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Thread: What should be done in Ferguson

  1. #97
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    At this point I think it is a lot of people that just want to destroy stuff because they have nothing better to do. Probably no legit jobs and are mad at the world for their situation even if they do have a hand in where they are.


    Now that NY case appears to be a little different than this one based on the video evidence and coroners report. They also appear to be a little more civilized in their protesting from what I have seen.
    If you watched the video Ezzzzy1 is responding too, then it is clear these people (I am hesitant to call them people) have full responsibility for where they are in life. With the attitudes and views they express, I give zero f&^ks if they all end up in jail or dead, just like I don't care if the KKK or Westboro Baptist church all stop breathing.

    For those that didn't watch the video, let me summarize:
    all white people are racist
    black people can't be racist for hating whites because whites are the devil.
    the facts don't matter, Darren Wilson should be killed, he should be hung.

    The only difference between these f&%ktards and the KKK is the skin color.
    Last edited by JKOL; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 10:59 AM.


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  2. #98
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    If you watched the video Ezzzzy1 is responding too, then it is clear these people (I am hesitant to call them people) have full responsibility for where they are in life. With the attitudes and views they express, I give zero f&^ks if they all end up in jail or dead, just like I don't care if the KKK or Westboro Baptist church all stop breathing.

    For those that didn't watch the video, let me summarize:
    all white people are racist
    black people can't be racist for hating whites because whites are the devil.
    the facts don't matter, Darren Wilson should be killed, he should be hung.

    The only difference between these f&%ktards and the KKK is the skin color.
    Just to be clear I wasn't responding directly to that video, just the situation there currently and the people I have seen or read about.
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    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    If you watched the video Ezzzzy1 is responding too, then it is clear these people (I am hesitant to call them people) have full responsibility for where they are in life. With the attitudes and views they express, I give zero f&^ks if they all end up in jail or dead, just like I don't care if the KKK or Westboro Baptist church all stop breathing.
    In general, not specific to this case, I do have to say that not all people get the same opportunities in life. I see it everyday with these rich kids I work with. They graduated college with D's because their parents paid 100% of tuition and they never had to carry a job or do much other than go to college. I on the other hand came from a single parent home and grew up in a bad neighborhood and no way could my family afford to sent me to college. So I had to get academic scholarships and work full time while in college. Then I see the rich kids act like we had the same opportunities....not true...I'd of loved to go to college and only worry about my studies and then pass with a D. When you get that diploma they don't care if one got it from getting B's and then other got it from D's....although no academic scholarship will allow someone to pass with D's; had to keep a 3.0gpa or risk losing scholarships.

    So then you look at other poor families and can you really say that they have full responsibility for where they are born and what they are born into? You think the poor kid (white, black, hispanic, etc) has the same opportunities being born into a bad situation. Some come from abusive households, parents that don't care, drugs, and crime/gangs...going to school is surviving that day and not so much to learn (how it was for me).

    Some kids are raised racist because that is all they know and not so sure that is their fault as children. They are pretty much brainwashed into it since hey day they can talk

    Then take it to the next level. Does a kid in poor Africa who barely has drinkable water really responsible for that? Or was that child just not fortunate enough to be born where we were; USA. Same goes for many families across our nation. I so wish everything was equal, but it is not.


    Not attacking you personally Jkol, just something I think about a lot and something to discuss.
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    In general, not specific to this case, I do have to say that not all people get the same opportunities in life. I see it everyday with these rich kids I work with. They graduated college with D's because their parents paid 100% of tuition and they never had to carry a job or do much other than go to college. I on the other hand came from a single parent home and grew up in a bad neighborhood and no way could my family afford to sent me to college. So I had to get academic scholarships and work full time while in college. Then I see the rich kids act like we had the same opportunities....not true...I'd of loved to go to college and only worry about my studies and then pass with a D. When you get that diploma they don't care if one got it from getting B's and then other got it from D's....although no academic scholarship will allow someone to pass with D's; had to keep a 3.0gpa or risk losing scholarships.

    So then you look at other poor families and can you really say that they have full responsibility for where they are born and what they are born into? You think the poor kid (white, black, hispanic, etc) has the same opportunities being born into a bad situation. Some come from abusive households, parents that don't care, drugs, and crime/gangs...going to school is surviving that day and not so much to learn (how it was for me).

    Some kids are raised racist because that is all they know and not so sure that is their fault as children. They are pretty much brainwashed into it since hey day they can talk

    Then take it to the next level. Does a kid in poor Africa who barely has drinkable water really responsible for that? Or was that child just not fortunate enough to be born where we were; USA. Same goes for many families across our nation. I so wish everything was equal, but it is not.


    Not attacking you personally Jkol, just something I think about a lot and something to discuss.
    I agree and this is something I was not expressing as well in much earlier posts. Sometimes I stop and think what would it be like if I had been born elsewhere or to different parents that didn't raise me the way they did. Things would be infinitely different, even if I had been born in the US just somewhere much poorer like LA instead of CA. America has one of the lowest scores for children moving up a station from their parents. So if you are born poor you are almost surely going to stay poor. Despite all these so called opportunities. Life involves a lot of luck but starting far up the food chain makes a huge difference.

