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Thread: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

  1. #25
    Member milehizx6r's Avatar
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    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    Yes, it would be nice to see Kawasaki get back into GP racing. I would also like to see Nicky finish better than 10th.

  2. #26
    Gold Member salsashark's Avatar
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    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    No need to apologize.
    +1

    I've learned to avoid all social media on F1 weekends until I can watch the race. MotoGP's no different. Usually, since I'm stuck on the East Coast, this is a safe place to mill around in the morning. It didn't help that I decided to go get groceries before watching the race... Caught me by surprise this morning, that's all...
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  3. #27
    Senior Member hcr25's Avatar
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    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    I'm sorry you don't like me sarcastic and immature comment of "douche".
    I thought about what I was going to say before posting what I did.

    You should expect immature responses for doing immature things like posting race results in a thread title. If you don't like them, don't read them. It's not like I posted it in the thread TITLE!

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  4. #28
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    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    Ohhh man. Op is in for a treat around these parts.


    PS... Aaron... I hate you.

  5. #29

    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    On another forum (car forum), if someone posts spoilers about an F1 race without properly disclosing, it's an instant 5 day ban.

  6. #30
    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
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    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    I think this should be a 4 day ban. And forced to share explicit pictures of hot girls. And hot guys for Townie. FTP.

  7. #31
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    Re: Marquez Wins Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I think this should be a 4 day ban. And forced to share explicit pictures of hot girls. And hot guys for Townie. FTP.
    Meh I I just need nipples. No need to waste space...... Dog killer.
    Last edited by #1Townie; Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 08:07 AM.

  8. #32
    Huge Member Site Admin Mother Goose's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Changed the title, just in case there's someone on here that didn't watch the race yet.... LIKE ME. Thanks n00b.


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  9. #33
    Senior Member Moderator Slo's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Was definitely an exciting race...... finally. This is what MotoGP has been missing. For Marquez, who knows, I think it's a combo of obvious talent and machine. Very early but I am already curious to see what comes about for next year.

  10. #34

    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    The last few have been good races for sure. As far as contracts, sure Marquez has already been re-signed, but we're only about a third of the way through the season. Still plenty of time for dealing with next years contracts.

    I'm not convinced that the Honda is massively better than the Yamaha, or that Marquez has a massively better bike than Pedrosa. There have been races on both bigger and tighter tracks, and the results... well I assume you all know. I do think we will be hearing about Marquez for a while though, the kid has talent.

    The time sheet from the following days testing is interesting as well...
    Last edited by blaircsf; Mon Jun 16th, 2014 at 11:45 AM.
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  11. #35
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Simplifying it to a bike vs. rider vs. bike vs. rider scenario isn't quite as black & white as it would seem from what we've witnessed this season so far. From my perspective, some (if not most) of Marquez's wins have come with him likely competing at less than 100% effort. Simply put, I watch him and see events where he's riding to win, while the others are racing to win.

    I wasn't this past Sunday's race but the prior Sunday, where Jorge was actually attacking him and making him press to get the victory. I don't know how many passes there were for the lead in the final 4 laps, but lets just say that it was the first time I thought I was watching Marquez in true "race" mode. If he does have the best bike, so be it... Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. How big of an influence it actually plays I would say is subjective at best.
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  12. #36
    Gold Member salsashark's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    I think Marquez is a sign of things to come. Racers who grew up using bikes w/ advanced electronics. He has the utmost confidence in the machine and what it can do for him, so he's comfortable pushing it farther than the previous generation... Even if they're on the same machines, he doesn't have a frame of reference to impede him doing what he does on the bike. As more younger racers come up from GP2 and 3, the old dogs will fall further back.
    Do not put off living the life you dream of. Next year may never come. If we are always waiting for something to change...
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    Waiting will only leaves us with unrealized dreams and empty wishes.

  13. #37
    Senior Member Ezzzzy1's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Quote Originally Posted by salsashark View Post
    I think Marquez is a sign of things to come. Racers who grew up using bikes w/ advanced electronics. He has the utmost confidence in the machine and what it can do for him, so he's comfortable pushing it farther than the previous generation... Even if they're on the same machines, he doesn't have a frame of reference to impede him doing what he does on the bike. As more younger racers come up from GP2 and 3, the old dogs will fall further back.

