Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 49 to 72 of 114

Thread: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

  1. #49
    Senior Member FZRguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    4,476

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    PICKERINGTON, Ohio -- A single complaint from a Sacramento man has forced the California Highway Patrol and other state government agencies to remove information from their websites that was intended to help motorcyclists safely execute the allowed lane-splitting maneuver.

    Kenneth Mandler, a longtime state employee who now conducts training sessions on how to get a state job, petitioned the California Office of Administrative Law in 2013, claiming the CHP created an "underground regulation" by formulating and distributing guidelines for safe lane splitting.

    Lane splitting, also called lane filtering, is the practice of riding a motorcycle or scooter between lanes of stopped or slowly moving traffic. The practice has been permitted in California for decades and no statute prohibits it. No other state allows the maneuver.

    The CHP posted its guidelines with the intention of helping motorcyclists and motorists understand safe practices and to discourage unsafe lane splitting.

    "Some have interpreted the recently published Motorcycle Lane Splitting Guidelines as rules, laws or regulations that could or would be enforced by the department," according to a CHP statement. "The guidelines were never intended for this purpose and were prepared simply as common sense traffic safety tips and to raise public awareness."

    The Office of Administrative Law sided with Mandler, noting that CHP Commissioner J. A. Farrow certified that his department would not "issue, use, enforce, or attempt to enforce the public education information." The OAL determined that posting the guidelines on the website was "issuing" them.

    "By forcing the California Highway Patrol to remove its guidelines, Mr. Mandler and the Office of Administrative Law are denying the public vital safety information," said Nick Haris, AMA western states representative and a member of the California Motorcyclist Safety Program Advisory Committee, which helped write the guidelines.

    "Lane splitting is still allowed, and motorcyclists are still using this long-recognized riding technique to relieve traffic congestion and improve safety," Haris said. "But now, neither riders nor motorists have a place to turn for authoritative guidelines on the practice."

    The AMA supports the continued use of safe lane splitting in California and the implementation of lane-splitting laws in other states, coupled with extensive rider and driver education programs.

    The AMA position statement reads, in part: "Reducing a motorcyclist's exposure to vehicles that are frequently accelerating and decelerating on congested roadways can be one way to reduce front- and rear-end collisions for those most vulnerable in traffic."

    Denny Kobza, of the Bay Area Riders' Forum and a member of the California Motorcyclist Safety Program Advisory Committee, said he was extremely disappointed that the CHP was forced to take down the guidelines.

    "It is very disturbing that one person can affect three years of hard work," Kobza said. "We put a lot of hard work into those guidelines, because lane splitting is a safer way to go than waiting for a motorist to make a mistake."

    Kobza said he has full faith in the California Highway Patrol's continued advocacy for motorcycle safety, and he hopes the guidelines can be reposted to state government websites soon.

    The complete AMA lane splitting position statement is available here: http://americanmotorcyclist.com/Rights/PositionStatements/LaneSplitting.aspx.

    The deleted CHP guidelines can still be downloaded here: http://americanmotorcyclist.com/Libr...?download=true.
    John
    KTM Duke 690

  2. #50
    Senior Member UHATEIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Hampden/Tower
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Whether its legal or not I just cruised the shoulder for around 10 miles on the 70 on Saturday coming back from Squaw Pass/Idaho Springs. It was backed up all the way from the top of Floyd hill down to the 470. Reason why... a giat group of Ruff Ryders was pulled over by the cops. There were 4 cop cars there including 2 parked the opposite direction on the damn 70. The Freeway was down from 4 lanes to 2. I dont know if there was an accident or not or if the cops were just pulling over a whole group of bikers to give them a hard time. But I couldnt stand waiting in the line as it was raining too so cruising the shoulder at 20-25 got me through it it maybe 5 minutes or so.
    2005 Suzuki SV650s Blue (SOLD), 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 636 Lime Green


  3. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lakewood
    Posts
    97

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by UHATEIT View Post
    the 70
    Someone's from CA.
    The Toys:
    05 Suzuki SV1000S
    07 KTM 450EXC
    00 Toyota MR2
    76 Toyota Landcruiser Rockcrawler
    13 Yeti SB66c
    Too many skis to list

  4. #52
    Senior Member UHATEIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Hampden/Tower
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by teamextreme View Post
    Someone's from CA.
    hahahahaha I get that all the time. Yes I'm from CA. Born and raise for 26 years, moved here 4 years ago. I get shit from my local coworkers when I say the 70, the 25, the 225, the 270.
    2005 Suzuki SV650s Blue (SOLD), 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 636 Lime Green


  5. #53
    Senior Member Moderator Slo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Denver 80239
    Posts
    4,397

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by UHATEIT View Post
    hahahahaha I get that all the time. Yes I'm from CA. Born and raise for 26 years, moved here 4 years ago. I get shit from my local coworkers when I say the 70, the 25, the 225, the 270.
    How long did it take you to stop calling them freeways and change to highways? Took me a while haha.

  6. #54
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    596

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    I got a 4 point ticket in June 2012 for "passing on the right" on Foothills in Boulder on my gixxer. To those familiar with foothills parkway in Boulder, I had just made a left turn from Colorado Ave onto Foothills around 8:45am and the traffic was backed up with no cars moving. Right turn on Arapahoe was going to be my next turn, so I got on the should and rode at about 10 mph. There happen to be a Boulder PD officer on duty stuck in traffic as well and he certainly didn't fancy what I was doing...so he pulled me over.... and the result was a 4 point ticket for passing on the right. ..... so depending on who pulls you over, a citation could be issued.

    I think all of foothills parkway is a state highway....don't remember...could be wrong....
    __________________
    W L F

  7. #55
    Senior Member UHATEIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Hampden/Tower
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Slo View Post
    How long did it take you to stop calling them freeways and change to highways? Took me a while haha.
    I still call then freeways!
    2005 Suzuki SV650s Blue (SOLD), 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 636 Lime Green


  8. #56
    Member 07D675CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Centennial
    Posts
    128

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by big_sur View Post
    It IS safer though. It's like airplanes. Yes, emotional monkey brain sees a million pounds of metal hurling through the air at 475 mph and says, "bad, not safe, will fall and die", but in actuality, it's much safer than driving a car. Similarly, monkey brain sees motorcycle lane splitting, "objects too close together, will crash and die," but really the reduction in fatalities from getting crunched between two cars in a rear end collisions in stop and go traffic outweighs the minute amount of accidents caused by lane splitting and is actually safer overall than not splitting.

    If you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't do it, but it's silly to stop others from doing it out of irrational fear.
    Exactly.

  9. #57
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    Exactly.
    Blaahahaha.. So he makes a decent comparison of lane splitting to airplanes?

    I will take that same great example for the noobs and raise them this simple part. Airplanes are all monitored by a "traffic controller". Without someone sitting at the desk and telling these there would be crashes almost every day. At almost every airport. Making driving a car safer. There is a ton that goes into aviation. Its not like street traffic where just about anything and everything can happen.

    If you are paying proper attention to your surroundings you will NEVER get smashed in traffic by that car behind you. Just won't happen. Its called knowing how to ride and situating yourself for an escape route. Simple as that. Head should always be moving. You should always be watching 360 degrees.

    It is far easier to react to a car coming in hot behind you than car changing lanes when you're just feet away. Can't go left.. Can't go right. Can't stop in time. Done.

  10. #58
    Member 07D675CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Centennial
    Posts
    128

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    Blaahahaha.. So he makes a decent comparison of lane splitting to airplanes?

    I will take that same great example for the noobs and raise them this simple part. Airplanes are all monitored by a "traffic controller". Without someone sitting at the desk and telling these there would be crashes almost every day. At almost every airport. Making driving a car safer. There is a ton that goes into aviation. Its not like street traffic where just about anything and everything can happen.

    If you are paying proper attention to your surroundings you will NEVER get smashed in traffic by that car behind you. Just won't happen. Its called knowing how to ride and situating yourself for an escape route. Simple as that. Head should always be moving. You should always be watching 360 degrees.

    It is far easier to react to a car coming in hot behind you than car changing lanes when you're just feet away. Can't go left.. Can't go right. Can't stop in time. Done.
    I really meant his last sentence. I should have just quoted that I suppose. I lane split for years every day to and from work in CA with never an issue because I'm not an idiot. If you do it safely there really is no additional risk to that already taken on by riding a bike to begin with. For people that don't have a lot of experience doing it to say anything negative about it is BS and they just need to keep their uninformed opinions to themselves.

  11. #59
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    For people that don't have a lot of experience doing it to say anything negative about it is BS and they just need to keep their uninformed opinons to themselves.

    Care to elaborate further?

  12. #60
    Member 07D675CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Centennial
    Posts
    128

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    Care to elaborate further?
    What I am saying is if you have not done it for any period of time then you can't know what you are talking about. Would you take the word of a soldier returned from Afghanistan on how dangerous it was over there or some second hand account I gave you having never been there? Clearly the soldier would know what he is talking about while I wouldn't.
    Last edited by 07D675CO; Wed Aug 13th, 2014 at 08:10 PM.

  13. #61
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    What I am saying is if you have not done it for any period of time then you can't know what you are talking about. Would you take the world of a soldier returned from Afghanistan on how dangerous it was over there or some second hand account I gave you having never been there? Clearly the soldier would know what he is talking about while I wouldn't.
    So I'm guessing you're referring to me with those comments?

  14. #62
    Member 07D675CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Centennial
    Posts
    128

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    So I'm guessing you're referring to me with those comments?
    If you have not done it for months or years daily then I suppose what I said might include you. If someone that has done it for a long time has something bad to say about it let them speak up.

  15. #63
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Or maybe you shouldn't make assumptions. okay.. Rookie. My very first day riding was a ride around tahoe. Cali side we split. Very first time. Cars started swerving at us and running us onto the dirt.

    I have more then anough experience to make my comments. The shit creates a level of anger with drivers that is amazing. And its not the guy doing it respectfully. Its the 20 tards in front of him that pissed that one person off who decides fuck it. All to save you 15 min. Its just not worth it.


    PS don't talk to about cali traffic until you have driven a semi in Friday rush hour in LA.

  16. #64
    Member 07D675CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Centennial
    Posts
    128

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    Or maybe you shouldn't make assumptions. okay.. Rookie. My very first day riding was a ride around tahoe. Cali side we split. Very first time. Cars started swerving at us and running us onto the dirt.

    I have more then anough experience to make my comments. The shit creates a level of anger with drivers that is amazing. And its not the guy doing it respectfully. Its the 20 tards in front of him that pissed that one person off who decides fuck it. All to save you 15 min. Its just not worth it.


    PS don't talk to about cali traffic until you have driven a semi in Friday rush hour in LA.
    Clearly you need some reading comprehension lessons. I said it only applies if you haven't done it for a long period of time. If that applies it applies. I in years never had any issues with it and never saw anyone else have issues with it. My guess is you were doing it wrong. But that is just a hunch. Driving a truck has nothing to do with anything in this discussion, so cool story bro.
    Last edited by 07D675CO; Thu Aug 21st, 2014 at 08:24 AM.

  17. #65
    Senior Member usmcab35's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    West Greeley CO
    Posts
    1,333

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    Or maybe you shouldn't make assumptions. okay.. Rookie. My very first day riding was a ride around tahoe. Cali side we split. Very first time. Cars started swerving at us and running us onto the dirt.

    I have more then anough experience to make my comments. The shit creates a level of anger with drivers that is amazing. And its not the guy doing it respectfully. Its the 20 tards in front of him that pissed that one person off who decides fuck it. All to save you 15 min. Its just not worth it.


    PS don't talk to about cali traffic until you have driven a semi in Friday rush hour in LA.

    oh I can talk I guess haha, ive driven a semi all over SoCal and used to commute on a bike when I was in the marines there. I see its goods and bads, personally I think it should only be used when traffic is at a near standstill like under 15mph, it makes it far easier as a rider to navigate the tight confines between cars. However I think its dumb to lane split at freeway speeds, for what really? most cali freeways are 4+ lanes, its to easy to just chose another lane and get by. I agree with others that while I find it nice during rush hour, Im almost positive a squid would do something dumb and get it taken away pretty quick.
    -Eugene-


    2007 black hayabusa touring beast
    2003 KTM 525sx/exc hybrid
    2002 black and blue hayabusa- (SOLD)
    2000 ZX7R STREETFIGHTER-(SOLD)



  18. #66
    Member 07D675CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Centennial
    Posts
    128

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by usmcab35 View Post
    oh I can talk I guess haha, ive driven a semi all over SoCal and used to commute on a bike when I was in the marines there. I see its goods and bads, personally I think it should only be used when traffic is at a near standstill like under 15mph, it makes it far easier as a rider to navigate the tight confines between cars. However I think its dumb to lane split at freeway speeds, for what really? most cali freeways are 4+ lanes, its to easy to just chose another lane and get by. I agree with others that while I find it nice during rush hour, Im almost positive a squid would do something dumb and get it taken away pretty quick.
    Squids do stupid things on bikes already, they haven't been taken away. If squids can ride around without a helmet I don't see how riding in between vehicles not moving is nearly as dangerous as that. I would trade the stupid no helmet law for one making lane splitting legal in a split second.

    I never really did it if traffic was moving, but at rush hour on Business 80 traffic doesn't move. Super easy to do 15mph through all the cars that are parked on the freeway.

  19. #67
    Board Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    I got a 4 point ticket in June 2012 for "passing on the right" on Foothills in Boulder on my gixxer. To those familiar with foothills parkway in Boulder, I had just made a left turn from Colorado Ave onto Foothills around 8:45am and the traffic was backed up with no cars moving. Right turn on Arapahoe was going to be my next turn, so I got on the should and rode at about 10 mph. There happen to be a Boulder PD officer on duty stuck in traffic as well and he certainly didn't fancy what I was doing...so he pulled me over.... and the result was a 4 point ticket for passing on the right. ..... so depending on who pulls you over, a citation could be issued.

    I think all of foothills parkway is a state highway....don't remember...could be wrong....
    got the exact same ticket back when i lived in boulder, actually it was when i was moving out, last trip, truck packed leaving town. awesome going away present.

  20. #68
    Senior Member UHATEIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Hampden/Tower
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    Squids do stupid things on bikes already, they haven't been taken away. If squids can ride around without a helmet I don't see how riding in between vehicles not moving is nearly as dangerous as that. I would trade the stupid no helmet law for one making lane splitting legal in a split second.

    I never really did it if traffic was moving, but at rush hour on Business 80 traffic doesn't move. Super easy to do 15mph through all the cars that are parked on the freeway.
    Agree with your last comment. I would rather have CO be a helmet law state and a lane splitting allowed state. I would never ride without a helmet so I could care less about having the freedom in CO to go helmetless, but would love the option to do shoulder riding or lane splitting. I have already partaken in riding the shoulder on 70 and 225 and came close this last weekend to doing it on the 25. I don't see that as a problem riding the shoulder since the damn shoulders here in CO are so wide. In CA there is almost nonexistent shoulders because most freeways have had to be streteched so wide to incorporate as many lanes as possible in congested areas. I don't know if I would feel comfortable even lane splitting at all, but shoulder riding I could do for sure.
    Last edited by UHATEIT; Thu Aug 21st, 2014 at 04:21 PM.
    2005 Suzuki SV650s Blue (SOLD), 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 636 Lime Green


  21. #69
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    Clearly you need some reading comprehension lessons. I said it only applies if you haven't done it for a long period of time. If that applies it applies. I in years never had any issues with it and never saw anyone else have issues with it. My guess is you were doing it wrong. But that is just a hunch. Driving a truck has nothing to do with anything in this discussion, so cool story bro.
    No clearly you were implying I didn't have the experience. You were just the passive aggressive way of doing. I was picking up what you were trying to put down but I'm on to people like you. You want to say something but you try to word it just right so when you get called out on it you can be like you need to go reread because I never said that.


    Fuck that pussy bullshit. Say what you want and put your foot in your mouth. Its okay it happens all the time to everyone. At least you won't be looked at as a coward for getting caught kind of saying something and hiding behind the "you're dumb" argument.

    Be a man dude.

  22. #70
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Wait did you just day in rush hour traffic doesn't move on 80? Blaaahahahaha. LIE!!!!

  23. #71
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    nv
    Posts
    8,381

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    Quote Originally Posted by usmcab35 View Post
    oh I can talk I guess haha, ive driven a semi all over SoCal and used to commute on a bike when I was in the marines there. I see its goods and bads, personally I think it should only be used when traffic is at a near standstill like under 15mph, it makes it far easier as a rider to navigate the tight confines between cars. However I think its dumb to lane split at freeway speeds, for what really? most cali freeways are 4+ lanes, its to easy to just chose another lane and get by. I agree with others that while I find it nice during rush hour, Im almost positive a squid would do something dumb and get it taken away pretty quick.
    I was more being a smartass with someone who thinks they are the only person who has experience with Cali roads. Lol

  24. #72
    Senior Member UHATEIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Hampden/Tower
    Posts
    1,278

    Re: HWY Shoulder Legal Question

    I'm not trying to be rude Townie but you are getting very worked up and reading too far into what he said. I don't see him being rude or calling you out on anything. I am from California as well and dont take any offense to anything even if it is directed to say no one else in the thread has California driving experience but I didn't read it as that's what he was doing. Maybe I'm not reading enough into it to try and find something negative in what he says.
    2005 Suzuki SV650s Blue (SOLD), 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 636 Lime Green


Similar Threads

  1. Non Vehicle related legal question
    By JonnyD in forum Legal/Legislative
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: Sat Apr 28th, 2012, 04:16 PM
  2. shoulder pain
    By duelist13 in forum Technique
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Mon May 9th, 2011, 12:44 PM
  3. legal type question.....
    By PhL0aTeR in forum Non-Bike Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Tue Sep 30th, 2008, 05:36 PM
  4. Legal representation question
    By pilot in forum Shop Experiences
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Thu Jul 5th, 2007, 09:45 PM
  5. Look over your shoulder
    By Brizz in forum Pics and Videos
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Sat Oct 8th, 2005, 10:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •