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Thread: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

  1. #1
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Edit: since it shows up on the "What's New" part of the forum the first sentence or so of my thread. I'm adding this in to further keep those in the dark, who wish to remain in the dark about the results of the race until they see it. Also, I didn't say who won this race, only to congratulate Marquez for his Championship..

    Congrats to Marquez for becoming the youngest MotoGP champion!!

    You earned it and did a fantastic job and just managed the race. Lorenzo did a great job this year as well. I'm sure he'd going to go down as the only defending champion to win 8 MotoGP races in a season to then lose his championship. Jorge has grit and determination. Can't wait for the 2014 season. Testing starts Monday and we'll see how they get along with their 2014 machines.


    P.S.
    Valentino, step your game up in 2014!!!
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    "Finish today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."




  2. #2
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    That kid is an improved Rossi in the making. Rossi was definitely lacking even with Lorenzo running slower pace trying to make Marquez make a mistake. Pretty great 10 laps at the start there. Congratulations to Marc Marquez on his first ever history making championship. That kid is the real deal. Once Rossi is gone I'll be rooting for Marc. Kid rides 100% and with heart, that's passion and love for your craft.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    That kid is an improved Rossi in the making. Rossi was definitely lacking even with Lorenzo running slower pace trying to make Marquez make a mistake. Pretty great 10 laps at the start there. Congratulations to Marc Marquez on his first ever history making championship. That kid is the real deal. Once Rossi is gone I'll be rooting for Marc. Kid rides 100% and with heart, that's passion and love for your craft.
    Oh for sure Marquez is on a blistering pace at the moment. He didn't have to push the limit in this race. Only manage it and I'm glad that's what he did. He showed that he's got some champion pedigree in how he managed to bring it home, mistake free.

    What I found odd about Lorenzo trying to slow things down and bunch everyone up was that it allowed five riders to stay with him but you could tell Dani wanted past and would have left if he could. I found it even more odd Rossi's pace as well. The first 15 laps he was right in the mix and even made a pass or two. When Lorenzo upped the pace, then everyone spread out. Now I'll admit Rossi doesn't have Lorenzo's pace. Though he wasn't that far behind the Honda's, which tells me he's got the pace to keep the Honda's in sight. Even when Pedrosa got passed Rossi, they were very close up until Pedrosa caught Marquez and pulled a gap.

    Also have you noticed during the start, when they all drag race to the first corner. That Rossi's bike and Lorenzo's do seem to have power differences. Lorenzo always gets the hole shot and pulls in front. Rossi gets a good jump, yet you can tell his bike is down on steam by the time they arrive at the first corner. Because both Honda's pulled in front of him. It's either Rossi's bike is down on steam, or he's letting up earlier because he's unsure of the bikes braking going into Turn 1. Not wanting to push the bike and risk what happened in Motegi.

    All I can say is it must be frustrating being on a bike that you're not physically and mentally willing to trust under braking.

    I think Motegi was really telling in terms of braking issues for Rossi. Lots of people have said Rossi broke under pressure from the Honda's in Turn 11. But you can tell the difference in the way he and Lorenzo ride the bike. Lorenzo, whose never been a late braking rider, didn't suffer the same front end wash that Rossi got. It's either bad setup by Rossi and his team or the bike really can't handle Rossi's style of late braking. Because in back to back laps, Rossi was fighting a front end that wanted to wash out.

    I personally believe the Burgess move was necessary. Hopefully Rossi can land a crew chief that is in tune with the changing times of MotoGP bikes. One that understands how to do a better setup in terms of the technology that's involved with these bikes. If not and Rossi can't improve next year to fight for podiums and wins. I think he'll retire. He's got too much pride to play second fiddle and fight for 4th every race. He'll know he's lost that extra little bit of speed that he needs and move on.

    Rossi needs to find that extra little bit of pace for race day. If you compare his practice and lately his qualifying times, he's right in the mix with the top 3 riders. He's not far off the front.

