM Duke 690

  21. #21
    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    In front of all the slow bikes.
    Posts
    2,190

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snazzy View Post
    I took the MSF course last year and they only tell us to use both brakes.
    Although this is generally good advice, there are situations when one brake is better, which is why most bikes still have separate systems. I'm not sure if my bike links the brakes under some conditions or not, though I did turn ABS off and was able to lock the rear.

    Nice leathers too!

  22. #22
    Senior Member Moderator Slo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Denver 80239
    Posts
    4,397

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snazzy View Post
    I took the MSF course last year and they only tell us to use both brakes.
    MSF is a great course, but keep in mind that is a "beginners course" designed for anyone, from any background, for any street legal motorcycle, getting onto our public roads. If they taught it without using the rear brake, could be a huge liability issue.
    Last edited by Slo; Wed Sep 25th, 2013 at 08:55 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member usmcab35's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    West Greeley CO
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    I use both when I need to stop really quick but normally for everything its all front for me, Its so natural I grab for the front first. Glad she is ok, and with that many accidents I hope if she decides to get another bike she takes some more training and learns to walk before she learns to run!
    -Eugene-


    2007 black hayabusa touring beast
    2003 KTM 525sx/exc hybrid
    2002 black and blue hayabusa- (SOLD)
    2000 ZX7R STREETFIGHTER-(SOLD)



  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    356

    Re: Use your front brakes!

    My rear brake barely works on my SV650. Interesting that even with an experienced BF rider and the MSF she won't change her ways. Maybe she's used to braking the rear on a bicycle or just terrified of endoing. The MSF stresses both brakes but also works on finding the threshold of the rear tire locking up. Maybe not getting another bike is for her own good.

Similar Threads

  1. Front Brakes Problem
    By flyingmonkey in forum Bike Tech
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Wed Oct 31st, 2012, 10:46 AM
  2. Front brakes
    By Redflash3 in forum Bike Tech
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Fri Aug 8th, 2008, 06:38 PM
  3. Hitting front brakes in a curve, BAD
    By t_jolt in forum Technique
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Tue May 15th, 2007, 07:11 PM
  4. Front Brakes-1993 CBR900RR
    By GregsGSXR in forum Bike Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Fri Apr 20th, 2007, 07:20 AM
  5. F4 front brakes
    By nuts4ninjas in forum Bike Tech
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Wed Aug 25th, 2004, 09:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •