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Thread: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

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    Member big_sur's Avatar
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    Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Apparently there was an incident with a State Trooper wrecking a sport bike on Bear Creek Canyon Sunday. Guy is looking to hook up to assist in prosecution of the trooper. If you were involved\witnessed, check out ADV-

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013425

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    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Jesus. That sounds more like Virginia than Colorado
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    Senior Member Nolan's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Seems odd. There was apple cider fest in Morrison this weekend and traffic was absolutely miserable by all accounts because of the leaf peepers as well.
    I had a nice chat with a Morrison Officer as well. Their unofficial ticket range is +15 mph.
    Now don't get me wrong if this did happen the trooper should get his ass in a sling. Just doesn't seem like the people I've dealt with in that area....

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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Nobody was able to get this on gopro or any other recording device?
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    Senior Member j0ker's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    They said it was a noob officer who looked like he knew if just F'ed up. Unsurprised actually. FTP.

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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Officers have not been doing themselves any favors all over the country lately.
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    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    That post sounds all kinds of fishy. And it doesn't help that his grammar and sentence structure show the educational equivalent of a 4th grader.

    Just so you're all aware, just about every CSP car has HD dash cameras now, so there is likely little doubt of what happened. And I agree with CSP, witness statements aren't needed if the incident is clearly, and completely, captured on video. I'll tell it straight up, witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but there have been thousands of studies showing how bad witnesses usually are, and how easily what they saw can be swayed. I can make anyone here guilty of robbery, and have a witness point you out and tell me they are 100% certain it was you. Now we do everything we can to minimize this pressure but fact is witnesses are not reliable.

    I got into an accident about 2 years ago. In a subsequent hearing, I read the sworn written testimony of a decent witness. She saw what happened, had an un-obstructed view, had no reason to lie, and by all accounts was absolutely believable. She swore my lights and siren were never on. Pretty obvious thing to miss you'd think, right? Video shows my LED bar on full code, with my phaser siren going.
    Last edited by Aaron; Tue Sep 30th, 2014 at 06:14 PM.

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    Member Nguyen's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    I was actually there on bear creek going to Morrison from Evergreen at around 4pm and saw three patrol cars whiz by on the opposite lane. I might have missed this incident by a hair.

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    Senior Member Lomax's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    I know there are always two sides to every story and would really like to know the truth on this one.

    You have a witness that was right there when it happened and then you have the camera footage so who knows.

    I hope the rider is OK and that karma is dished out in whatever amounts are appropriate.

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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Sometimes they hit the nail right on the head.


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    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Good luck! A officer down in Deckers years ago swerved in front of me making me screech to a halt to not his his car (I admit I was speeding); he swerved to block the lane I was in. If I didn't smoke my tires I would have nailed the side of his car. Gets out of his car running saying I ran from him the week before; totally untrue and at time I had a black/silver Honda F4I (#1 selling bike and color scheme that year). To make a long story short he tried to arrest me, all while giving me lectures how they are tired of sportbikes coming on that road. Got a mandatory court appearance for the speeding and of course explained to the judge how I felt his actions were dangerous and if I had not stopped in time I'd probably be in the hospital. Judge in Cripple Creek didn't even listen to me and totally blew it off as they were more concerened with saying I ran from this cop the week prior....of course no evidence (it really was not me). In end me bringing this up worked against me and they threw the book at me with highest fine and point allowed.

    At least this guy has witnesses as I did not. Lawyering up is smart too! This stuff needs to be a stopped because it is happening!
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    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    So do you ride with a GoPro every time you go out? I mean if this is happening, and it's happening to you, and it has to be stopped, the least you could do is spend $100 on a camera and record everything. Because right wrong or indifferent, when it's an Officer's word against yours, you're going to lose every time.

    I ride, and drive, with a GoPro every time I go out. Everything I do is on camera. It's not because of the bad cops why I record everything, it's mostly for proving fault if an accident happens, but there are bad cops out there, I'm not ignorant of that. Although I've never experienced it, and I doubt I will, it does happen.

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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    I know the witness, and true - he is not an eloquent writer, but he believes what he saw. He and another witness tried to report the incident to the State Patrol, but they refused to take the complaint. I heard the Voicemail left by state patrol stating that they watched the dash cam, and it appeared that the rider was evading, and was attempting to flee and that the RIDER hit the patrol car. Internal affairs has since agreed to take the case (I saw the email personally) and investigate fully.

    The original point of the post was an attempt to find the sport bike rider who was hit as well as the other witness, named "Drew."

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    Senior Member Lomax's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    when it's an Officer's word against yours, you're going to lose every time.
    This is so true Aaron,

    I have only had two tickets in my life. The first one was back when I was 16 and worked at Lakeside Amusement park at night. On the way home, getting off I70 at Kipling. I waited for a long time at the light before it turned green. I then proceeded through the intersection only to be pulled over and ticketed for running a Red light. The officer actually said it was his work against mine as I was "a punk ass Kid" driving a dune buggy. This one went to court and of course I lost.

    Several years ago riding up behind Standley lake showing 42 on the speedo and the GPS, I was pulled over for speeding and written up for 57 in a 40. Again the officer said "it is your word against mine and you will loose" This one I just paid as per prior experience he was right.

    So this has been my life long experience with the police and from what I make my opinion from. It is very sad but the only thing I have to go off of.

    Marc
    Last edited by Lomax; Wed Oct 1st, 2014 at 09:18 PM.
    84 R100RS LE, 14 Ducati MTSGT, 18 Desert Sled, 73 850 Commando, 78 CT90, 14 Ural, 74 Eldorado police, 64 R50/2, 01 DRZ400E, 94 900SS/CR, 77 HD XLCR, 2011 T100, 63 MG Falcone', 75 Ducati 860GT, 2015 Royal Enfield Classic Chrome, 2009 XR1200, 1944 Nimbus, 1989 GB500 https://lomaxcm.smugmug.com/

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    Member BlueDog's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    This BS was shown a few weekends ago when two of our group got ticketed in RMNP for 10 over even though they were easily doing 5 under at the time. All because some lady came in to the park while we were paying our entry and yelled at one of the rangers that we were being hooligans She called ahead, some ranger with a hardon for bikers came tearing down, pulled them over without ever catching them on radar, and gave them a ticket because officers know that "when it's an Officer's word against yours, you're going to lose every time." and they are above the law.

    As long as other officers accept this as fact and just they way it is, this kind of crap isn't going to change.

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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    About 8 years ago a group of riders and myself were up by Bailey and we all passed this lady on a double yellow and we all know how loud our bikes can be when passing illegally on double yellows in the mountains. Well she called CSC and when we got to loaf and jug in conifer to gas up, two CSC troopers walked up to us and said "well, just the guys we were looking for". They explained to us why they questioned us and of course we all denied it. We all were given illegal passing tix. Well, I just paid the fine and took the points. The rest of the group went to court and WON. Walked out with nothing. Judge said it was all hear say. Which wasn't enough evidence. I understand times have changed and the counties are BROKE and need the revenue. This is one more reason why I'm turning my ZX6R into a track bike, getting licensed next April and gonna stay off the canyons. We all know we take risks riding in the canyons and yes, it's a blast, but so much can go wrong. To me it's just not worth it.

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    Member milehizx6r's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Sorry, I meant CSP.

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    Senior Member Clovis's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Sounds like our CSP experience on this year's firecracker. Trooper 'clocked' two guys speeding (15 over) on Monarch, blows past the group of 6 and pulls over a mile ahead. 5 of us pull over, the 6th was smart and lagged behind and then got to ride away... LOL. But because we were "a pack" and "hugging the corners" in "the rain", we all received a careless driving ticket and just to be a complete dick, he gave us all a mandatory court appearance during the week, in Salida... 100-150 miles away. 6 hours there and back, during the work week.



    See? It's raining... trooper mistakes cloudy for rain.

    In the end, ending up being 2 points and a $98 check and that was after I brought video and picture evidence to the contrary. Better than 3 points and $300 I suppose.

    Hell, last labor day weekend I got a ticket for 72 in a 50 on highway 24 heading out to Buena Vista at 8am from CSP. The trooper nearly took me out coming over the double yellow from a corner. Interesting, he gave me a ticket for crossing the double yellow. Claimed he saw me do it up ahead. With no other cars around (ie to pass, why would I cross a double yellow).

    I told the cop BS, I was not going 72 and asked to see his radar lock. He refused. Just take his word for it.

    6 point speed, 4 point double yellow... fought it. I took my GPS print out showing that my maximum speed was no more than 67mph (and the speed limit had just dropped from 60 to 50). The judge, while friendly and professional told me that the court does not know enough about GPS and to use it, I would basically have to scientifically prove the accuracy of GPS! Really? Good enough to guide a missile but not good enough to register speed?

    Knocked down to 6 points and $300 or $400 in fines. The money is what they really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDog View Post
    This BS was shown a few weekends ago when two of our group got ticketed in RMNP for 10 over even though they were easily doing 5 under at the time. All because some lady came in to the park while we were paying our entry and yelled at one of the rangers that we were being hooligans She called ahead, some ranger with a hardon for bikers came tearing down, pulled them over without ever catching them on radar, and gave them a ticket because officers know that "when it's an Officer's word against yours, you're going to lose every time." and they are above the law.

    As long as other officers accept this as fact and just they way it is, this kind of crap isn't going to change.
    "If not us, who? If not now, when?"




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    Senior Member Ezzzzy1's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    I got pinched on Labor day tearing up E470. 91 in a 75.... I dont know. I dont think 91 is all that fast but he wasnt too happy about it.

    One of my friends thats a cop said that all staties are being forced to right tickets. So, if you get pulled over you will not be getting any favors.

    If I was a cop I would leave the bikes alone and go after the cars. Guess thats just me.

    What sucked was that 2 years ago I got pulled over by CSP because the cop said he couldnt see my license plate from 50 feet away. A total bullshit reason. It turned out that in transferring my license back to Colorado from Hawaii that my endorsement did follow in the system. So the prick gave me a ticket for not having the endorsement.... EVEN THOUGH I HAD MY OLD LICENSE WITH THE "M" ON IT!!!!

    Fuckers. All of them.
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    Senior Member WolFeYeZ's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Did cops start working on commission or something? All of these stories are nuts.
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    Senior Member Aaron's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    All these stories are nuts, but you're only hearing one side of the story.

    I'd just like to know where the videos are? If you didn't do anything wrong, surely a used GoPro is cheaper than paying tickets right? Problem is everyone here knows they were guilty, they're just irritated they got caught and had to pay the fun tax. So they're ranting just to rant. Not for any god reason, not to find a solution, just to complain because they got caught. Want to solve all of these problems? Buy a cheap used GoPro, and follow the law. Or take it to the track. I scraped my knee pucks almost away to nothing, and pushed 160-165mph on the straights and haven't been hassled yet. Oh, and I did wheelies. Still no tickets for hopping the front wheel on every straight HPR has.

    Interesting story. Last time on my way to HPR my pickup got a flat tire. CSP trooper stopped, helped me change it, and told me how he appreciates me going to the track to "scratch the itch."

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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Can you even use video evidence for a traffic ticket? I was told I couldn't by the DA when my son got a speeding ticket in a place were the speed limit sign was knocked down. Granted it wasn't video of the actual offense, and he was technically guilty, I suppose, but I shot video showing there was no speed limit sign changing the speed and showed the sign knocked down in the ditch. DA didn't even want to see it, said it's irrelevant.
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    All these stories are nuts, but you're only hearing one side of the story.

    I'd just like to know where the videos are? If you didn't do anything wrong, surely a used GoPro is cheaper than paying tickets right? Problem is everyone here knows they were guilty, they're just irritated they got caught and had to pay the fun tax.
    Because that's not how the law works, Aaron. The burden of proof rests on the accuser, not the accused. It's the whole purpose why reasonable doubt exists. If the accuser cannot prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the accused is guilty, the accused gets to walk. I'm not arguing that having your own proof isn't useful to establish your defense, but no person should be obligated to prove their innocence. It's innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. Making the demand that the accused prove that they are innocent defeats the principle, and shows just how pathetically skewed the system has become in favor of accepting a police officer's word over that of the defendant. The law is not inscrutable, nor are officers infallible, and not all cases of riders being pulled over is the result of them committing a crime.

    I get where you're coming from, though. Had Grim not had video proof in his case against the officer, he probably would have lost and had to pay the fine. The fact that he had to do so, when the officer had no proof, other than his unreliable, eye-witness testimony (your words), is precisely the problem, and making everybody wear video cameras to prove their innocence is not the solution. It just shows how corrupt the system has become.

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    Last edited by Drano; Thu Oct 2nd, 2014 at 09:04 PM.

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    Member BlueDog's Avatar
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    Re: Bear Creek this past Sunday - Unnecessary Force by Trooper

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    All these stories are nuts, but you're only hearing one side of the story.

    I'd just like to know where the videos are? If you didn't do anything wrong, surely a used GoPro is cheaper than paying tickets right? Problem is everyone here knows they were guilty, they're just irritated they got caught and had to pay the fun tax. So they're ranting just to rant. Not for any god reason, not to find a solution, just to complain because they got caught. Want to solve all of these problems? Buy a cheap used GoPro, and follow the law. Or take it to the track. I scraped my knee pucks almost away to nothing, and pushed 160-165mph on the straights and haven't been hassled yet. Oh, and I did wheelies. Still no tickets for hopping the front wheel on every straight HPR has.

    Interesting story. Last time on my way to HPR my pickup got a flat tire. CSP trooper stopped, helped me change it, and told me how he appreciates me going to the track to "scratch the itch."
    Interesting story, you shouldn't have to keep a camera rolling every time you ride to protect yourself from crooked cops. Cops like you that know this shit happens and choose to ignore it are just as bad as the ones doing it.

    Yes, some of the people in here were guilty and admitted it, but there are plenty of legitimate instances where cops abuse their power just because they know they can do so with impunity. An officer's job description is "To Protect and Serve", not "Detain, Hassle, and Fabricate".

    I'm not saying there aren't good cops, or even that the majority aren't good, but to tell people on here they just have to deal with the bad ones and should get a GoPro to prove their innocence is utter bullshit.

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