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Thread: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

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    Senior Member JustSomeDude's Avatar
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    Question MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Just curious what the vibe is around here regarding the new Open Class in MotoGP. I haven't been around the board much since selling my ride during the recession, and getting bored of the parade that MotoGP turned into. However, this Open Class has me pretty amped about watching racing again. With Ducati signing on, Espargaro already being competitive, and Kawasaki and Suzuki likely suitors for 2015, I think the grid could get pretty interesting, and damn competitive. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the control ECU becoming mandatory for everyone at some point (which Ezpeleta has indicated will eventually happen).

    For years it seemed the universal complaint was, "Get rid of the electronics, let the racers race." If everyone has the same electronics package, I think that satisfies the argument and essentially levels the playing field. Exciting times.

    What are the thoughts among other CSC members? I'm just curious.

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    Member guambra2001's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Can know for sure until the season starts but the way it's been looking I think it's a good idea.

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    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    The riders on open bikes seem to be more competitive or at least it showed during practices. Can't wait for Qatar, this season should be way better.
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSomeDude View Post
    Just curious what the vibe is around here regarding the new Open Class in MotoGP. I haven't been around the board much since selling my ride during the recession, and getting bored of the parade that MotoGP turned into. However, this Open Class has me pretty amped about watching racing again. With Ducati signing on, Espargaro already being competitive, and Kawasaki and Suzuki likely suitors for 2015, I think the grid could get pretty interesting, and damn competitive. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the control ECU becoming mandatory for everyone at some point (which Ezpeleta has indicated will eventually happen).

    For years it seemed the universal complaint was, "Get rid of the electronics, let the racers race." If everyone has the same electronics package, I think that satisfies the argument and essentially levels the playing field. Exciting times.

    What are the thoughts among other CSC members? I'm just curious.
    Open Class in my opinion is a good idea and a step in the right direction. Way better bikes than the CRT's(which weren't competitive at all).

    The only issue I have with the Open Class is why do they get to run a special "Soft" tire compared to the full factory teams. If the bikes they are running are basically Prototypes in and of themselves, then they should be forced to deal with the same tires the factory teams use. I understand that they get to use 24L of fuel and run the compulsory ECU, but the tires should be the same for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind giving them a "Softer" tire as it's been said they can't generate enough heat like the Factory bikes do. Although from the testing, it seems to me that the Open Class bikes(a few of them anyway) have no problem running the same or close to the same times as their Factory rivals, so that would tell me they are able to generate enough heat, given the times they are posting.

    Now if they had the same tire options as the Factory guys, their times may be less, but I'd like to see them run the Hard & medium tires that the Factory teams get. They do use a Factory "Soft" but it's considered the Open Class "Hard" option.

    If they are what they say they are(customer bikes), produce power figures just under a full factory bike and are basically just a prototype without some of the secret tech that they Factory's use(i.e. Seamless gearbox, Pneumatic valves). Then I'd like to see them on Factory compulsory rubber.

    Give them the extra fuel as their mapping won't allow for the factory data compiled and won't allow for the custom mapping of each track, like the factory teams have the ability to do. I get that and I'm all for them having more fuel with less ECU.

    That being said, I don't think they are going to be as competitive once the flag drops and it's time to go race distance. You'll see Espargaro and the Ducati guys up there, but they will fade compared to the Honda and Yamaha teams. Will they be closer?? Oh yeah, more closer than last year. But if you look at their lap analysis, you'll see during race simulations, they don't have the lapping consistency that the Factory teams do. They are capable of cutting a few hot laps, but their tires start to fade and so will they during the race.

    Honestly, and I'll call my shot right now. But I think if what I'm seeing(based on Sepang I & II test, Phillip Island test is going on right now as we speak) is true, I'm guessing we are going to see more of Valentino, less of Lorenzo, and Marquez will be the man to beat. I also think that if Rossi got the bike he's been asking for, and test times seem to point to that. He's fixed his braking issues and hasn't experienced near the tire problems that Lorenzo has. I honestly think the battle for the title this year will be between Rossi and Marquez, with Lorenzo and Pedrosa in the mix.

    Lorenzo was closer to Rossi and Marquez during Sepang I, but got completely smoked by Rossi and everyone else in Sepang II. Obviously his tire problems were to blame. But if he can't fix them or get completely comfortable with the now "2014 Only" Bridgestone tire, he's going to have problems. That being said, Lorenzo is leading right now at Phillip Island. But it's early, and who knows what they are working on. The Phillip Island test was mainly for the riders to test the new Bridgestone's at PI, because of the abrasiveness of PI and Bridgestone didn't want a repeat of PI last year.

    Lastly, I'd love to see Kawasaki and Suzuki return. As it stands now, all of MotoGP will be "Open Class" by 2017, as per Dorna's rules. So it's only a matter of time before the factory teams are long gone and the new "Open Class" customer bikes will fill the grid. I think this will help the smaller factory's like Kawasaki and Suzuki. Both of whom, don't have the money that Honda does. So they will be a bit more competitive. If everyone follows suit and builds their bikes in the same vein as Yamaha did(basically offer a M1, without a few bells and whistles), than I think Kawasaki and Suzuki will offer great bikes and it will be a chance for them to get back into MotoGP and launch their platform.

    With the control ECU, it means less electronics and less Formula 1 style racing. Whereas now, they(Factory teams) can map a lap down to each corner, then download it into the bike and go racing. Yeah, that's all fine and dandy for Formula 1, where you have mandatory tires that have to be used, and two or three pit stops. In F1, it's required because of the way the cars butcher the tires within 12 laps. They consume way more fuel than a MotoGP bike, so pit stops for tires/fuel are necessary.

    MotoGP is the pinnacle of motorcycle racing but it's always been about the rider and less about the bike. I remember when I first really got into MotoGP(2000, though I watched races on and off since 1999), back then it was anybody's race. Factory teams fought against satellite teams. Everyone was good back then and on any given day, a different rider could win. Now, it's more F1 style. You've got the so called "aliens" that go out in front and are robotic about their lapping. Every lap, within a tenth of the last one. Yet, the newer riders lack dog-fighting skills. That was something you'd see back when I started watching. It was all about "rubbin is racin" and may the guy who wants it the most win. Not the whole, blah blah, so and so rider won by 12 seconds and produced a dominating race. Only reason they are so dominant is because everyone else are on crappy bikes so far behind.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. The new crop of riders are amazing. They're extremely fast and extremely gifted. They can achieve speeds the old guys dreamed of. But they lack viscous dog-fighting skills. The new riders are so used to being in the front, if they get banged up a bit, they cry it's dangerous.

    Really, I'd like to see MotoGP return to the 990cc era bikes or the "All or Nothing" rockets of the 500cc era, when the only TC the riders had back then, was their right hand... Then, we may actually get some real edge of the seat type racing...
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    What the hell is going on with the Factory Jamahas... I am not impressed... at least so far !
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    What the hell is going on with the Factory Jamahas... I am not impressed... at least so far !
    it's the tires man, even the factory Repsol guys were struggling in FP1 and FP2. Open guys get the soft and more fuel, so I'm sure it's affecting the Factory guys a lot. Rossi and Pedrosa were the only two factory guys being consistent. Marquez is nursing his leg and Lorenzo is pissed!! Even though in FP3 Lorenzo did manage to get ahead of Rossi I read that he was pushing as hard as he could and is worried about stability.

    It will change come race time. I think the Open Class bikes are good and fast but we need to see how they manage their tires. Should fair for some excellent racing. Everyone will be bunched up early and the top guys will have to fight through the pack. Hopefully this will curb the usual check out by lap 3 of Lorenzo and Pedrosa. I'd rather see those two learn some dog fighting skills, than speed off into the distance.

    P.S.
    also remember that the guys at the top already did testing here just two weeks ago. They have tons more data from testing. The factory teams were at Phillip Island doing the pointless Bridgestone test and lost valuable test time in Qatar.

    What I can't figure out is why Lorenzo placed 7th in the combined times yet was slower than Rossi in FP1&2 but somehow Rossi was relegated to 10th in combined practice times. I may have to go and look at those numbers again as I was sure Rossi was the quicker of the two in both early practice sessions.
    Last edited by The Black Knight; Fri Mar 21st, 2014 at 02:13 PM.
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  7. #7
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Definitely interesting watching the practice rounds and what not, Espargaro is flying! His confidence is great and he could well take this first race. This makes things way more interesting for sure, I'm following things very closely and we'll see how they fix the grip problems tomorrow before qualifiers. It's going to be an awesome race Sunday
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    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    My money is on Pedro for a top 2 finish on race day. My money is also on Lorenzo for a top 2 finish on race day.
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    Senior Member sag's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    soooo freakin pumped!!! aleix crashed TWICE in qualifying wtf man?!?
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  10. #10
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    yeah it's insane the top 12 are all covered by a little more than half a second. I believe Pol was .687 off Marquez. Very close times..
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  11. #11
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Very good qualifying round, my ass that Marquez isn't 100% lol, what if he really wasn't haha... sucks espargaro crashed twice, he's not used to the pace yet.
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    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Looking at the top 6, i wonder who will get the holeshot... I think order will be restored.....
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    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    What it'll come down to is the tire life. The satellite teams will have advantage in the short of it but we'll see how they manage that toward the end. Lorenzo is always known to just shoot off into the distance and get some gap going but with Marquez there it'll be hard. Hopefully Bautista wont take out Rossi hahaha... Can't wait for tomorrow!
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Guess the old man ain't that old
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    Member KennyFish's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Anyone surprised to see Lorenzo go down before getting the first lap down?
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by KennyFish View Post
    Anyone surprised to see Lorenzo go down before getting the first lap down?
    yes and no, he's desperate to break away and show Marquez a thing or two. He's also worried about Rossi, because of Rossi's renewed vigor and speed. Lorenzo hates these new Bridgestones and it showed throughout testing, practice, qualifying and the race. Regardless of where he qualified, this was going to be a tough one for Lorenzo. This race did have a lot of attrition though. Lots of riders crashing out..
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Very good qualifying round, my ass that Marquez isn't 100% lol, what if he really wasn't haha... sucks espargaro crashed twice, he's not used to the pace yet.

    Agreed, Marquez put up a hell of a fight with Rossi, they were fighting it out most of the afternoon but really battled with the last 2-3 laps.
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  18. #18
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Rossi had a phenomenal race, he still has it and the bike set up is definitely in the right direction. Intense last few laps, very good battles. Shame for Bradl, Smith and Iannone, they were doing rather well.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Great race. If Rossi had the horsepower, I think it would've been an even closer race, he might have even taken it. You could watch Marquez pull away on every straight.

    I'm worried about the new tires. 5-6 front-running riders down, all low sides after losing the front. All on a very nice track. Now given it's night, first race so competition is high, and everyone has something to prove, but I struggle to think this was all riders pushing too hard.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    yes and no, he's desperate to break away and show Marquez a thing or two. He's also worried about Rossi, because of Rossi's renewed vigor and speed. Lorenzo hates these new Bridgestones and it showed throughout testing, practice, qualifying and the race. Regardless of where he qualified, this was going to be a tough one for Lorenzo. This race did have a lot of attrition though. Lots of riders crashing out..
    I personally don't think he was desperate at all for the reasons you mentioned. He basically did what he did most of last year. I agree with you about the tyres.

    Marquez chasing Bradl reminded me of Laguna Seca.....

    I expect the Hondas to take the next round...
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    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    I personally don't think he was desperate at all for the reasons you mentioned. He basically did what he did most of last year. I agree with you about the tyres.

    Marquez chasing Bradl reminded me of Laguna Seca.....

    I expect the Hondas to take the next round...
    I'll have to agree to disagree. Lorenzo is feeling the pressure. He's in the last year of his current contract and results are going to be demanded, or else find another ride. He also is trying to prove a point to Marquez. He's not a fan of Marquez you can tell that, they tolerate each other but that's about where it ends. He "tried" to do what he did last year and that got him tossed off the bike. Pushed a cold set of tires to the limit and ended up taking a dirtnap for a bit. Lorenzo knew Marquez wasn't 100%(at least before the race everyone thought that) so with smelling blood in the water he wanted to capitalize on that. He knew Rossi was down in 10th, so he wasn't going to pose a threat. So this was Lorenzo's race to lose and lose he did.

    And yes the tires are junk but it is what it is. Either rider around the issues with the tires and learn to adapt the bike to them or risk falling even more. Lorenzo's main weapon is his corner speed, well these new tires don't work well that way. Maybe he needs to shave off some corner speed mentality and use the dive in hard, square it off, stand the bike up and punch it method. I don't know, really can't say what's going through his mind exactly but those seem to point the the culprits.

    Bad tires, Marquez is defending champion, resurgent Rossi. All of which are playing on his mind.

    It is possible that the Honda's will take COTA. It's a big track suited to the Honda. Honestly, I don't care where Rossi places at COTA. Would love to see a good result from him, even a podium would be awesome. But I'd rather see him return to glory in Jerez or better yet, my all time favorite track Mugello.
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  22. #22
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    I'm not going to start making claims that Rossi is "back" until I see some consistent results. He had a podium finish last year at Qatar and Rossi fanboys were screaming the same thing. It's too early in the season to make claims about anything or anyone.

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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    I'm not going to start making claims that Rossi is "back" until I see some consistent results. He had a podium finish last year at Qatar and Rossi fanboys were screaming the same thing. It's too early in the season to make claims about anything or anyone.
    Rossi also wasn't fighting for the win at Qatar last year either. Like it or not, he has way better pace this year than last. Are we going to see Rossi return to dominance? No.. May he win two, three or maybe four races?? Highly likely..
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    Re: MotoGP Open Class - Opinions?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Rossi also wasn't fighting for the win at Qatar last year either. Like it or not, he has way better pace this year than last. Are we going to see Rossi return to dominance? No.. May he win two, three or maybe four races?? Highly likely..
    And I could easily say he was only fighting for a win due to the absence of other riders, but I'm not making that claim. The point I'm making is basic-level statistics. No researcher in their right mind would attempt to claim that their experiment works based off a single sample. Until Rossi makes a consistent showing, I'm not willing to make claims that his "return" has statistical relevance.

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