    I'm with you, once Rossi hangs up his leathers. I'll be rooting for Marquez and Lorenzo. No one will ever replace Rossi for me, but I'll have others that I look forward to seeing them grow and race fast.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    "So live your life so the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their views, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
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    "Finish today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."




  4. #4
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Oh yea, I will agree that there's a huge difference power wise on both yamahas. If you notice both Hondas are constant with power, etf. Imagine if Rossi had equal treatment from Yamaha even being 2nd in the team. That also cost Lorenzo the championship, Rossi needs a bike that can carry the pace of those other 3 guys, he obviously has the skill but without a proper bike it makes it difficult. I'm watching the post race conference and even Lorenzo said that they had to switch to an engine from earlier in the season and not the newer, more powerful one that broke yesterday. Favoritism cost Yamaha and Lorenzo the championship imo... Finishing 4th in the general standings is not bad considering his 1st year back with Yamaha but they could've done better for him I think.
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    Senior Member kawasakirob's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    What a fantastic race! Probably the most exciting and anticipated race of the year! What a great ride by Lorenzo, he really did handle himself well didnt he? And Dani! Hard charging! Beautiful scrap between him and Lorenzo, that's racing!!


    CONGRATULATIONS MARC MARQUEZ!!!!!
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    great race and congrats to Marc.

    as far as rossi bike compared to lorenzo's, its the end of the season and they are limited
    on the number of engines. rossi very well could have been on his last engine that was de tuned
    slightly so it would last the race while lorenzo's engine coould have been fresher and making
    more power.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Oh yea, I will agree that there's a huge difference power wise on both yamahas. If you notice both Hondas are constant with power, etf. Imagine if Rossi had equal treatment from Yamaha even being 2nd in the team. That also cost Lorenzo the championship, Rossi needs a bike that can carry the pace of those other 3 guys, he obviously has the skill but without a proper bike it makes it difficult. I'm watching the post race conference and even Lorenzo said that they had to switch to an engine from earlier in the season and not the newer, more powerful one that broke yesterday. Favoritism cost Yamaha and Lorenzo the championship imo... Finishing 4th in the general standings is not bad considering his 1st year back with Yamaha but they could've done better for him I think.
    Agreed as well. Yamaha may have shot themselves in the foot by not giving Rossi a better package to work with. Or I should say, a package that he could tweak better to his liking, because the M1 is a good package. It's just suited to Lorenzo's style of setting. But Yamaha, could have utilized Rossi a bit more, in order to take points from the Honda's. Sure he may have not won more than Lorenzo. Maybe he would have only taken two or three race wins. But they might have been race wins from the Honda's he would have taken away.

    My personal opinion and this is just me going off into one of my favorite conspiracy theory modes. I think after Yamaha saw his performance in Qatar, that early mistake only to make a huge charge to the front, shocked and worried them. Especially Lin Jarvis. I believe that after Qatar, we saw them "do whatever it is they do" to Rossi's bike to make him less competitive to Lorenzo. They knew that if Lorenzo stood any chance of retaining his crown, that he would need to do it without Rossi inside his head.

    Since I watch Rossi and Lorenzo so closely during the races. I could honestly tell that Lorenzo was too an extent butt-hurt when Rossi passed him in the wet race at Le Mans. He messed with his head and he started drifting back. Only a fall by Rossi gave him back what he lost.

    As far as finishing 4th in the championship(some 100 points ahead of Crutchlow) is nothing to sneeze at and something for Rossi to be proud of, considering that two shitbag years he just spent on that crappy Ducati. Which I think if anything vindicates Rossi immensely because, it just goes to show that it was the Bike and not the rider. Sure Stoner is/was the only who could win on a Duacti. Stoner was also the only one to crash out more on a Ducati and willing to ride with the "Win it or Bin it" mentality on the Ducati(which cost him dearly after 2007). Rossi, Hayden, and Dovi aren't/weren't willing to push that POS past its abilities and they'd all much rather walk away from a shitty result, than be carried off on a stretcher with a DNF.

