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Thread: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

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    Senior Member kawasakirob's Avatar
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    Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    What a race! I cannot believe Marquez was Black Flagged. Wow! It seemed like the race was a total mess from the start. Marquez getting Black Flagged, Dani having to give up his spot..... What do you guys think?
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    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Between 93 and the rest of his team someone screwed up, but Dani's team got it right. Someone at Honda had a pre race interview and was asked when their riders would be coming to the pits, and he replied that it was up to the riders to decide.

    It was really awesome watching Jorge sliding his bike.... didn't think he knew how to do that !
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Rookie mistake is what it looked like. Also Honda Factory are saying they were told that a rider could complete a full 10 ten laps as long as they went into the pits before crossing the line starting the 11th lap. Now, how true this is I don't know but seems like Honda should have asked for clarification on the rules prior to the race. If this were also the case, they should have immediately black flagged Marquez as soon as he didn't follow Lorenzo into the pits. Letting him go around for another lap, then come in, switch bikes only added to the confusion. Then it took them another two laps to make their decision and then black flag him. By then, damage was done and no one really knew what was going on.

    I think this was just a giant clusterf**k to begin with, starting with Bridgestone supplying crappy tires that couldn't withstand the newly resurfaced Phillip Island track. They should have planned for this, knowing full well that they were coming to a track with a new surface. After Friday morning FP1 they should have been fully aware of the blistering heat that the tires were generating and sent off for a completely new tire.

    Also another area I think Dorna and FIM completely dropped the ball was the bike switch over. MotoGP is not like Formula 1. They don't plan for pit stops, it's not something that is ever in the playbook unless there is threat of rain. Teams that are fairly untested in terms of getting bikes in and out aren't going to handle the pandemonium of everyone pitting on laps 9 or 10. What they(Dorna) should have done was told everyone in the paddock. Look, lap 10 is when you will "ALL" pit. That way everyone would be heading into the pits at the same time. Sure it would have been hectic to a degree but the teams would have had a better direction in which to go. Instead, giving teams the "Option" of pitting on lap 9 or 10 only added to the screwed up mess that ensued. By having everyone pit on the same lap, it would have ensured that there would have been a clear track for the front runners and we wouldn't have had the Lorenzo/Marquez incident that happened. That could have ended badly and I think Dorna should pull their heads out and make sure that never happens again. With everyone pitting on the same lap, everyone would have come in, in their current running order and gone out in the same fashion(or whoever gets on their next bike sooner). That BS of letting them come in or two separate laps is what caused confusion in my opinion.

    Also, I've turned a new leaf on the whole "one tire" manufacture idea. When they first brought it into play years ago, I thought it would have been a good idea. But seeing as how all of the teams have struggled this year with Bridgestone's sub-par tires, it might be a good idea to bring back the multi-tire fight again. Bring Dunlop, Pirelli, Michelin and Bridgestone into the mix and let teams use the tires they prefer. I know the one tire company rule has worked to some degree in WSBK but I think with these MotoGP bike just getting more and more faster/powerful it only seems right to allow more tire companies in to help provide decent rubber to the racers.

    I remember back in 2006 when Rossi was having a hell of a time with Michelin and his tires were sucking bad. Michelin was at the top of the pile and I believe got complacent in tire development because Rosis was killing everyone prior to that year. Now the same thing is happening to Bridgestone only by default as Bridgestone is the only tire allowed. Well they've become lazy and are churning out crappy tires. Allow four companies to fight in the tire wars and I think we'll have a lot better tires start showing up at these tracks that will be able to handle the GP bike and last race distance.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Matrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Complete cluster! No other way to describe it. I just hope the championship isn't decided because of this.
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    Gold Member asp_125's Avatar
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Was it a rookie mistake or did the pit board mess up? What a fustercluck.
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Hopefully the surface won't be so abrasive next year to cause this to happen again. The footage of Dani entering the pits was unbelievable! Seeing him slam on the brakes as the bike squirmed everywhere! Man! And the light collision between Jorge and Marquez when he was re entering the track. That could have been devastating.
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    I blame Dorna

    Here's why:

    1) WSBK raced at Phillip Island on the new surface in February. Pirelli and the Superbikes did not have these issues. So, do we really think a 600cc Moto2 bike is harder on tires than a full factory superbike? The ART / ASPAR CRT bikes are basically tuned up versions of Aprilia's Superbike, and they have been seen inside of the top 10 in MotoGP, so I say no. Superbikes are harder on tires than Moto2 bikes. So, why then would the Moto2 race have to be shortened to 1/2 distance? Because Dunlop and Bridgestone failed to go test at P.I. on the new surface. Pirelli obviously did some testing, otherwise the superbikes would have had the same issues. The media suggests that Dorna "recommended" the Dunlop and Bridgestone do testing on the surface, but those recommendations were ignored, probably due to cost. I still blame Dorna, however. If, as a sanctioning body, you're going to assure the profit of a single company by mandating that all riders use that "control" tire, then you should also be able to mandate that the manufacturers of those tires supply a product that meets the need. Bridgestone has had the contract for Moto GP tires for several years now, and supply 100's of tires (that the teams must pay for) at each round. Sure, there is advertising value for them, but I'm certain that they are making money (and probably lots of it) as a result of their involvement with Moto GP. The same can be said of Dunlop and Moto 2. That they weren't able to supply a suitable tire is simply unacceptable.