    I have no idea what you are talking about

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  14. #38
    Gold Member salsashark's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    exactly...
    Do not put off living the life you dream of. Next year may never come. If we are always waiting for something to change...
    Retirement, the kids to leave home, the weather or the economy, that's not living. That's waiting!
    Waiting will only leaves us with unrealized dreams and empty wishes.

  15. #39
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    I think we're going to continue to see riders coming up from Moto2 that are capable of taking the fight to Marquez. These guys coming up from Moto2 are riding 600s that are only a couple seconds off the pace of the GP bikes from 10 years ago. For instance:
    Fastest Laps:
    MotoGP: Catalunya 2003 - Valentino Rossi - 1:43.927 @ 163.7 Km/h
    (http://resources.motogp.com/files/re...df?v1_96143780)

    Moto2: Catalunya 2013 - Pol Espargaro 1:46.410 @ 159.9 Km/h
    (http://resources.motogp.com/files/re...df?v2_65d33be4)

    These guys coming up from moto2 know how to race, and they know how to battle, because, except for the chassis, they're all basically riding the same bike.
    Top this off with the fact that Moto2 bikes have the bare minimums in terms of electronics. They don't even have TC!
    Moto2™ rules allow for data loggers, ECU and timing transponders supplied by the organiser, with a maximum total cost of the ECU's components set at 650 euros. No other electronic control nor datalogging systems are allowed on the bikes.
    http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Basics/moto2

    Sadly, many of the Moto2 riders coming up to MotoGP haven't been given the golden ticket of a Repsol Honda like Marquez, and so it's hard to really tell how well they are performing in comparison. There is no doubt that they have some growing pains to deal with when they straddle a GP bike. Too much still depends on the capability of the machine on which the rider finds himself in MotoGP, hopefully we'll see a better balance in 2016.

    I disagree about Marquez having a better bike than Pedrosa, to an extent. I think it has more to do with how Marquez has his set up versus his teammate. You could easily tell last year that Marquez continued to use the Moto2 style of backing the bike into the corner. He can ride his RC213V faster and looser than Dani, in most respects, because he sets his bike up to do so. His win at Mugello last week was due to him following Lorenzo around during free practice and then asking his engineers to give him a taller 6th gear. He even said that during his post-race interview.


    This also doesn't take into account the numerous physical ailments a lot of the aliens have dealt with this year; trouble with the new tires; and fuel management issues due to the 21L change. Granted, I don't think anybody has a chance at stealing the championship from Marquez unless he suffers a serious crash and misses a few races. But I think we're going to see a lot of his competitors come back into proper form as the season progresses. As they get their kinks worked out we'll see them actually be able to take the fight to Marquez much like what we saw here at Catalunya and last week in Mugello. I'm all for seeing some more exciting races. There's nothing like holding your breath up to the finish line!

  16. #40
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Looks like Pedrosa may stay in Honda after all:
    http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2014/S...o+keep+Pedrosa
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  17. #41
    Member milehizx6r's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    I truly believe Marc just has the deep will to push the bike harder and has the balls to win. As we all know he crashed in the 2nd practice the day before. He has determination, trust in his crew and the heart and soul to take 1st when he gets passed. The rest of the pack as we saw passed him and immediately he took the lead back. This is a kid who trusts his equipment, has the drive to win and the balls to take it back. Don't tell me that between Dani, Jorge, and Valentino they don't have the equipment nor the crew any less than Marc.

  18. #42
    Senior Member hcr25's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    What does his crashing have to do with his willingness to win? Because he pushed so hard he crashed?
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  19. #43
    Member milehizx6r's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Because he got on the bike the next day and raced & won. He raced with a broken arm the first race of the season. That's determination!!! In my opinion, Marc is the best GP rider this year.

  20. #44
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Quote Originally Posted by milehizx6r View Post
    Because he got on the bike the next day and raced & won. He raced with a broken arm the first race of the season. That's determination!!! In my opinion, Marc is the best GP rider this year.
    You might want to double check your facts before posting. In fact, Marquez's first crash this year happened during the second qualifying session at Catalunya, and he didn't have a broken arm at Qatar, it was a broken leg and happened 6 weeks prior to the race.

