Denver/COS or online rifle sales

[Captain Obvious]

Decided I wanted to get a budget rifle. Leaning towards .223 but not set. Intent is to be a flexible rifle for varmits, rabbits, and larger, up to deer (perhaps) and definitely paper. Def no interest in anything bigger than deer.

Based on member's experience, does anyone have a local dealer or an online retailer they like for customer service and price?

Thanks

[BushyAR15]

I'm in Metro-Denver, so I don't have any real experience with COS shops….

I'm not a hunter (yet), but hunting laws will dictate the type of rifle you can use. Meaning you can't use an AR-15 to hunt given their "capability". Caliber will be a consideration as well. I'm sure there are hunters on here that can help you better

Since you are looking for a hunting rifle as opposed to some "specialty" rifle I'd recommend watching ads and finding the best price even if its from Cabelas, Bass Pro, or Sportsman's Warehouse.

[The Black Knight]

minimum caliber for deer hunting is .243

[longrider]

There is a gun show in Castle Rock this weekend to check out: http://www.gunshows-colorado.com/

[#1Townie]

There is a tiny place down in fountain called Cimino auto sales. He has a small gun and car lot. He's a great guy who takes pride in his firearms. Very easy to deal with and doesn't feed you any garbage.

[I`m Batman]

I normally find what I want then buy it from http://www.budsgunshop.com they usually have the best price + no tax + free shipping.
I ship them to Rapid Fire Bunker (CSC member business). $15 transfer fee. http://rapidfirebunker.net/contact-us/

[Chris]

If you want it to do all you listed you will need larger then .223 as others have said. What budget are you looking at?

If you want to hunt just deer as far as large game a .243 would be a great choice.

I would go for a .308 if I were you being we live in Colorado you could use it to hunt elk.

Both are way overkill for say rabbits.

Check out the Ruger American, great rifle for the money. Walmart has them for a good price. Keep in mind a decent scope and ring set will run you about $200 on the low end but quality gear.

[Wrider]

Meaning you can't use an AR-15 to hunt given their "capability". Caliber will be a consideration as well.

Not true, you can use an ar15 to hunt game, but big game you are limited to 5 round magazines.

minimum caliber for deer hunting is .243

Close, regs say .24 caliber centerfire rifle for anything antelope or larger, so a .240 is fine too.

If you come up to Bass Pro, I'll be more than happy to help you pick out a rifle or make some recommendations. Look for the big guy behind the gun counter.

That said, .270 is a great caliber for coyotes (115 grain rounds) clear up to elk (150 grain rounds).

[Matrix]

I am a big fan of GrandPrix. They sell bikes, atv's and guns and do a great job of sponsoring many MRA riders. One of the coolest stores you will ever walk into.

They are south Denver so not a bad commute from COS.

www.grandprixmotorsports.com/
http://www.gpguns.com/

[The Black Knight]

Not true, you can use an ar15 to hunt game, but big game you are limited to 5 round magazines.



Close, regs say .24 caliber centerfire rifle for anything antelope or larger, so a .240 is fine too.

If you come up to Bass Pro, I'll be more than happy to help you pick out a rifle or make some recommendations. Look for the big guy behind the gun counter.

That said, .270 is a great caliber for coyotes (115 grain rounds) clear up to elk (150 grain rounds).

True, very true. My mistake(I've only dealt with large magnum caliber hunting rifles, 7mag, 300 win, 300 ultra, etc). I mentioned .243 as it's the more common round. I've honestly never seen a rifle chambered in .240, to me that's a rare round.

[rforsythe]

For the use case presented here, .243 is going to be about right. .270 is a fantastic deer round, but is going to blow varmint/rabbits into instant stew. Even a .243 is a little big for those (a .22 is actually fine for small game like that) but will work.

The Ruger American someone suggested are good rifles. Also look at the Savage. I'm quite fond of my Winchester Model 70 .270, but they cost quite a bit more now than when I purchased it, so that's probably out of the "budget" category for you.

[The Black Knight]

For the use case presented here, .243 is going to be about right. .270 is a fantastic deer round, but is going to blow varmint/rabbits into instant stew. Even a .243 is a little big for those (a .22 is actually fine for small game like that) but will work.

The Ruger American someone suggested are good rifles. Also look at the Savage. I'm quite fond of my Winchester Model 70 .270, but they cost quite a bit more now than when I purchased it, so that's probably out of the "budget" category for you.

I agree, any .22 caliber will do fine for varmints. .223 will work fine too(as it's really a .22). Barnes came out a few years back with their Varmint Grenade bullets. And yeah, they pretty much just grenade stuff when they hit it. I'm not a varmint hunter, but if you've got a colony of prairie dogs that needs some ethnic cleansing, pick any .22 or .223 and give it hell.

[Wrider]

True, very true. My mistake(I've only dealt with large magnum caliber hunting rifles, 7mag, 300 win, 300 ultra, etc). I mentioned .243 as it's the more common round. I've honestly never seen a rifle chambered in .240, to me that's a rare round.

Oh yeah definitely a rare round, only one I've ever seen in person is the .240 Weatherby magnum.

Also agreed with Ralph on the .270 being big for varmints.

In general you'll need two different calibers for that wide of a range of game.

My personal recommendations would be a .17HMR for the small game through coyotes (considering you can find it), and a .270 or 30-06 for larger game (I, like Ralph, have a Win model 70 in .270 that I love, and I've dropped an elk with it easily.)

[GMR]

.50 BMG FTW

[rforsythe]

.50 BMG FTW

That would be an effective varmint rifle as well...

[Captain Obvious]

Ha, okay, so fair enough on on the range of size in the first is a bit too wide for a single rifle. Definitely leaning to the smaller end. Will do on budsgunshop.

Chris, baseline budget <$400 without scope unless the budget is just too low. Like I said, this is just to get into shooting rifles, perhaps some varmint action, but paper and back into shooting. I have seen decent reviews on the savage, which is what set the "budget". Ruger Am, will look into.

[Aaron]

Personally I'd vote for an AR-15 in 5.56/2.23. With good ammunition, a properly specced rifle, and relatively close range (A few hundred yards), I think a 5.56/2.23 could be effective against deer. Plus it is more versatile than anything else mentioned here. It's light weight, can be easily modified/upgraded to your tastes, and cannot be beat for home defense. And if you want to go for bigger game, just swap the upper receiver and have a big bore AR in 5 minutes.

However your budget would probably need to be around $1,000 at least to get into an AR.

[The Black Knight]

Personally I'd vote for an AR-15 in 5.56/2.23. With good ammunition, a properly specced rifle, and relatively close range (A few hundred yards), I think a 5.56/2.23 could be effective against deer. Plus it is more versatile than anything else mentioned here. It's light weight, can be easily modified/upgraded to your tastes, and cannot be beat for home defense. And if you want to go for bigger game, just swap the upper receiver and have a big bore AR in 5 minutes.

However your budget would probably need to be around $1,000 at least to get into an AR.

The problem is, it's not a matter of what you think might be effective. It's a D.O.W. requirement/law(if you will) that dictates what caliber is minimum requirement for taking down "Big Game". Like it or not, Deer are classified as big game. Colorado DOW state that a .24 caliber or bigger round must be used. Also, you must use a round that has expanding capabilities(i.e. a jacketed hollow point). Most ammunition for 5.56/.223 is usually in the realm of FMJ(not all of it, believe me I know. I've reloaded hundreds of .223 in the past using all sorts of bullets).

The reasoning behind specific caliber requirements is muzzle energy and ballistics. The ability of the round to deliver a killing blow to the animal. Can a .223 kill a deer? Yes. May it take more than a couple rounds to do if you don't place a bullet in a vital? More than likely. So unless you plan on delivering a headshot with a .223, chances are you may have to shoot the animal more than once. Which then will start to ruin the meat as the adrenaline within the animal starts flowing. Once adrenaline goes into the animals system it will start to ruin the meat, giving it at ultra gamey type flavor(unless you love real wild flavor).

If you compare the ballistics of a .223 vs a .243 you'll see a wide difference in actual muzzle energy. Most .223 rounds deliver around 1200ft lbs of muzzle energy, whereas a .243 can achieve muzzle energy in excess of 2000ft lbs. .243's are also faster than .223's, which in turn enhances the performance of the .243 round. Aside from breaking out my reloading books, I know that usually a .243 will also have a better coefficient than the .223, giving it better performance, trajectory and more energy at distance. The .223 tends to run out of steam after about 300yds. Not that it doesn't have a better range than that(because they do), but we're talking killing wild animals and not humans here. Wild animals react completely different when shot, then what a person would. The 5.56/.223 is a man stopper for sure, but not much else in terms of big game.

For example, the .270 is a classic deer round. However, it's a little thin in terms of taking Elk. Can it be done or has it been done?? Yes, thousands of times. But if you compare the ballistics of a .270 to say a 7 mag, you'll see enormous performances differences. Most .270's are lucky to get to or past 2500ft lbs of muzzle energy and their rate of decay as they travel also lose a lot of steam over "X amount" of yardage. My 7mm with factory ammunition will deliver easily 3200-3300ft lbs of muzzle energy, with custom reloading, I've pushed mine as high as 3700ft lbs and around 3500 to 3600ft per sec. The 7mm also has a straighter flight path, plus it's one of those rounds that loses it's muzzle energy slowly and has effective knock down ranges of 1000+ yrds with the right load.

If given the choice between a .270 or a 7mm, I'd take the 7mm because of it's ability to deliver better kills at longer ranges. Closer range, it's a given it's going to drop an animal(not that a .270 wouldn't at close range either).

Lastly, a quick little fun fact for you. In Africa, their laws require no smaller than a .375 H&H mag for hunting what is called "Dangerous Game"(i.e. Lions). In North America we have nothing that's classified as "Dangerous Game" other than a Kodiak or Grizzly and a .375 H&H mag is pretty much overkill for anything smaller than a moose. However, in Africa it's the bottom of the barrel in terms of what calibers can be used. And using you're thought process, sure a .7mm, .300 win mag or .300 ultra mag could kill a Lion. But if I were hunting Dangerous Game, do you really think I'm going to push the limits just to prove a point when hunting a male Lion?? Absolutely not. I'd even be leery of using a .375 H&H mag against a Lion.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Shit!! My Powerline .17 pellet gun @ 1,050 fps is all you need.

[rifleshooter]

I agree, any .22 caliber will do fine for varmints. .223 will work fine too(as it's really a .22). Barnes came out a few years back with their Varmint Grenade bullets. And yeah, they pretty much just grenade stuff when they hit it. I'm not a varmint hunter, but if you've got a colony of prairie dogs that needs some ethnic cleansing, pick any .22 or .223 and give it hell.

I'm sorry, but the expression "ethnic cleansing" as applied to prairie dog populations made me shoot expensive single-malt Speyburn scotch out of my nose.

You owe me.

[rybo]

I had a savage in .223 for awhile. Synthetic stock, heavy barrel, accu-trigger and a decent scope. It was a great rifle especially for the price.


Under 400 isn't going to get you far in the land of semi autos, but based on your requirements I would strongly suggest that you consider a ruger 10/22. Cheap to buy, cheap to shoot good resale value if you decide it's not for you.

[#1Townie]

Yeah a 223 is not really all that great for varmints. Kind of a waste of money... I would just do a 22. 100 bucks plus another 100 for ammo and you are good for months. Unless you're ruthless and are in this for the brutal kill... then get a 308 or larger...