Obvioulsy the whole thing is a tragedy...

[~Barn~]

... but if the man knew the person he needed to save had that dog...it's a shame he didn't take a pistol or shotgun in with him, dispatch the dog as necessary, and then attempt to save his neighbors life. What a shitty story to read. =\

Pit Bull Fatally Attacks Neighbor Trying To Save Its Owner:

[Captain Obvious]

Per the article, it is implied he was already visiting. So would have to see emergency, determine killing dog was necessary (versus just locking it in a separate room), leave, fetch the pistol, return..... doesn't make sense.

Add fuel to the fire for the anti-pitbull contingent.

[~Barn~]

Well to refine my point then, let me simplify it a bit for you. I'd rather the dog was dead then the two men.

Because if I'm hearing you right, the "implied" story you seem to be reinforcing here, sounds even more ridiculous and paints and even more unpredictable and dangerous nature of the dog, than what my "implied" story would have hoped to happen.

1.) Two men - neighbors - visiting with one another over an afternoon enjoying each others company. Dog is accessible to the room, presumably calm natured and irrelevant to the situation at that given moment.

2.) One man falls ill to the floor, desperately sick or unresponsive (the dogs owner). The dog still accessible to the room at that given moment changes nature and is no longer passive.

3.) Second man attempts to help first man who appears to be dying in front of him on the floor of the apartment. Man attempts to render aid and help save a life.

4.) Dog accessible to the men now decides to attack and ultimately kill the man's neighbor and potential would-be life saver.

5.) Two people are now deceased. One by nature and one by one of nature's creatures.

So yeah.... Thanks for your take on the story, but you've made a major mistake lumping me into a contingent. Either these kinds of dogs are incredibly prone to violence & aggression at the slightest misperception, or they are so stupid and unpredictable that they don't have the mental cognition as to when to temper their violence and aggression, even as someone tries to save the life of their loyal owner and protector. No wonder cops like to shoot these animals when they are "loose" and at the scene of a emergency. I don't blame them.

So no sir... I am not adding fuel to any anti-anything. If those contingents exists, it is stories like this that add the fuel to their fire and their cause, not me. I just dissect the logic of it all, and offered up to the forum a hypothetical, where one man is still alive and perhaps another man may have been saved. And yes... at the expense of the dog.

[Captain Obvious]

Woah, sounds like someone is having a bad day or just being very sensitive.

1) Imply was clearly stated in my comment about the article implying the situation. Which is clearly not the understanding you had based on your first post. it's a shame he didn't take a pistol or shotgun in with him
2) "Well to refine my point then, let me simplify it a bit for you." Way to jump straight to condescending.
3) My "story" or sequence of events calls out your first version. Since the article implies that the visitor was already there before the medical issue occurred..... your first post makes no sense where you stated. if the man knew the person he needed to save had that dog...it's a shame he didn't take a pistol or shotgun in with him, dispatch the dog as necessary, and then attempt to save his neighbors life
Clearly in your second post, you have shown that your first post was wrong. See sequence 1 - 4 outing the same thing the article was implying.
4) I made no association about you and the anti-pitbull contingent That was a universal statement that another pitbull article/incident would be tossed into the debate used against a specific breed. Note, pit bull article/incident, NOT thread on a motorcycle forum. I don't know or care about YOUR specific position on the subject. If you took it that way, all I can say is sorry you assumed that. That was you misreading.

So no clue why you have your panties in a wad, I was pointing out why having a firearm to shoot the dog doesn't make sense since the need didn't exist beforehand.

[#1Townie]

Well to refine my point then, let me simplify it a bit for you. I'd rather the dog was dead then the two men.

Because if I'm hearing you right, the "implied" story you seem to be reinforcing here, sounds even more ridiculous and paints and even more unpredictable and dangerous nature of the dog, than what my "implied" story would have hoped to happen.

1.) Two men - neighbors - visiting with one another over an afternoon enjoying each others company. Dog is accessible to the room, presumably calm natured and irrelevant to the situation at that given moment.

2.) One man falls ill to the floor, desperately sick or unresponsive (the dogs owner). The dog still accessible to the room at that given moment changes nature and is no longer passive.

3.) Second man attempts to help first man who appears to be dying in front of him on the floor of the apartment. Man attempts to render aid and help save a life.

4.) Dog accessible to the men now decides to attack and ultimately kill the man's neighbor and potential would-be life saver.

5.) Two people are now deceased. One by nature and one by one of nature's creatures.

So yeah.... Thanks for your take on the story, but you've made a major mistake lumping me into a contingent. Either these kinds of dogs are incredibly prone to violence & aggression at the slightest misperception, or they are so stupid and unpredictable that they don't have the mental cognition as to when to temper their violence and aggression, even as someone tries to save the life of their loyal owner and protector. No wonder cops like to shoot these animals when they are "loose" and at the scene of a emergency. I don't blame them.

So no sir... I am not adding fuel to any anti-anything. If those contingents exists, it is stories like this that add the fuel to their fire and their cause, not me. I just dissect the logic of it all, and offered up to the forum a hypothetical, where one man is still alive and perhaps another man may have been saved. And yes... at the expense of the dog.

Oh is that right? Well I can find three times the articles where a pit saves someone over hurts anyone. That's a simple fact.

Your ignorance is pathetic. It was a bad situation. Nothing more.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/...g-of-the-year/

Don't take my word for it. Go read. Honestly go read any real article on the subject. You will find over and over the truth about the animal.

[~Barn~]

You're probably right that the tone of my response was harsh C.O. I just hate that things like this happen (attacks - if not attacks leading to deaths) all too frequently because of a particular animal that is perceived by many to be harmless and basically like all the others "with the right owner". This dog didn't just bite someone, it attacked and killed somebody. He wasn't harming the owner - clearly - and presumably he made had no aggression toward the dog.

I appreciate you taking into consideration the fact that I perhaps misread into your first post, but it did feel like you were dismissing my post and the tragedy of not only this individual situation but all pitbull attacks as being rhetoric. I find situations like this heartbreaking and the dog breed is always seeming to come full circle back to these ones. The whole situation just defies logic to me and I have a feeling if the man owned a Husky or a German Shepard or some other large dog, chances are EXTREMELY greater that we wouldn't be hearing this headline. Sorry it all rubbed me the wrong way.

As for you Townie, I don't see any need for you and I to start comparing a sum of attack stories like this one that I could easily find, and your sum of Lassie saves Jimmy from the well stories that you claim to have at x3 the quantity. Sure, you can post one positive story from 4 years ago and claim all the substantiated "fact" that you want but as we've all become accustom to, you're just simply finding one particular perspective to cite and expecting it to sell us into believing the rest of the data you're comfortable casually fabricating just because you believe it to be true. You might think my ignorance is pathetic, but your idiocy is truly remarkable.
"Don't take my word for it. Go read. Honestly go read any real article on the subject."

Like the article I posted was not related to the subject of pitbulls attacking people and somehow not a "real" story?? When I go read the real articles and start searching for the truth you're talking about, should I start in 2011 like you did? You're so stupid I honestly don't know how you survive day to day.

[~Barn~]

So Townie... I loved the human interested blub you linked me to, and I'm sure many other dogs have done admirable things for humans over the last 5 years, but in my search for more information, here are some results from a joint US/Canada study covering "the subject" from late 1982 through December 31, 2014. I hope that the recentness and relevancy of this data doesn't disappoint you, but give it a try...
http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-atta...ifton-2014.pdf

And because I don't honestly expect you to understand it - even if you are somehow able to read it - here's a individual serving size for you with the math already done. Validate it with the data in the article if you'd like:

- In 2014 there were (42) dog bite-related fatalities that occurred.
- Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total dog population in the United States.
- Despite the fact that they are highly regulated in major cities and in military housing, (27) of those deaths were attributed to pit bulls. This was in 2014 alone; the year that just ended.
- So to recap, a dog breed that accounted for 6% of the total US dog population last year, was responsible for 64% of all US dog-bite related fatalities. 27 of 42.

So yeah... while your tiny brain soaks that up, I'll wait so you can find me the 81 stories from 2014 (27 x 3) where a pit-bull "saved" somebody, instead of.. you know... "hurting" them... er... "killing" them. And to think someone like you, feels comfortable calling me ignorant...

Fuckin' moron.

[#1Townie]

Hahahaha barn you are just flat out pathetic. Omg 27 people died from pitbulls? But then again how could that be as pitbull isn't even a breed of dog.

So a whole 27 people and the species should be eliminated right? Ummmm. Sounds a little retarded bro.

Wait wait. 27 people from two different countries!!! Holy shit won't someone please help us from this incredible danger!

But because they save the data on how many people dogs help I will have to resort to stories.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5563496

There is 16 more stories that made the news.

But then again bro 27 people out of 360,000,000. Lol holy shit the risk is so fucking high. Let's take a look at some other numbers. Just from the us.

3500 people drowned on accident. Holy shit ban water!!

2200 people died from motorcycles each year.... Another 55,000 injured each year. Fuck man no more bikes. That shit is waaay too dangerous.


Between 250-300 kids are killed by their parents each year. Their own fucking parents. Nope you can't raise your own kids anymore.

30,000 people are killed in car accidents every year. Holy fucking shit batman. Its a fucking nightmare out on those roads. We need to ban these wheeled death cages FUCKING ASAP!

Look barn palm trees kill more people each year. You want want to kill off a species of animal because it killed 27 people?

So yes barn like I said it was a sad situation but nothing more. Simple as that. And yes your ignorance is fucking pathetic. But like I have come to learn you are nothing more than a sheep.

The idea that you would even find yourself in this situation is comical. Just in denver 3500 of these dogs were killed because of 14 attacks. Those numbers are so low its pure fear mongering that gets this bullshit in the news to begin with.

But don't worry barn I'm sure the government and your superboma is working diligently on saving you from this scary world.

No I won't call you a moron. FUCKING COWARD. that's what you are.

[bulldog]

I feel dogs are like people; good and bad in every race/breed. I think the reason Pitbulls get so much more heat is because they are capable of doing major damage where others dogs cannot. I have a buddy with a minpin (mini-Doberman) and that dog is the meanest dog I have ever seen. He attacks anyone that gets near him and constantly growls and snaps at people. The difference there is he weighs maybe 6pnds so his bark is way bigger than his bite, but if this dog were a full grown dog it would be major trouble. That is where dogs like Pitbulls get media attention because that same attack that may have nipped your ankles by a small dog, could be death from a Pitbull; I do not see that as the Pitbulls fault though; just how they are; stong and athletic (they win most agility contests now over other breeds).

The Bulldog went through this a lot back in the days where they swore they locked jaws and were also bred to fight, but science has shown they do not lock jaws; they just have strong jaws. Yet the Bulldog has been shown to be a fairly peaceful dog, but if it comes down to it can cause damage if messed with because of that powerful jaw. Heck our 8 pound Terrier has bit two of my friends they just laughed at it, yet my Bulldog has never bit anyone because if he did he would cause damage and then it would be reported.

Now since we all have the right to choose our dogs, it does make me wonder if some of this blame should come to the person that came into the dog’s house; yes his house. At that point a decision could be made to enter or not and if you decide to then should there be some blame? I’ve went to friends house and seen their dogs were mean dogs (I think how they are raised) and I choose to not go in because I saw the risk. I know this is a bit controversial, but I do feel it is the dogs house and people entering need to understand that. Also responsibility falls on the owner too for not putting this dog away, but I still see less blame on the dog.

It is sad the person got killed, but to a dog they do not really know the difference. Fold’s (JJ’s) dog on this board bit me at a CSC party. Him and I were wrestling and his dog bit me….yet I really did not blame the dog; I actually got more mad at JJ because he needs to be the one to make the decision if his dog can be ok with a party of people and if he knows his dog is that protective he should have realized it may have seen the situation wrong.

I am not for segregating a certain breed because as I first said, I think they are like people and some are just raised bad or not wired correctly and has less to do with the breed (other than some are capable of more damage). It is getting more common the more people buy “full breeds” because of inbreeding over the years. The best bet nowadays is to get a Mutt because they tend to have less problems. And I know I have a Bulldog, but I doubt I’d get another one because of the medical issues they have (from inbreeding over years and stupid dog shows) mine was rescued and that is why I have it now

Also I feel the Pitbull appeals to the wrong crowd and they end up with crappy owners that breed them to fight or leave them on a short chain most of their lives. I grew up with friends like this that fought Pitbulls and they were just not good people overall. I never once heard of anyone getting a “poodle” (which I believe is the #1 bitter) getting one to fight…..99% of time it is the Pitbull that gets pulled in for this horrible life and I see it more a bad owners than a bad dog.

[#1Townie]

Okay let's move on from the numbers and go right at the source of your information.

You wanted to use dogbites.org. that's just funny to begin with. What you and most other people who don't bother to use real evidence don't realize is... Wait for this... That website is run by a web designer. That's what she does for a living. She's a web designer. That's it. She was attacked once while jogging.

Now what you don't know is who she is. This woman is bat shit crazy she is on meds to not generalize the entire public into crazy people who want to hurt her. Lol.

Yes bro she's on meds because she thinks everyone is going to attack her. Lol. Isn't that a great source of information? Give me one sec and I will post some links for you to read.

First from an organization that's been around for little longer.

http://www.aspca.org/adopt/truth-about-pit-bulls

Here is Lynn's attack.

http://legal.pblnn.com/pro-bsl-exper...ontrol-records

But of course they just making stuff up. Right?

As for your source of information? Here you go.

"After a high-level attack, Disassociation sets in. This usually lasted for about two weeks. During this time, I was incapable of looking at anyone directly. Relating conversationally to people, even my close friends, was like the disorientation of going deaf. I watched their lips move, but only heard parts of sentences, and sometimes no sentences at all. I was a mild catatonic, dressed up as myself."

"My boyfriend, who lived with me, got the worst of it. I would slingshot from a stupefied state into one of aggression, especially if he approached me from behind. “F*** YOU!” I would shriek. “Don’t you EVER come up behind me without announcing yourself.”

http://thetruthaboutdogsbite.blogspo...y-one.html?m=1

Go to the home page and read more. Hell I will give you some video of her on the radio.

https://youtu.be/zjUeIao3Imo

And here is some more info to go read.

http://www.swaylove.org/colleen-lynn...m-dogsbite-org

[#1Townie]

I feel dogs are like people; good and bad in every race/breed. I think the reason Pitbulls get so much more heat is because they are capable of doing major damage where others dogs cannot. I have a buddy with a minpin (mini-Doberman) and that dog is the meanest dog I have ever seen. He attacks anyone that gets near him and constantly growls and snaps at people. The difference there is he weighs maybe 6pnds so his bark is way bigger than his bite, but if this dog were a full grown dog it would be major trouble. That is where dogs like Pitbulls get media attention because that same attack that may have nipped your ankles by a small dog, could be death from a Pitbull; I do not see that as the Pitbulls fault though; just how they are; stong and athletic (they win most agility contests now over other breeds).

The Bulldog went through this a lot back in the days where they swore they locked jaws and were also bred to fight, but science has shown they do not lock jaws; they just have strong jaws. Yet the Bulldog has been shown to be a fairly peaceful dog, but if it comes down to it can cause damage if messed with because of that powerful jaw. Heck our 8 pound Terrier has bit two of my friends they just laughed at it, yet my Bulldog has never bit anyone because if he did he would cause damage and then it would be reported.

Now since we all have the right to choose our dogs, it does make me wonder if some of this blame should come to the person that came into the dog’s house; yes his house. At that point a decision could be made to enter or not and if you decide to then should there be some blame? I’ve went to friends house and seen their dogs were mean dogs (I think how they are raised) and I choose to not go in because I saw the risk. I know this is a bit controversial, but I do feel it is the dogs house and people entering need to understand that. Also responsibility falls on the owner too for not putting this dog away, but I still see less blame on the dog.

It is sad the person got killed, but to a dog they do not really know the difference. Fold’s (JJ’s) dog on this board bit me at a CSC party. Him and I were wrestling and his dog bit me….yet I really did not blame the dog; I actually got more mad at JJ because he needs to be the one to make the decision if his dog can be ok with a party of people and if he knows his dog is that protective he should have realized it may have seen the situation wrong.

I am not for segregating a certain breed because as I first said, I think they are like people and some are just raised bad or not wired correctly and has less to do with the breed (other than some are capable of more damage). It is getting more common the more people buy “full breeds” because of inbreeding over the years. The best bet nowadays is to get a Mutt because they tend to have less problems. And I know I have a Bulldog, but I doubt I’d get another one because of the medical issues they have (from inbreeding over years and stupid dog shows) mine was rescued and that is why I have it now

Also I feel the Pitbull appeals to the wrong crowd and they end up with crappy owners that breed them to fight or leave them on a short chain most of their lives. I grew up with friends like this that fought Pitbulls and they were just not good people overall. I never once heard of anyone getting a “poodle” (which I believe is the #1 bitter) getting one to fight…..99% of time it is the Pitbull that gets pulled in for this horrible life and I see it more a bad owners than a bad dog.

Everything you have said here is true. Even it being on the owner to make sure the dog and people around are safe.

My oldest pit had something happen to him when I first moved to Colorado. My neighbor says he was hit by car after getting out. (Thanks to the fucking whore I was dating at the time not listening to me about not leaving him out).

Anyways he got real dog aversive after that. I took him to one meeting and that didn't go well. There wasn't a fight but it was my first sign. After a camping trip where he almost got a hold of another dog I ended his outings. I left him in Nevada with safe acre to run out his days. Six foot dense with a hotwire.

It sucked but only for me. He doesn't care. Introducing him to my middle dog was a real ordeal. It took almost eight months of working with the two every day to get them to be okay. All because of my oldest.

Now I have a third and they all get along great. I have destroyed all aggressive behaviour including food. They all eat at the same time and from the same bowls. They play with the same toys. They run the same yard.

The breed is by far the most loyal and loving dogs I have ever come across. They take a more work and dedication than most dogs but with anything with it it doesnt come easy.

The part I love the most when people blame dogs for all these things there is one factor always left out. Humans.

[~Barn~]

I just like winding you up Townie. Like my other toys.

[birchyboy]

I had a pit bull for 14 years and he was the best dog ever. I don't trust my American Eskimo nearly as much. Birch (the pit) would let you know if he didn't like you. The Esky waits until your back is turned to let you know.

[#1Townie]

I just like winding you up Townie. Like my other toys.

Hahahaha your winding me up? Because I used some bad words? Really?

I like how your attempt at winding me up is some web designer on meds who is flat out bat shit crazy.


No bro you just have no argument left because the truth is out there taking over and the sheep like you are finding themselves left wanting.

But its okay barney I love you and you love me. Its just our family. Blaaahahahaha.

[bulldog]

Everything you have said here is true. Even it being on the owner to make sure the dog and people around are safe.

My oldest pit had something happen to him when I first moved to Colorado. My neighbor says he was hit by car after getting out. (Thanks to the fucking whore I was dating at the time not listening to me about not leaving him out).

Anyways he got real dog aversive after that. I took him to one meeting and that didn't go well. There wasn't a fight but it was my first sign. After a camping trip where he almost got a hold of another dog I ended his outings. I left him in Nevada with safe acre to run out his days. Six foot dense with a hotwire.