    If you want to talk about determination, look at every rider out there. I doubt you could find a single rider on the grid that doesn't have a physical injury of some sort and yet still show up to do the job. For example, Lorenzo crashed at Assen last year in free practice and broke his collarbone, flew home, had surgery on Friday to install a plate, and was back to race on Sunday. Did he win the race? No, he took 5th. But, it's the simple fact that he was even out there at all that is a testament to the grit all of these guys have when it comes to motorcycle racing. They all push through the pain to do what they love.

    Marc Marquez is a talented rider, no doubt about it, and he's blessed to be on a bike and with a team that suits him. Would we be having the same conversation if he had landed a factory Ducati ride? I doubt it, but it's something we'll never know.

  21. #45
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    You might want to double check your facts before posting. In fact, Marquez's first crash this year happened during the second qualifying session at Catalunya, and he didn't have a broken arm at Qatar, it was a broken leg and happened 6 weeks prior to the race.

    If you want to talk about determination, look at every rider out there. I doubt you could find a single rider on the grid that doesn't have a physical injury of some sort and yet still show up to do the job. For example, Lorenzo crashed at Assen last year in free practice and broke his collarbone, flew home, had surgery on Friday to install a plate, and was back to race on Sunday. Did he win the race? No, he took 5th. But, it's the simple fact that he was even out there at all that is a testament to the grit all of these guys have when it comes to motorcycle racing. They all push through the pain to do what they love.

    Marc Marquez is a talented rider, no doubt about it, and he's blessed to be on a bike and with a team that suits him. Would we be having the same conversation if he had landed a factory Ducati ride? I doubt it, but it's something we'll never know.
    I think we might be saying the same things if he were on a Ducati. Look to 2007 when Casey Stoner was on the Ducati. Ducati nailed the newly redesigned 2007 800cc spec bike and clearly had an advantage on the rest of the bikes on the grid. I'm not taking anything away from Stoner's achievements but it was very clear to see his bike in 2007 was the dominant bike on the grid in terms of power. Was it as forgiving as the RC213V is now?? No, I'll agree with that. The Ducati was a bike that had to be ridden hard and the problems ridden around rather than being worked out. The Ducati didn't respond as well to set-up as the Honda, plus the Honda has never had the front end issues that Ducati has been plagued with for years.

    Marquez is a very talented rider and I agree with you. He's blessed to be on the best bike at the moment.

    I personally believe the Honda is the better bike. Can the Yamaha beat it?? Yes, I believe so. I think the main problem for the Yamaha is it's lack of power(compared to the Honda) and it's lack of not being as forgiving in mistakes as the Honda. Look how many times Marquez had mistakes, yet was able to cancel them out rather quickly in the race. He is able to recover quicker than the Yamaha's.

    I do agree though that these guys are very determined riders. Lorenzo's performance last year at Assen is a testament to that. However, like any highly paid athlete, I would expect that no only his competitive nature spurred him on, but the fact that he's getting a big paycheck from Yamaha and didn't want to come across as letting them down. In my opinion I wouldn't have thought twice about sitting a race out because of a broken collar bone. But for him, the championship was at stake and he was pushing to retain his title. I think for racers(or athletes of all facets of sports) their incentive to compete while injured his greater than would be a regular person.

    I will say this, if someone offered me millions upon millions of dollars to ride and race motorcycles I can say that I'd be more than willing to push the limits at all times because of the paycheck. Even while injured because the end would justify the means because of the paycheck.
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  22. #46
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    I think we might be saying the same things if he were on a Ducati. Look to 2007 when Casey Stoner was on the Ducati. Ducati nailed the newly redesigned 2007 800cc spec bike and clearly had an advantage on the rest of the bikes on the grid. I'm not taking anything away from Stoner's achievements but it was very clear to see his bike in 2007 was the dominant bike on the grid in terms of power. Was it as forgiving as the RC213V is now?? No, I'll agree with that. The Ducati was a bike that had to be ridden hard and the problems ridden around rather than being worked out. The Ducati didn't respond as well to set-up as the Honda, plus the Honda has never had the front end issues that Ducati has been plagued with for years.

    Marquez is a very talented rider and I agree with you. He's blessed to be on the best bike at the moment.

    I personally believe the Honda is the better bike. Can the Yamaha beat it?? Yes, I believe so. I think the main problem for the Yamaha is it's lack of power(compared to the Honda) and it's lack of not being as forgiving in mistakes as the Honda. Look how many times Marquez had mistakes, yet was able to cancel them out rather quickly in the race. He is able to recover quicker than the Yamaha's.

    I do agree though that these guys are very determined riders. Lorenzo's performance last year at Assen is a testament to that. However, like any highly paid athlete, I would expect that no only his competitive nature spurred him on, but the fact that he's getting a big paycheck from Yamaha and didn't want to come across as letting them down. In my opinion I wouldn't have thought twice about sitting a race out because of a broken collar bone. But for him, the championship was at stake and he was pushing to retain his title. I think for racers(or athletes of all facets of sports) their incentive to compete while injured his greater than would be a regular person.

    I will say this, if someone offered me millions upon millions of dollars to ride and race motorcycles I can say that I'd be more than willing to push the limits at all times because of the paycheck. Even while injured because the end would justify the means because of the paycheck.
    With regards to the Ducati, Marc Marquez can certainly ride the pants off of a motorcycle, and with the concessions Ducati has received this year and having Gigi Dall'igna helming the team, Marc could possibly make the bike competitive. I think we both agree that, when it comes to Ducati (in its current iteration), sometimes even the best talent isn't enough to make the bike a winner, unless the bike suits that rider's style. So, sure, if the Ducati and Marquez worked well together, anything's possible, but I don't think we'll be finding that out any time soon.

    I thought I remembered hearing one of the announcers mention that the M1 was getting a boost to their power last week. All I could find is this article, but they won't see that bike until 2015. http://www.yamahamotogp.com/news/16-...t-in-catalunya Hopefully that helps next year.

    I want to keep seeing some real racing like the previous 2 races, and if Rossi, Lorenzo, and Pedrosa are getting stronger, the rest of this season won't disappoint! Truly, we are watching history in the making with Marquez of the likes we haven't had in quite some time. But I like watching races for the seat of the pants action. Give me more of that!
    Last edited by Drano; Sun Jun 22nd, 2014 at 04:23 AM.

  23. #47
    Senior Member FZRguy's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Been watchin' this about Stoner's career tonite at work.

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  24. #48
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: MotoGP Catalunya (SPOILER)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    With regards to the Ducati, Marc Marquez can certainly ride the pants off of a motorcycle, and with the concessions Ducati has received this year and having Gigi Dall'igna helming the team, Marc could possibly make the bike competitive. I think we both agree that, when it comes to Ducati (in its current iteration), sometimes even the best talent isn't enough to make the bike a winner, unless the bike suits that rider's style. So, sure, if the Ducati and Marquez worked well together, anything's possible, but I don't think we'll be finding that out any time soon.

    I thought I remembered hearing one of the announcers mention that the M1 was getting a boost to their power last week. All I could find is this article, but they won't see that bike until 2015. http://www.yamahamotogp.com/news/16-...t-in-catalunya Hopefully that helps next year.

    I want to keep seeing some real racing like the previous 2 races, and if Rossi, Lorenzo, and Pedrosa are getting stronger, the rest of this season won't disappoint! Truly, we are watching history in the making with Marquez of the likes we haven't had in quite some time. But I like watching races for the seat of the pants action. Give me more of that!
    Oh I agree the more intense the battles the better it makes for a historic race. I think the other three are catching up. Of the three that I think are the most hungry to beat Marquez I'd have to say it's Rossi with Pedrosa coming in a close second. Aside from Mugello and Catalunya, Rossi had been the only rider to battle with Marquez albeit he's lost every battle this year. I think Rossi is/was the most ready to take the fight to Marquez this year. Just lacks a little bit in the bike department to make it completely happen. I think we are going to see some fireworks in Assen this coming weekend. It's a small track that favors agility over brute power. One the reasons I was sad to see Laguna Seca go away. It along with Sachsenring are all three tracks that favor agility and setup over brute power. Though I will say the Yamaha's aren't that far down on power compared to the Honda. I was rather shocked with Rossi's straight line speed at Montmelo. Marquez wasn't able to reel him as quickly. I think much of that boils down to ECU programming. With the 20L of fuel restriction, we see early in the race the bikes are evenly matched in terms of power. It's only until they burn off the fuel then the ECU takes over to manage the fuel consumption to the end of the race. This area of the race I also believe is where the Honda has the advantage. Late in the race they manage fuel better than the Yamaha. Hence it appears they have the power advantage later on.