    2) The collision between Marquez and Lorenzo. Sure, it was a boneheaded move on Marquez's part to be going toward that apex when he knew he was going MUCH slower than race pace into that corner, but the math isn't that hard. Dorna officials extended the "speed limit" zone of the pits, which was the vast majority of the time spent on the pit stop portion of the race. It should have been pretty easy to figure out that the pit stop duration would be roughly the duration of one lap based on the speed limits, and therefore would be setting up a possible collision when riders exited the pits.

    3) Tweets from Colin Edwards indicate that the rule / procedure change was handed to the teams on a sheet of paper. Come on, really? If we have procedural changes at THE CLUB level, we have a riders meeting for the affected riders, let them ask their questions and make sure that everyone understands the changes before heading onto the race track again. It's remarkable to me that with the millions of dollars (probably B for Billion really) in promotion, advertising, R&D and other costs associated with MotoGP that they wouldn't take the extra hour it might have taken to round up representatives from each team to make sure that the changes were clear and understood. They even had the extra (almost) hour to do it with since the Moto2 race was shortened to 1/2 distance. If the tire was truly dangerous beyond 10 laps (and photos from the pits of the Honda tires say they were) then this clarity is necessary to protect the safety of the riders.

    At least that's how I see it

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    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    I guess Bridgestone was not joking when they said they couldn't guarantee the safety of their tyres past 10 laps.... Apparently this is a snap shot of Team #93's rear tyre after his late pit....

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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    I guess Bridgestone was not joking when they said they couldn't guarantee the safety of their tyres past 10 laps.... Apparently this is a snap shot of Team #93's rear tyre after his late pit....

    that's just sad...
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    Re: Phillip Island ****Spoiler****

    Quote Originally Posted by rybo View Post
    WSBK raced at Phillip Island on the new surface in February. Pirelli and the Superbikes did not have these issues. So, do we really think a 600cc Moto2 bike is harder on tires than a full factory superbike? The ART / ASPAR CRT bikes are basically tuned up versions of Aprilia's Superbike, and they have been seen inside of the top 10 in MotoGP, so I say no. Superbikes are harder on tires than Moto2 bikes. So, why then would the Moto2 race have to be shortened to 1/2 distance? Because Dunlop and Bridgestone failed to go test at P.I. on the new surface. Pirelli obviously did some testing, otherwise the superbikes would have had the same issues. The media suggests that Dorna "recommended" the Dunlop and Bridgestone do testing on the surface, but those recommendations were ignored, probably due to cost. I still blame Dorna, however. If, as a sanctioning body, you're going to assure the profit of a single company by mandating that all riders use that "control" tire, then you should also be able to mandate that the manufacturers of those tires supply a product that meets the need. Bridgestone has had the contract for Moto GP tires for several years now, and supply 100's of tires (that the teams must pay for) at each round. Sure, there is advertising value for them, but I'm certain that they are making money (and probably lots of it) as a result of their involvement with Moto GP. The same can be said of Dunlop and Moto 2. That they weren't able to supply a suitable tire is simply unacceptable.
    That's what I have been wondering about as well. I remember the WSBK race and they were able to go full distance on a set of tires. But one thing I remember hearing during the Motogp pre-race commentary was the mention that some of the local racers had been complaining that the track surface had become even more abrasive over the last six months. If that's the case, maybe there truly was nothing the tire manufacturers could do. Still, I think allowing one manufacturer to monopolize the sport is simply bad form. Competition breeds innovation, and that translates to a better product for us down the road. On the other hand, Moto2 is probably my favorite series because the motorcycles are so closely matched and makes it more of a rider's game to win. So...

    As far as Phillip Island is concerned, I think Dorna should have dropped the track from the series until the track owners addressed the issue with the surface. Instead, Dorna chose to over-complicate the issue with the 9-10 lap pit rule and that totally made a mess of the entire affair for the teams and the riders. While it is likely that I'm missing some contractual intricacies between Tissot and Dorna, it seems that the sensible thing would have been to let the track owners take a hit in revenue by losing the event. Meanwhile, I'm sure there are plenty of tracks that would have loved the opportunity to host a MotoGP event. As far as I know, even the announcers were saying that Phillip Island had poor attendance. Why support a track that provides an unsuitable track surface, and poor spectator attendance? The answer is, it seems, because a bad track is not the only unsuitable thing happening in Motogp.

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