    Certainly people can make it out but that isn't the norm. It certainly should be though.

    On the subject of working in school. My father in law will only hire people that worked through school. Because he knows it builds character and appreciation for hard work. I have to agree. I worked through school and I believe it taught me better life skills than if I had mommy and daddy pay for it all.
    Last edited by 07D675CO; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 12:08 PM.
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  5. #101
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by 07D675CO View Post
    I agree and this is something I was not expressing as well in much earlier posts. Sometimes I stop and think what would it be like if I had been born elsewhere or to different parents that didn't raise me the way they did. Things would be infinitely different, even if I had been born in the US just somewhere much poorer like LA instead of CA. America has one of the lowest scores for children moving up a station from their parents. So if you are born poor you are almost surely going to stay poor. Despite all these so called opportunities. Life involves a lot of luck but starting far up the food chain makes a huge difference.

    Certainly people can make it out but that isn't the norm. It certainly should be though.

    On the subject of working in school. My father in law will only hire people that worked through school. Because he knows it builds character and appreciation for hard work. I have to agree. I worked through school and I believe it taught me better life skills than if I had mommy and daddy pay for it all.
    Well I have seen it first hand growing up. For a example I knew a kid who his grandpa was in a gang, his father was in same gang, older and middle brother were in same gang so the odds he also ends up in the same gang is very high. Why, because that is what he sees as normal and doesn't know much different. Not like a 5 year old is able to distinguish what is right and wrong when he sees his own father doing this. Of course this kid ended up in same gang and has been in and out of jail/juvee his entire life. Sad thing is he is a smart kid, but his enviroment started out crappy and he never had the proper guidance to get out of it. Only reason I was smart enough is I have a awesome mother, but a lot of kids don't have this support so they are taught wrong since babies.

    Ebola and Malaria are another issue where I see people take for granted where we are. Notice very little was done for Malaria (a cure was only just started to be worked on recently) even though thousands die from it...because it manily occurs in poor regions. Nothing was done until it hit the countries that have money and then it was a problem. Same with Ebola; it was out of hand in poor Africa regions, but the minute one case turned up in USA it was a huge issue. Again because we are a richer country...and the only reason we are here is most of us were lucky enough to born here in USA. I fear what it would be like to be born into a poor African family where living conditions are so terrible it is common to see people die all around you. I basically just got lucky because none of us get to choose where or to who we are born.
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  6. #102
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Good for both of you for working through school. I was lucky enough to only have to work during the summers, but guess what I still worked hard through school and I continue to work hard. A good work ethic isn't something that all rich kids lack, you both are generalizing quite a bit acting as it if is. Much the like the ignorant clowns in the video are generalizing when they say every white person is racist.

    I know it wasn't directed at me, but the comment about mommy and daddy paying for it all means absolutely shit to me. It just makes people that say that sound like jealous haters. I didn't get mad at the minority students at my high school that had the same or a worse GPA than me that got scholarships simply based on being minority students, so why are you pissed that some people didn't have to work through school just because you did?

    I understand not everyone starts at the same place in life, but guess what, life isn't fair. That isn't my fault nor is it my problem. I don't get mad at brain surgeons for making more money than me, they were likely born with a brain and aptitude for a career that makes them more money than me. Plus, it is a safe bet that they worked really hard to get where they are.

    Regardless of where the kids in the video started in life and what their situations are, staying in that life and station has far more to do with their garbage attitudes, lack of morals, and general desire to get into trouble rather than go to school and get an education. I have zero to do with their situations they were born into, nor do I have anything to do with why they stay there. Opportunities are out there, but not for a group like this.


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    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    Good for both of you for working through school. I was lucky enough to only have to work during the summers, but guess what I still worked hard through school and I continue to work hard. A good work ethic isn't something that all rich kids lack, you both are generalizing quite a bit acting as it if is. Much the like the ignorant clowns in the video are generalizing when they say every white person is racist.

    I know it wasn't directed at me, but the comment about mommy and daddy paying for it all means absolutely shit to me. It just makes people that say that sound like jealous haters. I didn't get mad at the minority students at my high school that had the same or a worse GPA than me that got scholarships simply based on being minority students, so why are you pissed that some people didn't have to work through school just because you did?

    I understand not everyone starts at the same place in life, but guess what, life isn't fair. That isn't my fault nor is it my problem. I don't get mad at brain surgeons for making more money than me, they were likely born with a brain and aptitude for a career that makes them more money than me. Plus, it is a safe bet that they worked really hard to get where they are.

    Regardless of where the kids in the video started in life and what their situations are, staying in that life and station has far more to do with their garbage attitudes, lack of morals, and general desire to get into trouble rather than go to school and get an education. I have zero to do with their situations they were born into, nor do I have anything to do with why they stay there. Opportunities are out there, but not for a group like this.
    Wow, this is really your answer huh

    I ain't hating on you at all man,...I prefer to have come from the bottom and worked to where I got; has made me into what I am now. Not saying anything about your situation (hell I didn't know you didn't work through college...sheesh) because I am sure most people would choose that route over growing up poor...my point is nobody gets that choice and it is hard to judge what others have went through unless you get to be in their shoes....I really was not generalizing that all rich kids are that way....sorry you took it like that, because I only meant not everyone has same opportunities...good or bad.

    I guess you didn't get what I was trying to say or just didn't care to. Of course life ain't fair, but your attitude that it isn't your problem is sad....but you are right and just be lucky you didn't have to deal with the problems some people do. Not sure where you got I was crying over this when I clearly stated people in other countries have it way worse. I am very fortunate to have what I do and I cherish that daily
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 01:01 PM.
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    Good for both of you for working through school. I was lucky enough to only have to work during the summers, but guess what I still worked hard through school and I continue to work hard. A good work ethic isn't something that all rich kids lack, you both are generalizing quite a bit acting as it if is. Much the like the ignorant clowns in the video are generalizing when they say every white person is racist.

    I know it wasn't directed at me, but the comment about mommy and daddy paying for it all means absolutely shit to me. It just makes people that say that sound like jealous haters. I didn't get mad at the minority students at my high school that had the same or a worse GPA than me that got scholarships simply based on being minority students, so why are you pissed that some people didn't have to work through school just because you did?

    I understand not everyone starts at the same place in life, but guess what, life isn't fair. That isn't my fault nor is it my problem. I don't get mad at brain surgeons for making more money than me, they were likely born with a brain and aptitude for a career that makes them more money than me. Plus, it is a safe bet that they worked really hard to get where they are.

    Regardless of where the kids in the video started in life and what their situations are, staying in that life and station has far more to do with their garbage attitudes, lack of morals, and general desire to get into trouble rather than go to school and get an education. I have zero to do with their situations they were born into, nor do I have anything to do with why they stay there. Opportunities are out there, but not for a group like this.
    Since you wanted to take it personally. I'm not jealous just saying they didn't have the same struggles or obstacles to overcome. Getting handouts doesn't make you cherish it as much or appreciate it as much. The fact that you don't care about others in your community is very telling. Seems a lot like I got mine, F you if you can't get yours. Instead of lets make this better for everyone. Generalizing but something I see with those that didn't have to earn it.
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    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Wow, this is really your answer huh

    I ain't hating on you at all man,...I prefer to have come from the bottom and worked to where I got; has made me into what I am now. Not saying anything about your situation (hell I didn't know you didn't work through college...sheesh) because I am sure most people would choose that route over growing up poor...my point is nobody gets that choice and it is hard to judge what others have went through unless you get to be in their shoes....I really was not generalizing that all rich kids are that way....sorry you took it like that, because I only meant not everyone has same opportunities...good or bad.

    I guess you didn't get what I was trying to say or just didn't care to. Of course life ain't fair, but your attitude that it isn't your problem is sad....but you are right and just be lucky you didn't have to deal with the problems some people do. Not sure where you got I was crying over this when I clearly stated people in other countries have it way worse. I am very fortunate to have what I do and I cherish that daily
    I didn't take it personally, but acting like a kid that is rich has every advantage is silly. Rich kids can have garbage parents as well, single parent households, divorce and bad parenting isn't only a poor person problem. I know people that had crap parents and they turned out great, and I know people that had great parents and turned out to be garbage adults.

    I know what you are trying to say, but I am not going to buy into it. I can only accept responsibility for my own actions. I am not responsible for the situations of others simply because I grew up in a middle class family. My mom was a broke single mom teaching elementary school. I was lucky I still had my dad around and later I ended up with a great step dad as well. I know I was lucky in that regard, but just because someone wasn't as lucky doesn't excuse them when they are hateful, angry, and horribly misguided people.

    I don't look down on people for growing up differently than I did, but I do look down at people like those in the video, because they are ignorant, hateful people. Much the way I look down on the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, or any other hateful group. They aren't helping their cause by burning down their own neighborhoods, burning down minority owned businesses in the process. They are more damaging to their own cause then any number of racist white people. They are hurting themselves and their families and communities.

    Ask those that participated in the LA riots how that fight for their cause helped their neighborhoods. It is a safe bet those communities are far worse than they were before the riots took place which is the same fate for Fergusson. It is just sad those living there that burned their own community to the ground while the world watched and collectively wondered WTF these people were thinking, they were too blind by their rage and hatred to see they were only pushing themselves further into a hole.

    Take a look at people from Mexico or from Central/South American countries that go through hell to get to the US to imrove their situations in life. They were all dealt a crappy hand by being born in 2nd/3rd world countries, but they bust their asses and fight to overcome a bad start. They don't sit and bitch about everyone keeping them down. I work in construction and it is booming all over the country right now, including right here in CO. There are plenty of opportunities for those willing to work hard. People from other countries have figured it out, it is sad that many right here in the US haven't. And while they sit on the sidelines and bitch about no opportunities, millions of hard working people from other countries are arriving every year and grabbing those opportunities that others say aren't available.
    Last edited by JKOL; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 01:45 PM.


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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    I will be back later for this thread.

  11. #107
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    I didn't take it personally, but acting like a kid that is rich has every advantage is silly. Rich kids can have garbage parents as well, single parent households, divorce and bad parenting isn't only a poor person problem. I know people that had crap parents and they turned out great, and I know people that had great parents and turned out to be garbage adults.

    I know what you are trying to say, but I am not going to buy into it. I can only accept responsibility for my own actions. I am not responsible for the situations of others simply because I grew up in a middle class family. My mom was a broke single mom teaching elementary school. I was lucky I still had my dad around and later I ended up with a great step dad as well. I know I was lucky in that regard, but just because someone wasn't as lucky doesn't excuse them when they are hateful, angry, and horribly misguided people.

    I don't look down on people for growing up differently than I did, but I do look down at people like those in the video, because they are ignorant, hateful people. Much the way I look down on the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, or any other hateful group. They aren't helping their cause by burning down their own neighborhoods, burning down minority owned businesses in the process. They are more damaging to their own cause then any number of racist white people. They are hurting themselves and their families and communities.

    Ask those that participated in the LA riots how that fight for their cause helped their neighborhoods. It is a safe bet those communities are far worse than they were before the riots took place which is the same fate for Fergusson. It is just sad those living there that burned their own community to the ground while the world watched and collectively wondered WTF these people were thinking, they were too blind by their rage and hatred to see they were only pushing themselves further into a hole.

    Take a look at people from Mexico or from Central/South American countries that go through hell to get to the US to imrove their situations in life. They were all dealt a crappy hand by being born in 2nd/3rd world countries, but they bust their asses and fight to overcome a bad start. They don't sit and bitch about everyone keeping them down. I work in construction and it is booming all over the country right now, including right here in CO. There are plenty of opportunities for those willing to work hard. People from other countries have figured it out, it is sad that many right here in the US haven't. And while they sit on the sidelines and bitch about no opportunities, millions of hard working people from other countries are arriving every year and grabbing those opportunities that others say aren't available.
    You are just making it seem way easier than it is. Statistics have proved it is not as easy to get out of poverty as it seems. Here is a good article by CBS on it:



    Poverty In America: Why It’s Difficult To Climb Out Of Poverty <-click

    Snipet from article:

    The “American Dream” gives Americans hope that if they work hard, they will eventually be successful and they will “climb up the ladder.” But, has the “American Dream” failed to deliver to many Americans? Indeed.
    In today’s society, it has become nearly impossible to “climb the ladder.” Those mail room jobs that later lead to a person becoming the President of the company rarely exist anymore. Many minimum wage workers work just as hard as anyone else, if not harder. But, their hard work is rarely rewarded with a raise or a promotion. Furthermore, our socioeconomic status is an unfortunate label that tends to stick with a person.
    Poor people are often viewed and treated differently — as if they were a small segment of the American population. As if being poor was their fault…
    To make matters worse, besides the way that they are viewed, poor people are often pushed further into poverty due to restrictions, lack of available funds, and unexpected financial burdens that they have no way to prepare for.


    P.S. Not saying crazy riots are the answer though or I condone that....only meant in general people don't get dealt the same hand and it is not as easy as people think to get out and become a product of their environment. I have not followed the Fergusun incident enough to speak on it, so this was a general statement from the one I underlined at first from you that stated "full responsibility for where they are in life "full" being the key word here....I can say responsibility, but not always full responsibility


    Few more article to show it is not easy to get out of poverty:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/op...anted=all&_r=0

    http://www.npr.org/2012/12/17/167449...out-of-poverty
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 02:07 PM.
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    When I first heard the story, I thought "that's f'd up". Then I heard about him being wanted for a robbery. Since there is no footage released of said robbery, I immediately grew suspicious that the police were maybe just trying to corroborate a backup story. Then I saw the guy's step-dad tell a mob to burn the city to the ground. Aha, now it all makes sense. Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean you have to be a terrible person. Not an excuse. I don't claim to be from a hard knock life, but I know lots who scratched their way through college, some made it out of poverty and are living the american dream, some aren't and are strapped with tons of debt living in poverty. Difference is that the people I know that aren't are not out robbing stores...

    Why does everything have to turn into "blame others"

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    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    You are just making it seem way easier than it is. Statistics have proved it is not as easy to get out of poverty as it seems. Here is a good article by CBS on it:



    Poverty In America: Why It’s Difficult To Climb Out Of Poverty <-click

    Snipet from article:

    The “American Dream” gives Americans hope that if they work hard, they will eventually be successful and they will “climb up the ladder.” But, has the “American Dream” failed to deliver to many Americans? Indeed.
    In today’s society, it has become nearly impossible to “climb the ladder.” Those mail room jobs that later lead to a person becoming the President of the company rarely exist anymore. Many minimum wage workers work just as hard as anyone else, if not harder. But, their hard work is rarely rewarded with a raise or a promotion. Furthermore, our socioeconomic status is an unfortunate label that tends to stick with a person.
    Poor people are often viewed and treated differently — as if they were a small segment of the American population. As if being poor was their fault…
    To make matters worse, besides the way that they are viewed, poor people are often pushed further into poverty due to restrictions, lack of available funds, and unexpected financial burdens that they have no way to prepare for.


    P.S. Not saying crazy riots are the answer though or I condone that....only meant in general people don't get dealt the same hand and it is not as easy as people think to get out and become a product of their environment.


    Few more article to show it is not easy to get out of poverty:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/op...anted=all&_r=0

    http://www.npr.org/2012/12/17/167449...out-of-poverty
    I never meant that it was easy, but it is impossible if you don't even try. See my Mexico and Central/South America example, many may never escape poverty, but they have a far better chance than someone not even trying.

    I doubled my salary from a few years ago, by taking a chance and changing careers and busting my ass. It wasn't easy, but it paid off. We can all improve our position in life, we might not go from poverty to upper middle class, or middle class to a 9 figure net worth, but if we don't try because it isn't easy then that is on the person not willing to try.


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    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by GMR View Post
    When I first heard the story, I thought "that's f'd up". Then I heard about him being wanted for a robbery. Since there is no footage released of said robbery, I immediately grew suspicious that the police were maybe just trying to corroborate a backup story. Then I saw the guy's step-dad tell a mob to burn the city to the ground. Aha, now it all makes sense. Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean you have to be a terrible person. Not an excuse. I don't claim to be from a hard knock life, but I know lots who scratched their way through college, some made it out of poverty and are living the american dream, some aren't and are strapped with tons of debt living in poverty. Difference is that the people I know that aren't are not out robbing stores...

    Why does everything have to turn into "blame others"
    For sure!

    Well that is partly my point....look how messed up this guys step-dad was to say that. I am sure this attitude is what this guy was raised by. Not right of course, but I bet this person was just not raised correctly. For all we know his step-father robs too so that is why this fool thought it was ok....just saying I have seen this all my life growing up in bad places....kids really had no clue what right and wrong is.

    The little I know on the case I will say...you attack a cop you should understand their will be consequences. Not even just because they are a cop, but that is how authority works! Again not sure on details, but anyone attacks a cop I feel little sympathy because that is authority and it has to be followed....I do wish less lethal force could be used, but I would understand a officer should not have to risk their life for some criminal attacking them....in reason of course

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    I never meant that it was easy, but it is impossible if you don't even try. See my Mexico and Central/South America example, many may never escape poverty, but they have a far better chance than someone not even trying.

    I doubled my salary from a few years ago, by taking a chance and changing careers and busting my ass. It wasn't easy, but it paid off. We can all improve our position in life, we might not go from poverty to upper middle class, or middle class to a 9 figure net worth, but if we don't try because it isn't easy then that is on the person not willing to try.
    Well you do understand that the Mexico situation you are referring to is illegal; they sneak over here to America. They risk getting deported so it is not like they broke through this barrier. Then it just hurts American more because they are not paying taxes. Then they will work for less than others so employees will use illegals over citizens just to save money. Mexico actually is improving their economy faster than us; go view how much the peso is now worth to thee dollar and compare that to 20 years ago. The peso is almost worth as much as the dollar now....because they have went up and we have went down.

    You took a chance and it worked out, but didn't seem like you had a lot to lose. One wrong chance for them could result in them being homeless.
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 02:26 PM.
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  15. #111
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by GMR View Post
    When I first heard the story, I thought "that's f'd up". Then I heard about him being wanted for a robbery. Since there is no footage released of said robbery, I immediately grew suspicious that the police were maybe just trying to corroborate a backup story. Then I saw the guy's step-dad tell a mob to burn the city to the ground. Aha, now it all makes sense. Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean you have to be a terrible person. Not an excuse. I don't claim to be from a hard knock life, but I know lots who scratched their way through college, some made it out of poverty and are living the american dream, some aren't and are strapped with tons of debt living in poverty. Difference is that the people I know that aren't are not out robbing stores...

    Why does everything have to turn into "blame others"
    It isn't hard to find the video of Michael Brown robbing the store. Even the main stream media showed it a lot.


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  16. #112
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    For sure!

    Well that is partly my point....look how messed up this guys step-dad was to say that. I am sure this attitude is what this guy was raised by. Not right of course, but I bet this person was just not raised correctly. For all we know his step-father robs too so that is why this fool thought it was ok....just saying I have seen this all my life growing up in bad places....kids really had no clue what right and wrong is.

    The little I know on the case I will say...you attack a cop you should understand their will be consequences. Not even just because they are a cop, but that is how authority works! Again not sure on details, but anyone attacks a cop I feel little sympathy because that is authority and it has to be followed....I do wish less lethal force could be used, but I would understand a officer should not have to risk their life for some criminal attacking them....in reason of course

    Well you do understand that the Mexico situation you are referring to is illegal; they sneak over here to America. They risk getting deported so it is not like they broke through this barrier. Then it just hurts American more because they are not paying taxes. Then they will work for less than others so employees will use illegals over citizens just to save money. Mexico actually is improving their economy faster than us; go view how much the peso is now worth to thee dollar and compare that to 20 years ago. The peso is almost worth as much as the dollar now....because they have went up and we have went down.

    You took a chance and it worked out, but didn't seem like you had a lot to lose. One wrong chance for them could result in them being homeless.
    Seriously??? Yes I am aware they are illegal, but you made it sound like poor people don't have a chance to change their situation, so I offered a counter point. Illegal or not, they aren't sitting on their asses and blaming white people, they are taking action to improve their standing. And in case you missed Obama's executive action, all those illegals that had kids on US soil, making those kids citizens of the USA, are now no longer at risk of being deported themselves by way of having an American child. Hey, they gamed the system, but I can't be mad at them for it. They figured out the system and they use it to their advantage.

    We can certainly agree that his parents did a shitty job raising him, ie his mom attacking his grandmother for selling shirts with his name on it.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2001373
    His stepdad is clearly a professional asshole.

    Will we always make the excuse for anyone with bad parents that it isn't their fault because they were raised poorly? My guess is her parents, assuming she was raised by two parents, weren't any better raising her, so I ask you, who breaks the cycle? If Michael Brown hadn't attacked a cop and gotten himself killed, he probably would have had a few kids and raised them as poorly as he was leading to them continuing the cycle of hatred, lack of education, and lack of resources leading to poverty. At some point, someone has to stand up and say we are screwing ourselves, we aren't being screwed by anyone but US. Accept responsibility and CHANGE. I also love the irony of someone claiming there are not jobs in their community as they are burning down or robbing the very businesses that could employ them.


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  17. #113
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Some people get it, like these guys: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. For those that continue making excuses, the cycle will continue unbroken.



    www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo


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  18. #114
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    Seriously??? Yes I am aware they are illegal, but you made it sound like poor people don't have a chance to change their situation, so I offered a counter point. Illegal or not, they aren't sitting on their asses and blaming white people, they are taking action to improve their standing. And in case you missed Obama's executive action, all those illegals that had kids on US soil, making those kids citizens of the USA, are now no longer at risk of being deported themselves by way of having an American child. Hey, they gamed the system, but I can't be mad at them for it. They figured out the system and they use it to their advantage.

    We can certainly agree that his parents did a shitty job raising him, ie his mom attacking his grandmother for selling shirts with his name on it.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2001373
    His stepdad is clearly a professional asshole.

    Will we always make the excuse for anyone with bad parents that it isn't their fault because they were raised poorly? My guess is her parents, assuming she was raised by two parents, weren't any better raising her, so I ask you, who breaks the cycle? If Michael Brown hadn't attacked a cop and gotten himself killed, he probably would have had a few kids and raised them as poorly as he was leading to them continuing the cycle of hatred, lack of education, and lack of resources leading to poverty. At some point, someone has to stand up and say we are screwing ourselves, we aren't being screwed by anyone but US. Accept responsibility and CHANGE. I also love the irony of someone claiming there are not jobs in their community as they are burning down or robbing the very businesses that could employ them.
    Well I provided links that show that it is not that easy to get out or poverty, but all you came back with was the Mexico thing You basically stated to do illegal activities to get ahead....not much different to me than a guy selling crack on corner. Same thing, he found a way to use the system (drug addicts) and profit from it. The illegal Mexican found a way to make money illegally so so did the hustler.

    I didn't write these articles but there are many out there and I do not see poverty getting better in this country

    As for parents, our childhood does unfortunately shape us as a person a lot...been proven for years and years. May only be 18 years, but they structure our life almost more than the rest of our life....the child brain can absorb a lot more information that a adult.

    I like to provide proof for what I say so here is a detailed study of exactly what I am talking about

    http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/98/01/98001.pdf

    Poverty.
    10 Family poverty experienced during a child’s early years is related to a variety
    of poor short-term outcomes such as delayed cognitive development (measured by IQ
    tests), and behavior problems.11 Children experiencing long-term poverty exhibit
    significantly increased levels of developmental delay compared to developmental delays
    found in children experiencing short-term poverty.12 Relationships exist between families
    with relatively low incomes and increased incidence of child maltreatment (child abuse and
    neglect), inconsistent discipline practices, and reduced parent-child interaction.13
    There are also associations between poverty and family stress, and behavior problems in
    preschool children.14 Some lifecourse outcomes may depend on the age at which children
    experience poverty, or on how long those experiences last

    Family and Neighborhood Violence.
    Family and neighborhood violence can affect

    children’s lifecourse outcomes. One recent study explores the extent to which inner city
    children and their mothers witness violent episodes within the home or community.49 It
    found that significant numbers of preschool children and their parents had either
    witnessed, or been a victim of, some kind of violent act. Many of those surveyed
    identified more than one episode of violence. In addition, parents who had witnessed
    violent acts were more likely to limit their children’s movement, to express fear for
    themselves and their children, and to limit their children’s play outdoors. Such responses
    to violence can affect a child’s development.50
    A recent survey of the research on family and neighborhood violence identifies several
    effects of such violence on children.51 For example, school-aged children who are
    exposed to violence can develop anxiety and sleep disturbances, and may become
    inattentive in class. Exposure to trauma in the first three years of life can cause similar
    disturbances. Further, very young children (under three years of age) also may experience
    difficulty developing trust and autonomy. Evidence is increasing that both preschool and
    school age children exposed to chronic community violence and violence in the home may
    develop Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).52 Among its symptoms are eating and
    sleeping disorders, anxious reactions, flashbacks, withdrawal, depression, or aggressive
    behaviors. Neighborhood violence also can affect the ability of parents to parent, which
    can affect child development.53 Further, living in a “high risk” neighborhood can increase
    the incidence of low birth weight.54
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 03:43 PM.
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  19. #115
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Well I provided links that show that it is not that easy to get out or poverty, but all you came back with was the Mexico thing You basically stated to do illegal activities to get ahead....not much different to me than a guy selling crack on corner. Same thing, he found a way to use the system (drug addicts) and profit from it. The illegal Mexican found a way to make money illegally so so did the hustler.

    I didn't write these articles but there are many out there and I do not see poverty getting better in this country

    As for parents, our childhood does unfortunately shape us as a person a lot...been proven for years and years. May only be 18 years, but they structure our life almost more than the rest of our life....the child brain can absorb a lot more information that a adult.

    I like to provide proof for what I say so here is a detailed study of exactly what I am talking about

    http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/98/01/98001.pdf

    Poverty.
    10 Family poverty experienced during a child’s early years is related to a variety
    of poor short-term outcomes such as delayed cognitive development (measured by IQ
    tests), and behavior problems.11 Children experiencing long-term poverty exhibit
    significantly increased levels of developmental delay compared to developmental delays
    found in children experiencing short-term poverty.12 Relationships exist between families
    with relatively low incomes and increased incidence of child maltreatment (child abuse and
    neglect), inconsistent discipline practices, and reduced parent-child interaction.13
    There are also associations between poverty and family stress, and behavior problems in
    preschool children.14 Some lifecourse outcomes may depend on the age at which children
    experience poverty, or on how long those experiences last
    Illegal immigration and selling crack are the same? I disagree, the government is trying to make all those illegal immigrants LEGAL. I don't see Obama rushing out to legalize crack. I find it funny that as someone typically right of center I am actually defending illegal immigration, but to be honest, I have been around construction long enough to see the illegal immigrants want to work, and they work hard. Other than skilled trades like welders, plumbers, eletricians, there aren't many white guys in this business, and maybe 1/200 workers are black guys. It isn't for a lack of opportunity because we can't find enough laborers right now, skilled or otherwise. If you can show up to work without being drunk or high, you will be hired. I won't even go into my experience on the indian reservation, other than to say I will gladly accept illegal immigrant workers before I do another project relying on Native American labor.

    Again, I agree that parents can really screw a kid up, but I ask you how does that change in poor communities where the majority of kids are raised by single parents or by relatives and have zero parents in their lives? At what point does someone say this isn't working and try to change? I will give you a hint, it isn't going to be a white guy that changes poor black communities. That change will have to come from within. Otherwise we will just continue to see baby makers having kids, never bothering to raise them properly, and then those bad kids will grow up and have their own kids that won't be raised right either, and the cycle will remain unbroken.


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  20. #116
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    Illegal immigration and selling crack are the same? I disagree, the government is trying to make all those illegal immigrants LEGAL. I don't see Obama rushing out to legalize crack. I find it funny that as someone typically right of center I am actually defending illegal immigration, but to be honest, I have been around construction long enough to see the illegal immigrants want to work, and they work hard. Other than skilled trades like welders, plumbers, eletricians, there aren't many white guys in this business, and maybe 1/200 workers are black guys. It isn't for a lack of opportunity because we can't find enough laborers right now, skilled or otherwise. If you can show up to work without being drunk or high, you will be hired. I won't even go into my experience on the indian reservation, other than to say I will gladly accept illegal immigrant workers before I do another project relying on Native American labor.

    Again, I agree that parents can really screw a kid up, but I ask you how does that change in poor communities where the majority of kids are raised by single parents or by relatives and have zero parents in their lives? At what point does someone say this isn't working and try to change? I will give you a hint, it isn't going to be a white guy that changes poor black communities. That change will have to come from within. Otherwise we will just continue to see baby makers having kids, never bothering to raise them properly, and then those bad kids will grow up and have their own kids that won't be raised right either, and the cycle will remain unbroken.
    You come with no facts, just speculation. Have you seen how other countries have legalized drugs and crime and drug use went down? Just because America has not done it does not mean it does not work. I'd pull up those facts, but seems like you don't even read what I post.

    The fact is people are going to do drugs whether they are legal or not; just depends from where. Look at how well CO and CA are doing from the legalization of Marijuana. You bet I'd rather drug addicts pay taxes on drugs because illegals do not and it is clogging up the system. You know most teachers in NM now need to know Spanish because a majority of their students speak Spanish...why because some public schools do not require a SS # so you have tons off illegals getting a free education for their kids when the poverty American has to pay taxes and follow the rules. You state you would hire these illegals and that is the main problem...they work for cheaper and since they do not have to report a W2 (taxes) nobody knows they are paid under minimum wage; therefore of course they will work and employers would hire them to save a buck....it is why Union and long term workers are scarce now. If you don't see how this is taking jobs away from Americans then go look at the un-employment rate...oh right all these people just are not as persistent as you I guess.

    As for your last question....it is quite obvious you did not even read the links I posted because your questions were answered by the study. You obviously are not getting that all people do not have the same opportunities and I have given you facts of childhood development and the impact on a environment of a growing child. So yeah again be lucky you had the past you did, but you need to stop acting like you had the same opportunity as a child in poor parts of India and realize how fortunate you are you were raised well
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 04:05 PM.
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  21. #117
    Senior Member JKOL's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    You come with no facts, just speculation. Have you seen how other countries have legalized drugs and crime and drug use went down? Just because America has not done it does not mean it does not work. I'd pull up those facts, but seems like you don't even read what I post.

    The fact is people are going to do drugs whether they are legal or not; just depends from where. Look at how well CO and CA are doing from the legalization of Marijuana. You bet I'd rather drug addicts pay taxes on drugs because illegals do not and it is clogging up the system. You know most teachers in NM now need to know Spanish because a majority of their students speak Spanish...why because some public schools do not require a SS # so you have tons off illegals getting a free education for their kids when the poverty American has to pay taxes and follow the rules. You state you would hire these illegals and that is the main problem...they work for cheaper and since they do not have to report a W2 (taxes) nobody knows they are paid under minimum wage; therefore of course they will work and employers would hire them to save a buck....it is why Union and long term workers are scarce now. If you don't see how this is taking jobs away from Americans then go look at the un-employment rate...oh right all these people just are not as persistent as you I guess.

    As for your last question....it is quite obvious you did not even read the links I posted because your questions were answered by the study. You obviously are not getting that all people do not have the same opportunities and I have given you facts of childhood development and the impact on a environment of a growing child. So yeah again be lucky you had the past you did, but you need to stop acting like you had the same opportunity as a child in poor parts of India and realize how fortunate you are you were raised well
    Have you heard of pay roll taxes? Have you heard of sales tax? There are no off the books workers on the projects I am on. You might have completely undocumented workers that aren't paying any kind of tax and are paid cash under the table, but where I am at, you can't get a job without proper documentation. Wether that documentation is valid or not, I can't say, but taxes still come out of every pay check they get. They might not be filing tax returns, but that really isn't a huge deal to me since 43% of Americans pay zero Federal income tax. Claiming illegals pay not tax is kind pointless because a lot of citizens in this country don't either. Including the wonderful Rev. Al Sharpton.

    Here is backup for you: http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of...ome-tax-2013-9

    More backup:
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/19/politi...nce/index.html


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  22. #118
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    Have you heard of pay roll taxes? Have you heard of sales tax? There are no off the books workers on the projects I am on. You might have completely undocumented workers that aren't paying any kind of tax and are paid cash under the table, but where I am at, you can't get a job without proper documentation. Wether that documentation is valid or not, I can't say, but taxes still come out of every pay check they get. They might not be filing tax returns, but that really isn't a huge deal to me since 43% of Americans pay zero Federal income tax. Claiming illegals pay not tax is kind pointless because a lot of citizens in this country don't either. Including the wonderful Rev. Al Sharpton.

    Here is backup for you: http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of...ome-tax-2013-9

    More backup:
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/19/politi...nce/index.html
    If that makes you feel better for hiring illegal immigrants, than more power to you. You should be proud to be a American! Obviously if they are documented they are most likely not illegals so that is a different thing. Although it is not hard to run a report to see if documents are real.



    Well I am out to the gym...it has been fun. You still lifting Jkol? Ever get that rotator cuffs healed we talked about?
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Dec 4th, 2014 at 06:20 PM.
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  23. #119

    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    Here is another that has figured it out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo



    Quote Originally Posted by JKOL View Post
    Some people get it, like these guys: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. For those that continue making excuses, the cycle will continue unbroken.



    www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo

  24. #120
    Senior Member birchyboy's Avatar
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    Re: What should be done in Ferguson

    This is loosely related to Ferguson, according to the article. It gives some insight into what municipalities have received from the DOD for surplus equipment:

    https://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...cops-giveaway/

    My little city of Aurora, CO has received the following:

    Item Quantity Total Value
    MINE RESISTANT VEHICLE 1 $412,000.00
    RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 126 $62,874.00
    SHIELD,PERSONAL PROTECTIVE 74 $7,030.00
    RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER 25 $3,450.00
    INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT 12 $620.00

    An even smaller town, Florence, has received almost $3.7M in equipment, including a mine-resistant and two tactical vehicles. The scofflaws in Canon City better keep themselves in line.


    What about yours?

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