    Also from what I've gathered and read. Engines are frozen this year in terms of development and upgrades. The five engines they have are sealed and those five are the only five they get for the year. So how they were developed during Winter testing and design is how they would stay for the rest of the season. Obviously Honda gambled on having the most powerful engine(which they do) also I think they put in a little more time and effort into fuel management. This is something that Yamaha could have put a stop to last year when they agreed with Honda to do a engine development freeze. In my opinion Yamaha are kicking themselves now for agreeing to such an engine freeze.

    Granted they had the option of going "Open Class" but that's not what they are about. I do think Yamaha will have more grunt come next year though. With them testing the 2015 bike already it shows that they are determined to not get left behind in terms of power come next year.

    One thing I would like to point out is that when Rossi joined Yamaha in 2004 he chose the engine that was less powerful than the others Yamaha had developed. Obviously in 2004 they had way different and better regulations on engine development but to begin with Rossi chose a bike with a less powerful engine but with the chassis that he felt gave him the best package. I think we are seeing Yamaha going back to that mindset again now that Rossi is back on the team. They have made great progress with developing the braking(which for a long time has always been Yamaha's strong point), they've also made the bike a little more agile and able to give more front end feedback to the rider.

    I think with Rossi gone for two years, they developed a bike that suited Lorenzo's style of high corner speed. The problem with that is now the bike only suited one style of riding(Lorenzo's). Spies never really could make the package work as well for him. Crutchlow said he couldn't get his Tech 3 M1 to respond in the same manner either. Crutchlow tried his hardest to ride the way Lorenzo rides, and he did well in some races but would crash in my others.

    One thing I thought was interesting in Lorenzo's last post race interview was that he said he wasn't able to ride the way he does when he's alone(in reference to when Rossi passed him for the lead). I think this is Lorenzo's biggest weakness and strength. If he can get out in front, he's able to do those metronome type laps and just keep that pace lap after lap. The problem with that style is he's never been the greatest dog fighter. Yes he can do fight but he becomes very unstable when riding to dog fight. He's not comfortable and you can see it in his riding and also in post race interviews. He's more than content to get out front and just lap by himself. In my opinion, that's not racing that's just running a time attack. Stoner had a similar mindset of getting out front, doing a series of quick laps, building a distance between him and second place and then just rolling it back and managing the race. I will say Stoner never had a problem with dog fighting though. Yet he was more comfortable doing the metronome thing as well. I think just about any racer would be more comfortable being left alone during the race and just managing it. It's easier and a lot less stressful than having someone breathing down your neck the whole race.

    I'm with you though, I want to see more intense racing and I hope we get it the rest of the season. The championship might be wrapped up now for Marquez. I think though we'll see some different winners this year. I'm hoping Rossi can take one or two races, same with Pedrosa and Lorenzo. It would make it more exciting and while I agree Marquez is history in the making(especially if he wins all the races this year) it is a bit boring knowing seeing him win them all. Was hoping he'd lose Le Mans, Mugello and Catalunya, because in those races I felt others deserved to win them(Rossi = Le Mans, Lorenzo = Mugello, Catalunya = Rossi or Pedrosa).

    Honestly though, this has been a great season for MotoGP racing. Far more exciting than the last few seasons. Even with Rossi's win last year, I'd say he's far more exciting this year and far more competitive this year than last year.
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    By UglyDogRacing in forum The Pros
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Sat Aug 30th, 2008, 03:31 PM

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