Going to have to track some of this down. Hopefully they end up relesing a .380 version
Going to have to track some of this down. Hopefully they end up relesing a .380 version
Seen this. If it hits the shelves it's going to be expensive and probably won't be long before it's yanked. No one wants people walking around with 30 magazine clips full of scary looking ghost bullets.
I've got more flavor than a packet of macaroni.
Nice! I use a similar all copper rounds from Lehigh Defense. But I went with the Maximum Expansion instead of Controlled Facturing rounds since the base have a higher chance to over penetrate after the pedals are gone.
Originally Posted by Suki
I'm with Jmetz- I've already penned a lengthy letter, outlining my concerns and fears. Thank you for shedding some light on this. I'm quite certain our representatives will do their job and rid the streets of these before its too late.
From one concerned citizen to another, thank you.
_________
09 zx6r
Nate
Unfortunately we do live in Calirado.
They will ban it, everyone will run to the shelves to get it and 100,000 more people will have stock piles of it.
I read an interesting stat the other day. Colorados gun applications for last year was 600,000. Up 60% from 2012. That is crazy!
True that, ha ha. I often think about moving to California and F-ing up their state...if that's even possible. I can't even afford ammo as it is, let alone the good stuff. Alas, the government probably has 1 billion rounds on pre-order..
_________
09 zx6r
Nate
Oh yeah I can see these getting banned quick. Every cop on the street will have them but not the rest of us. Looks too scary.
Crazy part is that they're less lethal than FMJs to anyone wearing Kevlar, but will definitely be touted as "killer bullets" to anybody that doesn't know ballistics and wants to ban things.
Have owned: '01 Volusia
Currently own: '05 Z750S
I agree completely. These are perfect for home defense (assuming that the fragments wouldnt penetrate multiple walls) but anyone wearing type of protection would have fair odds with these.
They didnt do themselves that much of a favor by calling them "R.I.P."
They do look scary! Therefore, will be banned!
Save a fortune and score your existing FMJ's. Also, look up "cut shells" for shotguns. Turns bird-shot into slugs...
Kim & Dean
60th Anniversary R6 - '16 R1M
.
I was curious just how expensive it would be. The manufacturer states that Dixie Ammo Dump is the place to buy it, however they have no listings.
$45 for 20 rounds. So $2.25/round.
I've got more flavor than a packet of macaroni.
The narrator of the video need to put down the Marlboros.
~Brandon~
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We don't use fragmenting handgun rounds, however the .223/5.56 do fragment. In the two rifle shootings I've seen close details of, both were skinny makes who took rounds to the chest. Not a single bullet or fragment over-penetrated on either subject (One guy took one round, the other 9). Of the guy that took 9, three of the rifle rounds were FMJ, and all 3 over-penetrated dangerously.
Do those who use weapons for home defense. You are responsible for your shots, no matter where they go, where you intended for them to go, or who they hurt. I hope not a single one of you uses FMJ ammunition or slugs/buckshot in your shotguns. Buy a box of expensive hollow-points like this or anything else.
Just at first glance, what do you think these would do? Multiple walls of dry wall?
I'm no expert, and visuals don't mean much. The fragmenting 5.56 ammo I use appears to be nothing more than an average hollow point. It's very casual in appearance, in fact it hardly looks like a hollow point at all. These rounds obviously look devastating, and I don't imagine they'd do nice things in a wound cavity.
That being said, here are my concerns. The shape of the round influences accuracy to a significant extent. I worry they won't be quite as accurate as some of the other handgun rounds out there simply because their shape is not aerodynamic. But let's be realistic, is 1/2" at 10yds really a big deal for a handgun used in self defense? I'd say hardly. My second concern is that as far as I know, the manufacturer has yet to create a name for themselves. I know reputation isn't anything, but I'd trust any anti-personnel round stamped by Federal or Hornady without question. I'm afraid the dangerous appearance of this round is a bigger selling point than anything else right now. Lastly, I'm concerned with it's reliability in weapons that aren't known for smooth feeding, particularly the .40 and 10mm. Both cartridges have a history of feed problems on some platforms, and hollow points exaggerate this. Thee rounds don't appear like they'd help that in the least.
That at all being said, I don't want to get shot by one of these. Give me two hollow points to the gut before you put one of those in my arm. Fragmenting rounds do tremendous amounts of carnage. Even the 5.56, which uses small lightweight rounds obliterate entire chest cavities with a single hit. These appear like each strand would shear off, mushrooming, and then each strand would break into several pieces. It's a recipe for some very, very effective ammunition, as one tiny shard in the right place is all it takes. Just as a 9mm between the eyes beats a 45 to the shin, a tiny shard ripping through brain matter, the spinal cord, or any other immediately needed organ is all it takes to incapacitate a person. I'd have no hesitation using this ammo.
Also, based on looks alone, I'd imagine the round wouldn't be worth a whole lot after one wall penetration (Which is good). I'd guess it'd fragment, in which case it's penetration and velocity decline very quickly. Just as mushroomed hollow-points don't penetrate well, fragmented rounds don't either.
A few more things. I doubt it'll be illegal. Aside from the obvious (Exploding or incinerating rounds), not much is illegal in terms of ammunition in CO. The stuff I use in my rifle, Hornady 5.56 75gr TAP, is legal and from what I've seen the absolute king of AR anti-personnel ballistics. Hornady chooses to sell it to Law Enforcement only, but it's legal to own if you get your hands on it.
As as for the Kevlar argument. No, this ammo won't penetrate well. But very few criminals wear flak jackets. In fact, I've caught hundreds of guns and only a single vest, and it wasn't being worn just inside his car. That, and the vests are designed to stop FMJ rounds. So while this may not penetrate my 3A vest with 4A ceramic plates, neither will any other common handgun cartridge.
Granted, but these would do even less damage to someone (like a cop) wearing even just plain Kevlar. That was my point. These might even fracture off and end up doing less damage due to decreased mass.
You're right, but even a plain 2A vest will stop 90% of all handgun rounds.
I was thinking if I ran these that I would alternate every other bullet.
Little more follow up on these, looking forward to seeing them tested.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/g2-r-i-...ck-or-godsend/
Interesting. I agree with him about everything, sans the liability part. Having been involved in several gun related court cases, and seeing Officers go through similar things, the type of ammunition won't be an issue if yor lawyer has half a brain. Just find someone certifiable as an expert witness to testify that this round had the highest likelihood of immediate incapacitation and you're cleared. I'm not sure when society got the idea that using more lethal devices to kill someone was somehow worse, but the courts have not. My ammunition has the highest likelihood of immediately stopping the threat. Unfortunately, this stoppage generally is not consistent with life.
We were trained by a District Court Judge and a District Attorney on liability when it comes to lethal force. Once the situation rises to the level in which lethal force is justifiably needed, the means in which you incapacitate the threat are not relevant. One case we studied was where an Officer was slowly driving down the street in a marked car, and the suspect he was looking for ran in front of the car, firing at the Officer. The Officer mashed the throttle, hitting the guy with the 4,000lb car at 45mph or so. The cop then put the car in reverse, and ran back over the guy again. Properly explained, this is perfectly legal and appropriate. The Officer was of cleared of any wrong doing.
If you are in a position of justifiable homicide, the means are not relevant unless the other side can prove your weapon was chosen proximately for it's cruel and pain inflicting capabilities. You'll have a hard time convincing a jury you put down your gun and grabbed your wife's chains and whips to protect yourself with. But picking the sharpest, most deadly knife out of the drawer was not done to inflict pain, but for it presented the weapon best suited to immediately stop the threat.
Nope.
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