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Thread: Xeon vs. i7

  1. #1
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Xeon vs. i7

    I'm looking at some Dell Workstations for CAD and...

    I'm trying to figure out if Xeon is better. In the old days it was the shit, but I'm seeing that the i7 might be better. So, why are the Xeon machines more expensive? Also, the clock speeds on the Xeons are confusing. An E5-2630, 6-core, 2.6GHz is $5,200 cheaper than the Dual E5-2670,10-core, 2.5GHz. They add cores, slow down the clock and jack the hell out of the price. All the Xeon machines show a slightly lower processor rating than the machines with i7 CPUs. And, the i7 machines are waaaay cheaper but, their recommendations for CAD systems are Xeon CPUs.

    Also, are solid state drives noticeably faster? Like, big-time faster?

    Anyone, anyone....
    Kim & Dean
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  2. #2

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    I think the zeon has a bigger processor cache and some bus is also bigger. the i7 is pretty fast and way cheaper, I have an i7 w/ssd if you want to come and try it

  3. #3
    Senior Member birchyboy's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    I support an actuary that has both an i7 workstation (16gb RAM, 1TB drives) and a dual Xeon workstation (48GB ram, 256 SSD). He is very sensitive to anything that slows his work down, which is primarily Excel 2007/2010 spreadsheets and Statistica work. The i7 absolutely stomps the Xeon workstation, but I think has more to do with how Excel utilizes the processors for VBA than anything else. I have tested 64 bit Excel on a dual Xeon server, and when configured correctly Excel can be much faster if VBA isn't involved.

    SSD's can be the shit for reading massive amounts of data. I haven't done much in the way of formal testing, but I like them.

    All that said, if I were you I'd focus on users groups for the software that you are using and try to cull out what other users recommend.

  4. #4
    I'm pumped... Let's let the healing begin! Lifetime Supporter ~Barn~'s Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    SSHDs > Dope processors
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  5. #5
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by birchyboy View Post
    I support an actuary that has both an i7 workstation (16gb RAM, 1TB drives) and a dual Xeon workstation (48GB ram, 256 SSD). He is very sensitive to anything that slows his work down, which is primarily Excel 2007/2010 spreadsheets and Statistica work. The i7 absolutely stomps the Xeon workstation, but I think has more to do with how Excel utilizes the processors for VBA than anything else. I have tested 64 bit Excel on a dual Xeon server, and when configured correctly Excel can be much faster if VBA isn't involved.

    SSD's can be the shit for reading massive amounts of data. I haven't done much in the way of formal testing, but I like them.

    All that said, if I were you I'd focus on users groups for the software that you are using and try to cull out what other users recommend.
    Stomps it, ay! That's what I was afraid of. It probably is how the software uses the CPU. Just about every high-end CAD station is using Xeon, where office machines use i7. I'm strictly CAD (AutoCAD, 3-D Studio, Revit, Solid Works). The problems with user groups are the people that know the software never know anything about the hardware and vice-versa.
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  6. #6
    Say what again... Site Admin rforsythe's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    Stomps it, ay! That's what I was afraid of. It probably is how the software uses the CPU. Just about every high-end CAD station is using Xeon, where office machines use i7. I'm strictly CAD (AutoCAD, 3-D Studio, Revit, Solid Works). The problems with user groups are the people that know the software never know anything about the hardware and vice-versa.
    Might be worth calling Autodesk and asking them what they recommend. They might have optimized it for one chip over another.
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  7. #7
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Barn~ View Post
    SSHDs > Dope processors
    Are you saying it's better to have SSD than the latest CPU? Should we discuss this over lunch (with a view, of course)?
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  8. #8
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by rforsythe View Post
    Might be worth calling Autodesk and asking them what they recommend. They might have optimized it for one chip over another.
    They just list minimum specs for all their software, which my ten-year-old box smokes. I'll email them and ask them specifically if there is a better CPU over another for their ware's.
    Kim & Dean
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  9. #9

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    They just list minimum specs for all their software, which my ten-year-old box smokes. I'll email them and ask them specifically if there is a better CPU over another for their ware's.
    sure, you will get a canned response from the help desk, you are welcome to come try it with a large file on my machine (Lone Tree)
    Last edited by Native; Fri Jan 24th, 2014 at 10:58 AM.

  10. #10
    Chief Viffer Lifetime Supporter dirkterrell's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    It depends greatly on the specifics of what you do. For my work (floating point codes that peg the cpu for long periods of time), the Xeons have an edge. The E5-2687 and E5-2697 are smoking chips for floating point, and if you can make use of the additional cores, the 2697 is where it's at. The only way to really know what's best for you is to see benchmarks done using the software you use. And SSDs are nice if you're moving lots of data around. A RAM disk might be useful in certain situations. I use all three approaches depending on what I'm doing.
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  11. #11
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    sure, you will get a canned response from the help desk, you are welcome to come try it with a large file on my machine
    I really appreciate that, but it would be over two hours to install and customize to see how it really runs. Basic install is well under an hour, but without the custom programs and other items, it wouldn't be a 'real world' test.
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  12. #12
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by dirkterrell View Post
    A RAM disk might be useful in certain situations. I use all three approaches depending on what I'm doing.
    I've was using RAM disk in 1990. Wrote a cool little script for the AutoExec to execute on start-up. Took a while to copy everything to and fro... but it definitely sped up the machines back then. Haven't messed with it since about 1995. Aren't SSDs basically today's RAM disk?

