S1000RR for a first time rider

[Rabbie303]

So, I wanted to know your thoughts on this matter. I have a friend that's been riding for years. Started off on an R1 (I know, I know just keep the comments to yourself since he's wrecked it several times lol), and he just got the new Panigale 1198. He is a pretty good rider for all things considered. We have another friend that's been wanting to ride and my Ducati friend has talked him into getting a new BMW S1000RR as a first time bike.

I have pleaded with him and he says it's safer than a 600 with all the electronics. I told him it's about the rider, and he needs to learn to ride a bike, not rely on electronics. Let alone the S1000RR is up there with some of the fastest bikes.

Anybody have anything else I could tell him to sway him into a smaller bike? I don't really want to go to another friends funeral.

Looking to see what Aaron has to say since he has this bike.

[Wrider]

Show him all of the accidents your buddy has had on the R1. Electronics won't save you every time, and IIRC one of our members totaled an S1000RR already simply because of dirt on the road.

[Rabbie303]

Very good points!! Thank you. R1 buddy is still maintaining that it's safer lol.

[big_sur]

Actually CA Superbike School crashes went down by over half when they switched from 600s to S1k simply due to electronics and ABS. That said, ZX-6 has TC and ABS now...probably a better option.

[Rabbie303]

Big_sure, are these crashed from new riders as well, or experienced? I totally understand that ABS and TC are a MASSIVE help to bikes now, but it just seems that type of power for a brand new rider? I know a buddy here at work just for the Honda CB500F with ABS and he is a new rider. I'm not even concerned with him since it's a small bike.

[big_sur]

Big_sure, are these crashed from new riders as well, or experienced? I totally understand that ABS and TC are a MASSIVE help to bikes now, but it just seems that type of power for a brand new rider? I know a buddy here at work just for the Honda CB500F with ABS and he is a new rider. I'm not even concerned with him since it's a small bike.

I think they're newish, at least to the track, and I think they turn them down to rain mode for most people but don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. I think it's a dumb first bike. I was just saying TC and ABS are extremely helpful for most people.

[JKOL]

If someone is considering a 190+hp bike as a starter bike because it has electronic aids, they likely don't have strong enough decision making skills to keep their right wrist under control.

I started on a 600. At 6-2 and 215lbs, I scared myself plenty of times with 105hp. Add another 90hp and those scary situations might easily have become the death of me. I remember coming in hot to a corner on my 600rr on P2P, luckily I was able to brake hard enough and then leaned/prayed to make it through the turn. If I had another 90hp I would easily have had enough power that I would have ended up planted into the side of the mountain instead of just having a scary reminder that my bike has a lot more potential than my own skills could handle. That kind of power quickly gets you up to "kill yourself speeds" that TC and ABS can't save you from.

[birchyboy]

Do your best to dissuade them but it's their decision in the end. If they want to go all out and get the BMW, wish them well. Regardless, there's risk involved and they'll learn one way or another.

[tecknojoe]

Tell him he's a moron and to stop making my insurance rates go up

a 600 is more than enough to thoroughly kill yourself

[mdub]

Haha.. Noobs. It's his life..

[blaircsf]

I've seen this credited to someone, but i don't remember where or to who.

Edit, best idea for a source looks like: This has been "Sportbikes are not Beginner Bikes" by Matt Pickering of the now defunct BeginnerBikes.com, chopped and screwed by Anonymous people here and there on the internet

Edit x2: Sticky thread here also:

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forum...nt-a-sportbike

[Bueller]

It is the rider not the bike. You can easily get over your head on a 600. That bike is very expensive to fix. A used pos is not. He will wreck, just a matter of time.

[GMR]

I think he should hold off until the Kawasaki H2r comes out :-)

[Rabbie303]

Not a smart move financially or health wise. If you can't ride without the aids, then you can't really ride.

That's EXACTLY what I said. What happens if all those aids fail? Then he wouldn't know what to do.

I think he should hold off until the Kawasaki H2r comes out :-)

^^^^ lol! Another buddy said that as well jokingly.


So I actually went and copied all your replies (text only, no names) and sent them to him. He said he's really been thinking that it's too much bike for him. It would appear my R1 friend was trying to convince him into the BMW. I told him I would help in any way to find a better first time bike.

Told him that the reasoning with the electronics helping him out would be the same as handing the keys to a ferrari to a 16 year old and saying it was safe because of advanced electronics and settings. He laughed but said he got the point. I think he is going the more responsible way, so thank you for your input and help.

[07D675CO]

That's EXACTLY what I said. What happens if all those aids fail? Then he wouldn't know what to do.



^^^^ lol! Another buddy said that as well jokingly.


So I actually went and copied all your replies (text only, no names) and sent them to him. He said he's really been thinking that it's too much bike for him. It would appear my R1 friend was trying to convince him into the BMW. I told him I would help in any way to find a better first time bike.

Told him that the reasoning with the electronics helping him out would be the same as handing the keys to a ferrari to a 16 year old and saying it was safe because of advanced electronics and settings. He laughed but said he got the point. I think he is going the more responsible way, so thank you for your input and help.

Good for him. Plenty of dirt cheap SV650 out there to learn on and keep or sell and upgrade later.