It sucked but only for me. He doesn't care. Introducing him to my middle dog was a real ordeal. It took almost eight months of working with the two every day to get them to be okay. All because of my oldest.

Now I have a third and they all get along great. I have destroyed all aggressive behaviour including food. They all eat at the same time and from the same bowls. They play with the same toys. They run the same yard.

The breed is by far the most loyal and loving dogs I have ever come across. They take a more work and dedication than most dogs but with anything with it it doesnt come easy.

The part I love the most when people blame dogs for all these things there is one factor always left out. Humans.

Yeah I cannot take my Bulldog to dog parks because it always wants to be the dominant dog; he is no way like this to humans and loves them and wants attention. Yet when I go to the dog park he was always trying to hump the other dogs (sign they want dominance as he has no nuts). The moment a dog did not show him dominance he would start a fight with it. So my answer was to not take him to dog parks where I risked him causing damage to another dog or himself ( I now try to socialize him with dog owners I know that are as tough as him). Sucks, but I couldn’t blame the dog because unfortunately being a “pack animal” is in their DNA and they react to dominance and Bulldogs just tend to be that way. If my dog attacked another dog I would man up and say we were at fault because I was the one that chose to take him there; people need to take more responsibility for their actions instead of blaming the dog or breed.

Heck my terrier hates the mail man and it drives my wife crazy. I tell her “look, that dog thinks he is protecting our house and has no concept that they are bringing us mail and are ok; they see a threat to their owner and react”. Yet saying that, it is MY responsibility to make sure the dog does not get out to get that mailman. If he did get out I would not blame the dog, I would blame myself…..

[#1Townie]

Yeah I cannot take my Bulldog to dog parks because it always wants to be the dominant dog; he is no way like this to humans and loves them and wants attention. Yet when I go to the dog park he was always trying to hump the other dogs (sign they want dominance as he has no nuts). The moment a dog did not show him dominance he would start a fight with it. So my answer was to not take him to dog parks where I risked him causing damage to another dog or himself ( I now try to socialize him with dog owners I know that are as tough as him). Sucks, but I couldn’t blame the dog because unfortunately being a “pack animal” is in their DNA and they react to dominance and Bulldogs just tend to be that way. If my dog attacked another dog I would man up and say we were at fault because I was the one that chose to take him there; people need to take more responsibility for their actions instead of blaming the dog or breed.

Heck my terrier hates the mail man and it drives my wife crazy. I tell her “look, that dog thinks he is protecting our house and has no concept that they are bringing us mail and are ok; they see a threat to their owner and react”. Yet saying that, it is MY responsibility to make sure the dog does not get out to get that mailman. If he did get out I would not blame the dog, I would blame myself…..

Hahahaha enjoy.

http://textfromdog.tumblr.com/

[Captain Obvious]

It is sad the person got killed, but to a dog they do not really know the difference. Fold’s (JJ’s) dog on this board bit me at a CSC party. Him and I were wrestling and his dog bit me….yet I really did not blame the dog;

I was thinking about it, how does a dog know that the guy is giving CPR, or other first aid, to its owner vs attacking? Besides Lassie, who apparently set up everyone for expectations on animals communicating with owners, the reality is a good dog is going to protect its owner and probably not understand the distinction. It sucks for the guy who died, and it is a tragedy, but..... Breed aside.

I had a terrier who bit a guy. But the guy was acting aggressively to the dog (playing in his mind), teasing it, and then play wrestling with my GF (who my dog LOVED). So after that, the terrier split the guy's lip. To protect. Except 1 clueless chick at the party, everyone agreed it was pretty clear he was lucky. Could I have been sued?, yes, could he have won? I say not likely, but who knows. I wasn't there else I would have put a stop to those shenanigans quickly. Being attuned to your dog's behavior is important. And many (not all, but a lot) dog on human attacks could be prevented if the owner was actually attentive and in tune with their dog, the dog's behavior and being a responsible owner of the animal. I've also had to put a dog down as I just didn't think I could curb its aggressive behavior.