    Really if Rossi can just get the bike he asks for in terms of braking, I really don't think he'd have a problem with Lorenzo getting the most powerful motor and best parts. If Rossi can get the bike he wants to brake the way he wants. We've seen in the past, he'll make due with a weaker and less powerful engine. Look at 2004 when Rossi came to Yamaha. He opted for a very less powerful M1 engine than what Yamaha wanted to put in the bike. He knew, that braking and balance were more important that sheer power and acceleration. He knew that having a bike he would put anywhere he wanted in a corner meant more than smoking everyone down the front straight.

    That's why we've never really seen Rossi clear off and ride like Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa. They all have/had bikes that were powerful and accelerated very hard. But those three have never been known for their dog fighting skills. Most of Rossi's wins came with him dog fighting his way to the front and winning by just a few tenths or maybe a second or two.

    I've always believed that balance, agility and braking will trump power and acceleration. The problem now that Yamaha face, is that Honda have figured out a way to put all of that into a package. They've got the braking, balance and agility. Problem is, Yamaha doesn't have someone who knows how to dog fight and wear people down at the front. Sure Lorenzo can put up a bit of a scrap. But once he can get in front, he tries to break free and leave the person behind him. He doesn't have the stamina to keep up the fight over the entire race.

    I can't count the times I've watched Rossi stalk someone lap after lap. Wearing them down, getting inside their head..

    I know Drano and KawiRob made fun of me in the last thread about Rossi being "Unleashed" but I only have to point to his win in Assen to prove my point. With Lorenzo out of the picture(injured) and Rossi carrying the Yamaha flag into battle. Look at how he shined. He put in a ride like I've seen him ride in the past. He was unstoppable that day. But again, I think Yamaha saw his potential at Assen and the subsequent races that followed you could tell that something had happened and his bike wasn't as competitive as it was on that day in Assen.

    Again, let the conspiracy theory kick in. But I don't know what happened, whether it be team orders saying, "o.k. you've had your day in the sun this year, now time for Jorge to come back.", or they dialed his bike back, didn't give him the right parts or less performing parts. Or they just flat out said, "when Jorge is healthy, you don't come anywhere close to him on race day. Just be thankful you're back on a competitive bike and enjoy it, type thing..."

    Which if the theory is true and Yamaha truly are hampering his potential, why I said that if he does manage to get a bike that performs the way he wants it, brakes the way that inspires confidence in him. Then I say go for broke and win as many races as possible. Try to earn a 10th Championship and if he can pull it off. As soon as the final race was over, I'd tell Yamaha to pound sand and then retire on the spot.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; Sun Nov 10th, 2013 at 10:38 AM.
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    "Finish today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."




  8. #8
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Agreed as well. Yamaha may have shot themselves in the foot by not giving Rossi a better package to work with. Or I should say, a package that he could tweak better to his liking, because the M1 is a good package. It's just suited to Lorenzo's style of setting. But Yamaha, could have utilized Rossi a bit more, in order to take points from the Honda's. Sure he may have not won more than Lorenzo. Maybe he would have only taken two or three race wins. But they might have been race wins from the Honda's he would have taken away.

    My personal opinion and this is just me going off into one of my favorite conspiracy theory modes. I think after Yamaha saw his performance in Qatar, that early mistake only to make a huge charge to the front, shocked and worried them. Especially Lin Jarvis. I believe that after Qatar, we saw them "do whatever it is they do" to Rossi's bike to make him less competitive to Lorenzo. They knew that if Lorenzo stood any chance of retaining his crown, that he would need to do it without Rossi inside his head.

    Since I watch Rossi and Lorenzo so closely during the races. I could honestly tell that Lorenzo was too an extent butt-hurt when Rossi passed him in the wet race at Le Mans. He messed with his head and he started drifting back. Only a fall by Rossi gave him back what he lost.

    As far as finishing 4th in the championship(some 100 points ahead of Crutchlow) is nothing to sneeze at and something for Rossi to be proud of, considering that two shitbag years he just spent on that crappy Ducati. Which I think if anything vindicates Rossi immensely because, it just goes to show that it was the Bike and not the rider. Sure Stoner is/was the only who could win on a Duacti. Stoner was also the only one to crash out more on a Ducati and willing to ride with the "Win it or Bin it" mentality on the Ducati(which cost him dearly after 2007). Rossi, Hayden, and Dovi aren't/weren't willing to push that POS past its abilities and they'd all much rather walk away from a shitty result, than be carried off on a stretcher with a DNF.

    Really if Rossi can just get the bike he asks for in terms of braking, I really don't think he'd have a problem with Lorenzo getting the most powerful motor and best parts. If Rossi can get the bike he wants to brake the way he wants. We've seen in the past, he'll make due with a weaker and less powerful engine. Look at 2004 when Rossi came to Yamaha. He opted for a very less powerful M1 engine than what Yamaha wanted to put in the bike. He knew, that braking and balance were more important that sheer power and acceleration. He knew that having a bike he would put anywhere he wanted in a corner meant more than smoking everyone down the front straight.

    That's why we've never really seen Rossi clear off and ride like Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa. They all have/had bikes that were powerful and accelerated very hard. But those three have never been known for their dog fighting skills. Most of Rossi's wins came with him dog fighting his way to the front and winning by just a few tenths or maybe a second or two.

    I've always believed that balance, agility and braking will trump power and acceleration. The problem now that Yamaha face, is that Honda have figured out a way to put all of that into a package. They've got the braking, balance and agility. Problem is, Yamaha doesn't have someone who knows how to dog fight and wear people down at the front. Sure Lorenzo can put up a bit of a scrap. But once he can get in front, he tries to break free and leave the person behind him. He doesn't have the stamina to keep up the fight over the entire race.

    I can't count the times I've watched Rossi stalk someone lap after lap. Wearing them down, getting inside their head..

    I know Drano and KawiRob made fun of me in the last thread about Rossi being "Unleashed" but I only have to point to his win in Assen to prove my point. With Lorenzo out of the picture(injured) and Rossi carrying the Yamaha flag into battle. Look at how he shined. He put in a ride like I've seen him ride in the past. He was unstoppable that day. But again, I think Yamaha saw his potential at Assen and the subsequent races that followed you could tell that something had happened and his bike was as competitive as it was on that day in Assen.

    Again, let the conspiracy theory kick in. But I don't know what happened, whether it be team orders saying, "o.k. you've had your day in the sun this year, now time for Jorge to come back.", or they dialed his bike back, didn't give him the right parts or less performing parts. Or they just flat out said, "when Jorge is healthy, you don't come anywhere close to him on race day. Just be thankful you're back on a competitive bike and enjoy it, type thing..."

    Which if the theory is true and Yamaha truly are hampering his potential, why I said that if he does manage to get a bike that performs the way he wants it, brakes the way that inspires confidence in him. Then I say go for broke and win as many races as possible. Try to earn a 10th Championship and if he can pull it off. As soon as the final race was over, I'd tell Yamaha to pound sand and then retire on the spot.
    Quite an interesting piece of fiction. A great read on a very beautiful sunday morning
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    Quite an interesting piece of fiction. A great read on a very beautiful sunday morning
    thank you, that's very helpful...
    Last edited by The Black Knight; Sun Nov 10th, 2013 at 10:15 AM.
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    "

    "Finish today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."




  10. #10
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Fiction you say? Please share your piece of mind.
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    Senior Member kawasakirob's Avatar
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    Re: (Spoiler!!) MotoGP Valencia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post

    I know Drano and KawiRob made fun of me in the last thread about Rossi being "Unleashed" but I only have to point to his win in Assen to prove my point.
    All in good fun.
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