Did the Police Take this too Far or Suspects fault?

[Ezzzzy1]

So you feel it was justifiable to pull me over because I was Hispanic in a rich neighborhood....even though I did nothing wrong.......pretty sure that is called racial profiling and illegal!

Then I am sure it is worse for blacks....then people wonder why some are afraid to trust cops....exactly my point. Sheesh EJ was meant to be a cop for sure!


And so you know my family owns nearly 100 acres in that "rich neighborhood" and not my fault it is primarily owned by Anglos in a Hispanic majority town. Even nicer the cop told me it was because I was Hispanic; how professional!

I wasnt there. I dont know all the facts.

I will say that I want my neighborhood patrolled and if crime is down because the cops are pulling people that might look out of place over and busting their balls so be it.

I will also say, that while racial profiling is NOW illegal it hasnt always been and id be even more willing to bet that whenever this happened to you was BEFORE any such laws existed. I suppose you would have to look that up for yourself and see but my guess as to why the cop was so open about why he was pulling you over was because it was legal to pull someone over just because of the color of their skin.

Here is an even crazier thought. What if it wasnt 100% because of the color of your skin? What if there was other factors that went into play? Like, say - time of day? Condition of your car? Any other things that stuck out, like speed of your car? Whether you made a complete stop at the stop sign.... Etc etc.

I dont know man. Sure, I can side with you and say that it must have sucked but really its not the end of the world. The victim roll would be to say that is something that has "scared" you instead of using it all as a learning experience.

You of all people should be happy that laws have been passed to protect innocent kids from driving around rich neighborhoods and mindlessly getting pulled over. Heaven for bid any cop was ever trying to prevent a crime

[Ezzzzy1]

Didn't you read his post? According to him laws don't count for cops. We need to all learn a lesson from our keepers.

How dare you be brown in a white neighborhood!

Lets assume you are the one "reading posts". Show me where in any of my posts that I said "laws dont count for cops".

[The Black Knight]

Reminds me of this weekend when the dip shit at the McDonald's drive-thru screwed up my order. He clearly only has his Associates in Drive-Thru and not his Masters. And these retards picket for $15/hr.

Dude I hear that!! I've felt like when I get to the drive-thru speaker, and just telling the person on the other end, "hey, since you're going to screw up my order anyway, how about I just give you some money and you put what you think I might want in the bag." Gotta love crappy service these days. I even wonder if some of the people in these drive-thru's can even read. Because they hand you stuff that you don't even order. Or my favorite is when you're getting multiple different flavor drinks for people and the person doing the drinks just gives you all Diet Coke's. I mean really?? At least show some initiative.

I agree, these dick bags picket for $15 and hour but then give you $5 worth of work. Which will happen eventually. Then the cost gets passed on to the consumer. Now, not only do I have to pay for wrong stuff in my order, now I have to pay "MORE" for it and I'm having to pay "MORE" for crappy service.

I have however found a way to really piss them off. I ask for the manager, I explain in a polite and professional manner what has happened. And then ask for my money back. I tell them I don't want the correct order anymore, I want my money back and I'll go somewhere else. That hurts businesses more than anything else, when you take the money away from them. Cause then, they have to eat the botched order and the time it took to make it. I did this a few months ago at a local Popeyes, and the guy next to me had his order messed up as well. He did the same as me, asked for his money back. Told the manager that I had just got done talking to, "well if that guy can get his money back, I want mine back as well." The manager lady was pissed!! She just turned her back to both of us and instructed one of her minions to issues us our money back.


P.S.
sorry for the

[Ezzzzy1]

Nate. So lets say that Racial Profiling is a crime and blablabla... How is that or any point revolving around it relevant to Dave Hermans case? If you are saying F the Police because of "A", "B", "C" (all of your points) then how are any of your points connected to what happened to Herman?

I mean, if you are saying that cops are crooked and are always doing things that they shouldnt I would actually use the video that you provided as proof that citizens are pieces of shit and even more so I would use that same video to show how a situation with a shithead should be dealt with.

I will make the same bet with anyone. Put yo money where yo mouth is. $100 says neither of the two officers involved will loose their jobs over this.

I might even be willing double down and say that neither will see punishment from what came of that night.

[Aaron]

Actually yes. I would rather see a cop sit there and try to work things out with the civi before using force.

I do this, nearly every single time. My last use of force went from an unconscious party to a fight in less than a second. I just watched the video again. "Don't fight him, don't fight him." The commands are ineffective or ignored, he continues to fight. I yell 3 times for him to "Stop fighting!" I then yell "Taser Taser you're going to get Tased stop fighting!" The commands and warnings are ineffective, he continues to fight. The Taser is deployed and effective. After the Taser is deployed he tells us "I don't want to hurt anyone, I'll cooperate, please."

The Taser was deployed 9:17 minutes into our contact. Amazing, he went 9 minutes and 14 seconds without being beat up, shot, racially profiled, yelled at, without me showing any force besides being there, and I was trying everything I could to help him. Had a fire truck and ambulance run Code 3. He made the decision to fight the firefighters, and ignored 8 commands or warnings to stop fighting. 8 warnings! 8 times I tried to end his violent attack without using violence myself.

Was he thinking clearly? No. Did he know he was fighting cops and firefighters? I truly don't think so at that instant. But he knew I was a cop, that's why he approached me to begin with (I was in a gas station getting a drink when he did). All 7 of us were in uniforms, we had two fully marked cop cars, a bright yellow fire engine with lights on, and a red white and blue ambulance with its lights on. "Sir, while you are trying to assault this paramedic, can I show you my 3 forms of ID?"

Seriously Townie, come ride. You will see more patience and restraint than even you could expect from a Police Officer. I speak for myself, and the guys I work with. That's how confident I am in them.

[Ph03niX]

My points for this thread.

1) Police ride alongs are cool and interesting!

2) We seem to think that police abusing the system is getting higher and higher, but what if we're just seeing more and more of it because of tv, news stations, and social media. Back in the day, they didnt have anything but the newspaper. So there wasnt much insight on what was going on everywhere. Now everyone can see everything! .. just a thought.

[Aaron]

But how many forms?

Just one!

[Captain Obvious]

Seriously Townie, come ride. You will see more patience and restraint than even you could expect from a Police Officer. I speak for myself, and the guys I work with. That's how confident I am in them.

No, its impossible. The millions of officer interactions that occur every week and result in nothing is always offset by the dozen of videos and salacious headlines.

And clearly, if someone asks the general population an opinion survey, it must reflect reality.

[bulldog]

I wasnt there. I dont know all the facts.

I will say that I want my neighborhood patrolled and if crime is down because the cops are pulling people that might look out of place over and busting their balls so be it.

I will also say, that while racial profiling is NOW illegal it hasnt always been and id be even more willing to bet that whenever this happened to you was BEFORE any such laws existed. I suppose you would have to look that up for yourself and see but my guess as to why the cop was so open about why he was pulling you over was because it was legal to pull someone over just because of the color of their skin.

Here is an even crazier thought. What if it wasnt 100% because of the color of your skin? What if there was other factors that went into play? Like, say - time of day? Condition of your car? Any other things that stuck out, like speed of your car? Whether you made a complete stop at the stop sign.... Etc etc.

I dont know man. Sure, I can side with you and say that it must have sucked but really its not the end of the world. The victim roll would be to say that is something that has "scared" you instead of using it all as a learning experience.

You of all people should be happy that laws have been passed to protect innocent kids from driving around rich neighborhoods and mindlessly getting pulled over. Heaven for bid any cop was ever trying to prevent a crime

Again it sounds like you totally support racial profiling! Facts, no facts when it comes to profiling! I am sure it is because you have had little of it happen to you, but I feel if you were out into others shoes you would understand it better. Very hard to explain to someone that doesn't understand it, but it is not a good feeling to be profiled just because of the way I look or the color of my skin. If Hispanics were robbing the area that does not mean every Hispanic is that way.

No, the cop was open to say his comments because back then there were no small recorders and it would come down to my word against him......and guess who would win that one...always the officer!

You are making excuses for the officers EJ and you were not there and I can 100% say I was doing nothing wrong, my car was not a factor, etc. Again sounds like you have not seen the bad part of police officers (there are some really good one too). I grew up in a poor area and the difference you see is huge compared to the upper scaled neighborhood I assume you live in now (and I do too)! I've seen cops plant drugs, put my friend into ICU (he sued and won, but damage to him was done), false charges/arrests, etc.

It may not be "the end of the world" to you, but again seems like this is not something that effects you so of course you would feel this way. I am not saying I am one either, but a racial profiling and racism do exist and it is bad for some!

Would you like me to tell you about the lady I got fired at work for calling me a "spic"; yet I was born in this country and so were my last 5 generations, or maybe the guy that told me to go back to Mexico if I want to speak Spanish in his country; when I do not even speak Spanish. Oh or maybe the guy I got fired at Walgreens because he told me "I am from this country so I can do math better than a Mexican like you". This was all in last 10 years! You have met me and I don't even look "Mexican" (I am Spanish). So honestly do you really have these things happen to you? Would you feel different if they did? Would you feel good about it?

Nate. So lets say that Racial Profiling is a crime and blablabla... How is that or any point revolving around it relevant to Dave Hermans case? If you are saying F the Police because of "A", "B", "C" (all of your points) then how are any of your points connected to what happened to Herman?

I mean, if you are saying that cops are crooked and are always doing things that they shouldnt I would actually use the video that you provided as proof that citizens are pieces of shit and even more so I would use that same video to show how a situation with a shithead should be dealt with.

I will make the same bet with anyone. Put yo money where yo mouth is. $100 says neither of the two officers involved will loose their jobs over this.

I might even be willing double down and say that neither will see punishment from what came of that night.

Man this has all been discussed months back when this thread was made, but ok I'll summarize pretty easily: This could have been dealt with better. I've already pointed out parts in the video where I clearly did not see that Dave was doing anything other than asking for ID (yes he was being loud); I see no attempts to attack the police. When he was tazed the officers was on the side of Dave and he did not make any moves to go at the opfficer; he was in process of kneeling and as he did so he was tazed (that was my take from video). Not saying what Dave did was the best as it was not, but why is force always used so fast.....that was the main point. You may want to go back and read all the posts man since you are late to this party

Bet???? WTF...why would I bet when this is exactly what I am saying....cops have the power and there word usually comes down over your own and it is very hard to challenge them. You can see at end the officer clearly messed up and forgot to turn on his own dashboard camera so all we have is Dave's wifes video....believe me without that this would not even have got this far. And basically the whole issue here was "was physical force needed"....yet "forms of id", "he wasn't respectful to cops", "he waited till a lighted area" etc have got polluted into this when it all came down to why was he tazed.

How about instead we use that money and bet on a good olde fashion arm wrestle? I'll even double the money if you win and I will use my weaker left hand

My points for this thread.

2) We seem to think that police abusing the system is getting higher and higher, but what if we're just seeing more and more of it because of tv, news stations, and social media. Back in the day, they didnt have anything but the newspaper. So there wasnt much insight on what was going on everywhere. Now everyone can see everything! .. just a thought.

I agree 100%! That is why these videos keep popping up that expose some of this and why we may need to think about a change how police officers deal with some situations.



And to clear it up I do not hate Police officers at all....just the crappy ones. There are some awesome cops and I have actually met a few on this board in past. I do respect an appreciate what they do...the good ones!

[bulldog]

Ok, here is another good one on racial profiling that happened to me last week!


I work in a high-rise building downtown. I am dressed in business slacks and button up dress shirt. I walk into restroom and am at the sink washing my hands when this guy walks in:


Guy: Hey what’s going on with the walls out there?
Me: I don’t know looks like they must be repainting
Guy: Did you also notice the men bathroom sign is broken
Me: Yeah I saw that last week it got broken
Guy: Well can you get that fixed?
Me: Me? No I can’t get it fixed
Guy: Well can you at least report it or open a ticket
Me: I can inform my company and see if they can tell building management
Guy: (gets a puzzled look on his face) Oh you don’t work for maintenance.
Me: No, I work for same company as you
Guy: Sorry thought you worked for maintenance


So my only guess could be since all the maintenance men are Mexican in my building, it was assumed I was also one of them. I did not have a maintenance badge or anything to hint I was part of maintenance so what else could I assume?


Yet in your thinking it is ok for this guy to assume this because of profiling? I mean all the other maintenance men are Mexican so it is ok to assume other Hispanics in building must be too based on what you call “facts”.

[#1Townie]

No, its impossible. The millions of officer interactions that occur every week and result in nothing is always offset by the dozen of videos and salacious headlines.

And clearly, if someone asks the general population an opinion survey, it must reflect reality.

Well to argue that point all the unarmed people being shot is a little redundant as officer fatalities have dropped as much as they have.

How can an officer really expect me to believe he was afraid when he had body armor. A tazer. A shot gun. An ar15. Pick whatever 40cal he likes with a few mags.

A knife. Brass knuckles. Backup one call for help away.

The suspect? Nothing. T shirt and jeans.

[Ezzzzy1]

Nate Dogg.... Ive been profiled and ive already said its not fun. I am however not of the "victim" mentality. Im sorry the road has been tough on you. I am in NO way saying I support racial profiling or making excuses for the cops.

Maybe I should say that I support profiling (simply). What if 911 had been stopped (by the ticket lady at the airport, the one that felt bad profiling someone that looked like a "terrorist"). What if it stops someone from selling crystal meth to middle school kids. I dont care what color you are, if you look like a terrorist or a drug dealer and im a cop I just might sweat you depending on the surrounding circumstances.

Either way. The argument is more of a personal one for you than it is for me. I have been pulled over because of the color of my skin and questioned before, a few times but I choose to not carry that bag of crap around with me.

For what its worth, racial profiling laws didnt really start to fall into place until 1996 on the federal side, anything before that point was free game. On top of that, each state has their own set of laws. Profiling is still legal as long as it doesnt violate anyone civil rights, as it should be.

[#1Townie]

Ej why would anyone take that bet when cops can murder cuffed people and not get in trouble?

[VIDEO] Handcuffed unarmed man shot dead by El Paso police, Daniel Rodri...: https://youtu.be/by2_Bks1AWc

[bulldog]

Well to argue that point all the unarmed people being shot is a little redundant as officer fatalities have dropped as much as they have.

How can an officer really expect me to believe he was afraid when he had body armor. A tazer. A shot gun. An ar15. Pick whatever 40cal he likes with a few mags.

A knife. Brass knuckles. Backup one call for help away.

The suspect? Nothing. T shirt and jeans.

I am very curious on the reply to this because this is exactly what confuses me; all that protection and scared of one guy in a tshirt because he was loud and "in shape".

Nate Dogg.... Ive been profiled and ive already said its not fun. I am however not of the "victim" mentality. Im sorry the road has been tough on you. I am in NO way saying I support racial profiling or making excuses for the cops.

Maybe I should say that I support profiling (simply). What if 911 had been stopped (by the ticket lady at the airport, the one that felt bad profiling someone that looked like a "terrorist"). What if it stops someone from selling crystal meth to middle school kids. I dont care what color you are, if you look like a terrorist or a drug dealer and im a cop I just might sweat you depending on the surrounding circumstances.

Either way. The argument is more of a personal one for you than it is for me. I have been pulled over because of the color of my skin and questioned before, a few times but I choose to not carry that bag of crap around with me.

For what its worth, racial profiling laws didnt really start to fall into place until 1996 on the federal side, anything before that point was free game. On top of that, each state has their own set of laws. Profiling is still legal as long as it doesnt violate anyone civil rights, as it should be.

Well glad to hear you do not support “racial profiling” because I really was thinking you did. I get what you mean and in a perfect world people like meth sellers, terrorists, etc would fit the part, but the fact is there is not a specific way any of those look. So is it fair to the Muslim guy he gets stopped for being a terrorist all the time just because it may save someone in future. Should every time a black person robs another person that gives the right to stop every black person to make sure they are not going to rob someone….and why because they are black. I don’t get it because I have seen messed up people in every race so it is not about race to me but about humans that we all are; good and bad. To me there is no way to label people based on looks……

I am not complaining, just putting it out there that it happens. I actually laugh at these people now because they are just ignorant and that is hard to fix.

[#1Townie]

Ok, here is another good one on racial profiling that happened to me last week!


I work in a high-rise building downtown. I am dressed in business slacks and button up dress shirt. I walk into restroom and am at the sink washing my hands when this guy walks in:


Guy: Hey what’s going on with the walls out there?
Me: I don’t know looks like they must be repainting
Guy: Did you also notice the men bathroom sign is broken
Me: Yeah I saw that last week it got broken
Guy: Well can you get that fixed?
Me: Me? No I can’t get it fixed
Guy: Well can you at least report it or open a ticket
Me: I can inform my company and see if they can tell building management
Guy: (gets a puzzled look on his face) Oh you don’t work for maintenance.
Me: No, I work for same company as you
Guy: Sorry thought you worked for maintenance


So my only guess could be since all the maintenance men are Mexican in my building, it was assumed I was also one of them. I did not have a maintenance badge or anything to hint I was part of maintenance so what else could I assume?


Yet in your thinking it is ok for this guy to assume this because of profiling? I mean all the other maintenance men are Mexican so it is ok to assume other Hispanics in building must be too based on what you call “facts”.

Stop being a victim bro. God.

[#1Townie]

I am very curious on the reply to this because this is exactly what confuses me; all that protection and scared of one guy in a tshirt because he was loud and "in shape".

He did do as he was told. He deserved it and is lucky they didn't use him as target practice.

[bulldog]

He did do as he was told. He deserved it and is lucky they didn't use him as target practice.

Just funny….I have tried to fight two guys at once and learned fast this is not the movies and way harder than it looks. Then add that the two guys have weapons and body armor I could not imagine it would be that difficult; especially with “training” that police state they get. Heck if not call in some more officers before just tazing a guy; not like he was in process of harming anyone with his loud mouth (let’s be honest that is all it was because Herman never threatened them or made any type of moves I saw to harm the officers…just a loud mouth).

[#1Townie]

Just funny….I have tried to fight two guys at once and learned fast this is not the movies and way harder than it looks. Then add that the two guys have weapons and body armor I could not imagine it would be that difficult; especially with “training” that police state they get. Heck if not call in some more officers before just tazing a guy; not like he was in process of harming anyone with his loud mouth (let’s be honest that is all it was because Herman never threatened them or made any type of moves I saw to harm the officers…just a loud mouth).

Yeah man its kind of sad to see people okay with it.