    Looks like I'll be purchasing the Precision T7610 - Not too bad @ $3,100:

    Intel® Xeon® Processor E5-2630 v2 (Six Core HT, 2.6GHz Turbo, 15 MB)
    32GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1866MHz
    3 GB NVIDIA Quadro K4000 (2DP & 1DVI-I) (2DP-DVI & 1DVI-VGA adapter)
    Kim & Dean
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  13. #13

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    I really appreciate that, but it would be over two hours to install and customize to see how it really runs. Basic install is well under an hour, but without the custom programs and other items, it wouldn't be a 'real world' test.
    point taken, I have only 50GB left on my hd, maybe just get the i7 w/ssd. just like our bikes, the Ducati or BMW will cost you 3x

  14. #14
    Chief Viffer Lifetime Supporter dirkterrell's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    Aren't SSDs basically today's RAM disk?
    Similar in many respects, but RAM will usually be faster at the expense of volatility. Again, it depends on what you're doing whether one is better than the other.
    Formerly MRA #211 - High Precision Racing

    "A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

    --Thomas Jefferson



  15. #15

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    I've was using RAM disk in 1990. Wrote a cool little script for the AutoExec to execute on start-up. Took a while to copy everything to and fro... but it definitely sped up the machines back then. Haven't messed with it since about 1995. Aren't SSDs basically today's RAM disk?

    Looks like I'll be purchasing the Precision T7610 - Not too bad @ $3,100:

    Intel® Xeon® Processor E5-2630 v2 (Six Core HT, 2.6GHz Turbo, 15 MB)
    32GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1866MHz
    3 GB NVIDIA Quadro K4000 (2DP & 1DVI-I) (2DP-DVI & 1DVI-VGA adapter)
    jeez, that thing it freakin heathy, why does the ssd add $5k?

  16. #16
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    jeez, that thing it freakin heathy, why does the ssd add $5k?
    The $5K more gets you dual Xeon ten-core CPUs, 64Gb RAM, 4Gb K5000 Video and two 256 Mb SSD's. You would never have to buy another computer!
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  17. #17
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by dirkterrell View Post
    Similar in many respects, but RAM will usually be faster at the expense of volatility. Again, it depends on what you're doing whether one is better than the other.
    That was always the problem with RAM disk. One hick-up and EVERYTHING is goooone!!!!!!
    Kim & Dean
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  18. #18

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    That was always the problem with RAM disk. One hick-up and EVERYTHING is goooone!!!!!!
    the ssd is way better, and definitely much faster (than an HD)

  19. #19
    Chief Viffer Lifetime Supporter dirkterrell's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    That was always the problem with RAM disk. One hick-up and EVERYTHING is goooone!!!!!!
    Yeah, you have to use them the right way. Nothing that can't be easily recreated should be on a RAM disk. I use them, for example, when processing astronomical images. The processing creates intermediate files that I don't ultimately care about. I just want the final one. So, I do all that intermediate processing in a RAM disk and then write the final one to something non-volatile.
    Formerly MRA #211 - High Precision Racing

    "A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."

    --Thomas Jefferson



  20. #20

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    they used to have a hardware equivalent to an ssd back in the 90's. It used ram chips and was very expensive. you could use it when there was no other solution for performance

  21. #21
    I'm pumped... Let's let the healing begin! Lifetime Supporter ~Barn~'s Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean View Post
    <Snip...> You would never have to buy another computer!


    Yeah.. Just like back when I was a kid and we purchased our first home PC - A Packard Bell desktop with a 500MB HDD - and my Uncle (An HP employee at the time) proclaims to me... "Wow! You're never going to be able to fill that thing up!"

    Truth is, there's processing power that's going to be needed for technologies that we don't even know are going to exist on the consumer front in 10... 20 years from now; same thing with storage requirements. Full holographic rendering and immersion anybody? Anyway... just sayin'.
    ~Brandon~
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    Melissa Holbrook Pierson

  22. #22
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Barn~ View Post


    Yeah.. Just like back when I was a kid and we purchased our first home PC - A Packard Bell desktop with a 500MB HDD - and my Uncle (An HP employee at the time) proclaims to me... "Wow! You're never going to be able to fill that thing up!"

    Truth is, there's processing power that's going to be needed for technologies that we don't even know are going to exist on the consumer front in 10... 20 years from now; same thing with storage requirements. Full holographic rendering and immersion anybody? Anyway... just sayin'.
    I was meaning more along the lines of what I use computers for. My current machine is ten-years old and still hauls ass (knowing how to set up 'processes' and 'services' can really free up a lot of speed). I bought the most computer that I could back then, knowing it would last a long time. The only reason I'm getting a new one is because MS stops XP support on April 8th and AutoCAD 2014 is the last version that AutoDesk will support on XP. So, since I have AutoCAD 2015 and my current machine is ten-years old....
    Kim & Dean
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  23. #23

    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Pentium 2?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suki View Post
    ...i mean, sure maybe 4 inches isn't much to them, but it sure as hell is alot to me!



  24. #24
    Gold Member Kim-n-Dean's Avatar
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    Re: Xeon vs. i7

    Quote Originally Posted by I`m Batman View Post
    Pentium 2?
    Nope. Although, my original computer, a first gen. Pentium 120MHz running Linux hauls some serious ass, too.

    My current box is a P4, 3.4GHz, 3 Gb RAM, GeForce 6800 256 Mb Video. The key is disabling most of the three-hundred some Win services that you don't need.
    Kim & Dean
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