[07D675CO]

Not a smart move financially or health wise. If you can't ride without the aids, then you can't really ride.

[Grant H.]

Hijack: I have an 06 SV650 with 215 original miles that I would be willing to discuss selling.

That aside, the ability to survive learning to ride has a lot more to do with the person than the bike.

[~Barn~]

<Snip...> [T]he ability to survive learning to ride has a lot more to do with the person than the bike.

Very very well said.

[Clovis]

If I had to learn how to ride again, it would be on a cheap Yamaha FZ6.

I loved that bike and had 5 fun filled years with it!

Glad to hear your friend is wising up, good analogy with the Ferrari and 16 year old!

[Aaron]

I'm with Bueller here, it's all about the rider. Personally I have a lot of respect for my bike, and I did my SV1000S too (120hp first street bike). I can honestly say I've never put either bike in a seriously scary situation, because I've always left room for error. Maybe I'm just a smart sportbike rider, maybe I'm lucky, or maybe the man upstairs has other things planned for me still, who knows.

Personally, for ME, the BMW is a better starting bike than my SV1000S was. The S1000RR is not only better and sharper in every way, but it's also much more forgiving, and feels much more natural to me. I never felt good on my Suzuki. I'd be riding an average pace and it felt like the bike was right at the edge. That's not good for a rider, it destroys your confidence in the bike. Whereas the BMW, the day I sat on it it felt like I'd been riding it for 10 years. At that same average pace, I can truly feel the bike not breaking a sweat, and if some ting unexpected happens the bike has so much left in every way to cope with it.

So personally, I think the S1000RR is actually an alright starting bike. He'll just need to respect the power, and truly realize in every sense how fast it accelerates, because it is deceiving.

It's not about the bike.

[teamextreme]

Personally, for ME, the BMW is a better starting bike than my SV1000S was. The S1000RR is not only better and sharper in every way, but it's also much more forgiving, and feels much more natural to me.

Dammit, now I have to sell my SV1k! Thankfully that BMW is way pricier than I'm willing to spend, so I guess I'm sticking with the SV, for now.

On topic, I agree getting any type of sport bike, liter or 600, for a first timer is insane. Mine was a first street bike, but I also have been riding dirt bikes all my life. I agree with what someone else said, riding on dirt first is an excellent way to teach bike handling, throttle control etc. It's also cheap and fairly forgiving of mistakes, which isn't the case on the street.

[Drano]

Personally, for ME, the BMW is a better starting bike than my SV1000S was. The S1000RR is not only better and sharper in every way, but it's also much more forgiving, and feels much more natural to me. I never felt good on my Suzuki. I'd be riding an average pace and it felt like the bike was right at the edge. That's not good for a rider, it destroys your confidence in the bike. Whereas the BMW, the day I sat on it it felt like I'd been riding it for 10 years. At that same average pace, I can truly feel the bike not breaking a sweat, and if some ting unexpected happens the bike has so much left in every way to cope with it.

No disrespect intended, but as far as I recall your SV was pretty much stock and I'm quite sure it was never even close to properly set up, suspension-wise. Not that the SV1k's stock suspension is anything to write home to mom about, but riding any bike that isn't properly set up is a quick way to lose confidence. Although it's too little, too late now, had you taken the time and invested some money to make sure your suspension was sprung and valved correctly, and using the right weight of fluid, you might have discovered a night-to-day difference in feel, and found a big boost in confidence for the machine that you claim felt like it was on the edge. I hate to break it to you, but that was more your fault than it was the bike's. The amount of effort, and the care you put into your bike almost always translates to a ride that you can know and trust to perform the way you want it to. I doubt you ever gave your SV a chance to show you what it could really do.

No bike comes off the showroom floor perfectly set up for the owner. You may think that your S1000RR did, but I think you'd still be pleasantly surprised by just how much improvement can be made by reading up and making adjustments, or with one quick trip to a professional suspension tuner like Dave at STM.

Back to the topic:

I do think the rider aids that exist on modern bikes can make a huge difference to safety. They can help to mitigate certain issues that, on an older bike, would have resulted in a crash. That said, riders that rely on electronics rather than on developing and using their own skills are setting themselves up for a cataclysmic failure.

I agree that it really does come down to, as Bueller has said, the nut behind the bars. Any bike can prove deadly to the rider if they don't have the sense to ride within their limits. As a noob I overcooked a couple corners on my SV and was lucky I didn't have oncoming traffic bringing me to an abrupt stop. After my near-death experience I began taking advice from anybody who was willing to offer it. I read books like "Total Control" and "A Twist of the Wrist" in order to increase my knowledge-base. I still plan on taking advanced courses, and getting proper track-day instruction once I have another bike, and the money to do so. I think a high-powered machine is just trouble waiting to happen when it's in the wrong hands. I'm glad I started on my SV650. I still miss her sometimes.

[Aaron]

As for the electronics, they're a huge advantage. But they are available on most liter bikes now, and some of the middle weights.

[Lomax]

Have him compare insurance rates on a 500cc and a liter bike and see if that helps. It of course is his decision.

If it were up to me, which it is not, I would make everyone start on a dirt or endure bike and actually learn how to ride first. That can be sold for what you paid for it and then get the bike you really want.

Hey, worked for me.

Marc