How do we save PMP?

[aspenbum]

I figured I would start a place for us to discuss the future of PMP. The track day riders, road racers, and drag racers need to step up if we want this awesome track to survive. I know that we can all come together to make help make suggestions for constructive improvements to the operations, safety, staffing, and protocols of the PMP facilities in order to gain the support of the Colorado Sportbike Community.

IMO Judy has too much on her plate for one person to handle effectively, efficiently, safely, and productively. She doesn't have support like Glenn does at HPR and we all know what happens when even a professional level facility looses support i.e. PPIR. I think if we can help her do some of the navigating she can do more of the piloting.

So where do we start? Prioritize. What is most important to you? What is most important to the track? What solution can we come up with that meets both interests in the middle?

Pueblo was my first track that I ever rode on. I drove from Aspen on a Friday after work and tried to do a couple of drag passes before the evening ended before a Saturday track day. I made it there with 45 min left and unpacked all of my stuff and went to tech and was denied. I returned to my truck to find my wallet and other stuff had been stolen out of my truck. I was hungry, tired, had no money, and still had not rode my first ever track prepped bike. I decided to get some sleep and laid down in the back of my Jimmy thinking it was ok to stay at the track. Well a little while later, I was awoken by Judy and got yelled at for riding in the pits without signing a waver (no one was at the gate and tech girl didn't ask for a wristband or a signature), was told I wasn't allowed on the property, was also told that she was going to call Mark Schellenger (who was running the next day's event) and tell him that I wasn't allowed to participate, and I got kicked out, had to pack up my pit and go sleep in my Jimmy on the other side of the gate. Which I did, without remark, thinking I was in the wrong and praying that I was going to be allowed to ride the next day. I did ride the next day, and I learned an extremely large amount of information and was hooked on track riding for the rest of my life, regardless of the horrible experience that I went through to get there.

I continue to ride at Pueblo every chance I can afford to make, because I love the track, even turn 10. Could my experience be better when I go to Pueblo, absolutely. Could it be worse, absolutely. Is it going to change overnight, no; but it has changed, for the better. Let's help continue the change in the right direction.

I think it would be good to start with everyone's opinions on what is good and what is bad with PMP as it currently stands. Lets get a good list of topics for discussion and then discuss them individually one by one. Hopefully we can get some input from Judy and/or other members of the PMP so we know what is in the scope of reality when it comes to improvements. Maybe this is going to work, maybe not, but at least I tried.


The Good:
Track days are priced low and offer 2for1 specials
Track surface is superior when dry
Local amenities provide for excellent accomodation for overnight trips
Best accommodation for spectators to view the entire track

The Bad:
Understaffed for a safe track day and/or race day - corner workers, crash crew, concessions
No medic on site
No mandatory riders meetings that explain track safety, procedures, and layout.
Those prickly things that stick in everything
No Shade
Limited power hookup
Security is lack

My Priorities:
1. Safety
2. Ability to operate a secure, comfortable, & powerful pit area
3. Event scheduling
4. Track logistics
5. Price of event
6. Food at the track
7. Sleeping accommodations

My ideas for improvement:
1. Always staff an ambulance for any motorsports event. Period. No questions, no excuses. I don't feel safe enough without it. I never will. This is non-negotiable with me. I will not ride without it just like I wont ride without a helmet. For me, asking someone to do that is like telling them its okay to ride without a helmet or proper gear. It is a blatantly disregard for human life and the safety of all individuals. I don't care if the fire house tells you it is only 6 mins away, what if there is a fire!? I will only accept immediate response from a certified and trained ON SITE First Responder and nothing else.

2. I've never had a riders meeting at any non-MRA event at PMP. The last time I rode there, two riders blew turn 1 and were attempting to re-enter the track counter direction as I was coming down the straight full speed in 6th gear on my 750. If I wasn't an experienced rider and that was my first time, that could have turned into an extremely serious if not deadly crash. Imagine what would have happened if that happened and no medic was on site and you have 3 seriously injured riders. All of which could have been prevented with a simple 10 min meeting explaining the proper protocol for on track riding, and if there were trained corner crew.

3. Always staff corner crew that are trained on flagging and use the flags appropriately as well as a crash cart. I remember the first time I ran off at PMP was turn 4. Not fun. Especially because there was no one there to help me pick up my bike, which wouldn't re-start due to a broken start switch. So I had to push it back to the pits from the most northern part of the property. Not fun. I remember Hollywood had the same issue where his bike died at the end of the straight two different times and had to push his bike back to the pits both times.

4. Clean up the pits. I know I can't bring my dogs to PMP because those hog's heads (the prickly things that are everywhere) get into their pads and. And I'm always getting them in my tires which then go into my hands and yeah they blow. Get a leaf blower and clean up the pits please. Then get some weed killer and kill whatever those things are. Then get some more weed killer and kill them again and again.

5. Install more power options. I know this takes more than a bottle of electricity but seriously make a plan to run some lines and install some permanent 30A and 50A fixtures. This will attract a large amount of the money spenders who can afford the big rigs that require these hookups.

6. At least have a vending machine for the days you don't staff a concession stand. But please at least be open from 11-2 with hot dogs, chips, and waters.

7. Let people stay the night inside the gate. Have them sign a wavier, put it on the website that its okay, or if not make a sign at the gate that explains the policy. This will encourage the mountain folks to come more often if they know they can at least stay there if they want to show up the night before or let them know that they need to make hotel accommodations. Some information is better than none.

[Radek]

it would be nice if they moved track to Denver area . I never been there .I like PPIR ,but look where it is .Its a joke .Look at Miller park .Great track layout but there is something in pile of wood

[Radek]

it would be nice if they moved track to Denver area . I never been there .I like PPIR ,but look where it is .Its a joke .Look at Miller park .Great track layout but there is something in pile of wood.

If track like PPIR was standing next to Thunder Valley on I-70 ,it could be much interesting to public not just club racing.So when public don't care for this area in this area then it will evolve in club only but not national venue.
You either adjust to those conditions or go to war against those who don't support racing at all .

[Radek]

I wouldn't ride Pueblo for free.

[bulldog]

Great post
Wish I knew more about PMP to comment…..

P.S.More replies! Didn't a bunch of people just complain that there is not enough "sportbike"talk! Well here we go….a good start for a good cause! Yes, I see a few (ok one person replied so far in two days), but we need more opinions as I know a lot of you have at least seen the track

[Kim-n-Dean]

... I decided to get some sleep and laid down in the back of my Jimmy thinking it was ok to stay at the track.

We've brought our RV and boat to PMP and camped at the track. Get there Friday night, go to Pueblo reservoir Saturday and do a track day Sunday. We've camped there for every track day we've attended. Why are you not allowed to stay at the track anymore?

Well a little while later, I was awoken by Judy and got yelled at for riding in the pits without signing a waver (no one was at the gate and tech girl didn't ask for a wristband or a signature), was told I wasn't allowed on the property, was also told that she was going to call Mark Schellenger (who was running the next day's event) and tell him that I wasn't allowed to participate, and I got kicked out, had to pack up my pit and go sleep in my Jimmy on the other side of the gate.

Wow!! That sounds pretty rude!! We're you acting a fool? If not, why the bitch session? Way to make people want to spend money at your track...

[Drano]

I like the thought you put into your post. I will say this, of the seven points you outlined, only one of them involves little to no expense from the track management, #7. For PMP to be saved, it will require serious investment from people that have the money and are willing to spend that money improving facilities, services, accommodations, and marketing.

Some suggestions I have to save PMP:
1) Petition the local government (who own the land) to subsidize the expenses necessary to improve the facility.
2) Begin a fundraising campaign like gofundme to procure the funds needed and donate them to PMP. This one would also require establishing an awareness campaign and hope that it generates enough interest from the public to be effective
3) Contact Judy and ask if you could create a volunteer force to provide a few of the services that are currently lacking.
4) Find a way to seek out investors who would be willing to partner with Judy and ease the financial burden needed to run/improve PMP.

In the case of PMP, the idiom "It takes money to make money" is wholly relevant. They are in the goods and services industry. While geographically they have no close competition, they are still going to be compared to the goods and services provided elsewhere, namely HPR. If PMP wants to compete with HPR, they have to offer similar amenities. They may actually have to go above and beyond to draw people in, because PMP is at a disadvantage in terms of customer base. HPR can pull from the Denver Metropolitan area (~2.7 Million people), but PMP basically has Pueblo (~110,000) and Colorado Springs (~440,000). There has to be an incentive for Denver customers to drive the greater distance to visit PMP. They're not going to to that if they already have something better in their own backyard.

In the other thread discussing PMP, it was argued that the track could be saved if people would go there and ride it, then Judy would have the money to provide those services. To me, it seems like those people are putting the cart before the horse. It's like saying that you love a restaurant that serves terrible food, and doesn't have many repeat customers other than a few regulars. In order to prevent the restaurant from going out of business, the solution being offered is that people should spend their money on terrible food until the owners can afford to hire a trained chef with proper cooking appliances. It just doesn't work that way, and it isn't the fault of the customers.

[madvlad]

I honestly don't see PMP being saved, these issues have been talked about for years and they either remain the same or get worse. I'd never ride Pueblo.

[Spooph]

I've never been to PMP, because I've always perceived it as being really far away. Turns out it's only 2hrs from where I live... Might have to make it down there this summer for an open lapping day. Gas is cheaper than HPR's track day fees, even with a punch pass... Organize an event and let's get some people down there. Motorsports are on the decline for sure as it's expensive. All the medical services make it even more expensive, and Pueblo has a reputation for being unsafe. That's not gonna jive with the new, typically scaredy-cat rider of today.

[tecknojoe]

No Ambulance, no riding. period. 6 minutes is too long of a response time, and I highly doubt the kids running the corners will make the call immediately. 1, 2, and 3 from AspenBum's comment.

I'm not going to bitch about a 2 hour drive, I've driven 5 times as far for a track day

[big_sur]

I think they made the wrong move with their race series. They're not going to compete with MRA and racing is too intimidating for people to pick it up as a first-time-to-the-track experience.

I think they'd be a lot better off if they invested their efforts in standing up a real track day program that has some time on the weekends. MRA has one weekend track day and there are a lot of people out there (like me) that A. don't want to take off work for track days and B. don't want to be completely liable for crashing an expensive street bike (track days are covered by my insurance, competition\racing\timed events are not).

Safety is obviously the first issue that needs to be addressed, but after that, I think they'd do well to set up an east-coast style scheme where they give free track time to coaches who in turn spend a few sessions in the morning teaching a beginner class and then just lap around giving advice when asked and maintaining safety on the track for the rest of the day. It requires no capital outlay and getting new people to the track is the only way to build volume and revenue. I think most people are intimidated by the concept of going to the track but if you stand up a couple hour class to go over the basics so they are more comfortable, don't do something dumb, and provide a little hand holding through that first day, they're going to get hooked. Another thing that seems to work well back east is giving a free "session" at lunch to track noobs with relaxed equipment requirements. It's basically a few parade laps, but it gets people out there and eases them into it. People just need more structure than what they have down there. I mean, can you imagine, never having been to a track day before, showing up to Pueblo and them saying, "have at it." People need more structure than that to get into something new.

I think ultimately we all feel bad for them, but it's just kind of poorly managed and I don't think they have a clear\reasonable business plan to move forward.

[Snazzy]

The negative comments here (one coming from someone who does like 2 track days a year lol) are really sad and annoying.... let me explain:

It doesn't matter WHO is running the track, don't have enough money then you don't have enough money. Barely anyone even comes out for the MRA events, yet there is an ambulance there, so what's the excuse?
There was a full track day for $60 and maybe 10 people showed up, with an ambulance there. So what's the excuse?
You can't help the track because people don't want to "drive so far" The problem is us, the riders, not the person running it.

More riders = improvements
Until then, you can talk all you want but that doesn't make money fall from trees.

I love PMP. It's an awesome track and well worth riding. If it were to go away because of all these fair weather riders, I'd be fairly upset.
/rant

[madvlad]

Then go dump all your money, simple. Not all of us like the track or want to drive that far, period. Would you go somewhere forcefully if you didn't want to? No, let it go.

[Nolan]

Just some stupid questions here....
How long does it take for the ambulance to get from HPR to the nearest basic hospital?
Given a 10 minute response time for PMP then to the nearest basic hospital?

[Drano]

Snazzy, I appreciate your fervor to save PMP, but businesses don't operate on charity. PMP is a business and the riders are its customers. If a business can't keep its doors open because customers don't want to shop there, then the blame for its failure rests squarely on its own shoulders. It isn't the customer's responsibility to line the owners' pockets. The business has to be able to bring something to the table that the customers want/need. If they aren't capable of providing those things, whatever they may be, then the customers will choose to take their business elsewhere and, absent any government intervention (bailouts), economic evolution will take its place: the business will die.

There is a bright side, however, usually when a poorly run business fails, it gets absorbed. In the case of PMP, the land is owned by Pueblo City, so the track won't be going anywhere. It may sit dormant for a while until Pueblo can find another management group to take the lease, but hey, maybe the next group will do a better job running the place by providing better services to the customers, and that would be a good thing.

[Aaron]

Just some stupid questions here....
How long does it take for the ambulance to get from HPR to the nearest basic hospital?
Given a 10 minute response time for PMP then to the nearest basic hospital?

This has been on my mind for some time, I just didn't want to be the one nay-sayer, and I certainly still want an ambulance so I don't want to play devil's advocate.

My problem with HPR is the ambulance crew they use is a very rural crew, they certainly don't have the equipment or personnel experience that the AMR cews that would respond to PMP would have. Plus, at PMP, you also get an ALS Fire Crew with the Dispatch, whereas you don't at HPR. So PMP's response time is about 10 minutes longer, but once on scene, has triple the medical staff, double the equipment, better equipment, and more training/experience.

In Pueblo the time from the track to a hospital is 10-12 minutes. Except that's not a basic hospital, it's the most advanced Level 1 trauma center south of Colorado Springs. You'd need an hour from HPR to get to a similarly equipped hospital.

[Snazzy]

You don't even go to HPR, Damir, so you really wouldn't make a difference at PMP.

Anyways,
My point is, you want medical care on track and more corner workers? We need more than 2 people showing up on a weekend. There is a reason HPR has a 10 person minimum.
Ambulance and corner workers seem to be the biggest issue here.



Excellent point Aaron. I never thought of that, but it's definitely a great side of the ambulance argument.

[aspenbum]

If track like PPIR was standing next to Thunder Valley on I-70 ,it could be much interesting to public not just club racing.So when public don't care for this area in this area then it will evolve in club only but not national venue.
You either adjust to those conditions or go to war against those who don't support racing at all .

First Thunder Valley is on C-470, second the general public does want to go to PMP, for drag racing not road racing. This is the goal of RMRS is to gain more interest in the road racing aspect of the motorsports fans that do come there.

We've brought our RV and boat to PMP and camped at the track. Get there Friday night, go to Pueblo reservoir Saturday and do a track day Sunday. We've camped there for every track day we've attended. Why are you not allowed to stay at the track anymore?

Wow!! That sounds pretty rude!! We're you acting a fool? If not, why the bitch session? Way to make people want to spend money at your track...

I was not acting a fool, I only rode my bike to tech and back. This was before Judy was running the show, she was only running the drag racing event at the time. I believe now you can stay there, but my point is there is no policy or rules on the website or at the track.

I like the thought you put into your post. I will say this, of the seven points you outlined, only one of them involves little to no expense from the track management, #7. For PMP to be saved, it will require serious investment from people that have the money and are willing to spend that money improving facilities, services, accommodations, and marketing.

Some suggestions I have to save PMP:
1) Petition the local government (who own the land) to subsidize the expenses necessary to improve the facility.
2) Begin a fundraising campaign like gofundme to procure the funds needed and donate them to PMP. This one would also require establishing an awareness campaign and hope that it generates enough interest from the public to be effective
3) Contact Judy and ask if you could create a volunteer force to provide a few of the services that are currently lacking.
4) Find a way to seek out investors who would be willing to partner with Judy and ease the financial burden needed to run/improve PMP.

In the case of PMP, the idiom "It takes money to make money" is wholly relevant. They are in the goods and services industry. While geographically they have no close competition, they are still going to be compared to the goods and services provided elsewhere, namely HPR. If PMP wants to compete with HPR, they have to offer similar amenities. They may actually have to go above and beyond to draw people in, because PMP is at a disadvantage in terms of customer base. HPR can pull from the Denver Metropolitan area (~2.7 Million people), but PMP basically has Pueblo (~110,000) and Colorado Springs (~440,000). There has to be an incentive for Denver customers to drive the greater distance to visit PMP. They're not going to to that if they already have something better in their own backyard.

In the other thread discussing PMP, it was argued that the track could be saved if people would go there and ride it, then Judy would have the money to provide those services. To me, it seems like those people are putting the cart before the horse. It's like saying that you love a restaurant that serves terrible food, and doesn't have many repeat customers other than a few regulars. In order to prevent the restaurant from going out of business, the solution being offered is that people should spend their money on terrible food until the owners can afford to hire a trained chef with proper cooking appliances. It just doesn't work that way, and it isn't the fault of the customers.

These are some good ideas, some of which I hope Judy is exploring. I would point out that if you are going to take over the lease of a race track, you should have your financial planning in alignment before you are allowed to sign that lease. So where is the alignment for the road racing? Have you ever been to a Friday night drag at PMP? There are cute girls in skirts greeting the people at the gate, multiple consessions, a track announcer, full drag crew, tech inspection, the whole nine. My point being, the funds have been mis-appropriated, mis-managed, mis-handled call it whatever you want.

I would gladly pay the same amount of money that Glenn charges to ride at PMP if it was ran the same way as HPR or PPIR when they host track days. Maybe we need to start a track day buisness and rent the track out and run it the right way to show people how fun it can be. Then with the business generated it can once again flourish on its own.

I think they made the wrong move with their race series. They're not going to compete with MRA and racing is too intimidating for people to pick it up as a first-time-to-the-track experience.

I think they'd be a lot better off if they invested their efforts in standing up a real track day program that has some time on the weekends. MRA has one weekend track day and there are a lot of people out there (like me) that A. don't want to take off work for track days and B. don't want to be completely liable for crashing an expensive street bike (track days are covered by my insurance, competition\racing\timed events are not).

Safety is obviously the first issue that needs to be addressed, but after that, I think they'd do well to set up an east-coast style scheme where they give free track time to coaches who in turn spend a few sessions in the morning teaching a beginner class and then just lap around giving advice when asked and maintaining safety on the track for the rest of the day. It requires no capital outlay and getting new people to the track is the only way to build volume and revenue. I think most people are intimidated by the concept of going to the track but if you stand up a couple hour class to go over the basics so they are more comfortable, don't do something dumb, and provide a little hand holding through that first day, they're going to get hooked. Another thing that seems to work well back east is giving a free "session" at lunch to track noobs with relaxed equipment requirements. It's basically a few parade laps, but it gets people out there and eases them into it. People just need more structure than what they have down there. I mean, can you imagine, never having been to a track day before, showing up to Pueblo and them saying, "have at it." People need more structure than that to get into something new.

I think ultimately we all feel bad for them, but it's just kind of poorly managed and I don't think they have a clear\reasonable business plan to move forward.

I think this is a perfect plan actually

The negative comments here (one coming from someone who does like 2 track days a year lol) are really sad and annoying.... let me explain:

It doesn't matter WHO is running the track, don't have enough money then you don't have enough money. Barely anyone even comes out for the MRA events, yet there is an ambulance there, so what's the excuse?
There was a full track day for $60 and maybe 10 people showed up, with an ambulance there. So what's the excuse?
You can't help the track because people don't want to "drive so far" The problem is us, the riders, not the person running it.

More riders = improvements
Until then, you can talk all you want but that doesn't make money fall from trees.

I love PMP. It's an awesome track and well worth riding. If it were to go away because of all these fair weather riders, I'd be fairly upset.
/rant

I was at that track day, and the bus was only there from 11-2. I went and was willing to ride without one just because it was the first day my bike was actually running. However, it wasn't advertised very well and it isn't all going to fall into place on the very first track day that she has. IT DID start to spread the word that she is going to have the bus there for the RMRS series as long as we commit to going.

Just some stupid questions here....
How long does it take for the ambulance to get from HPR to the nearest basic hospital?
Given a 10 minute response time for PMP then to the nearest basic hospital?

Probably 1 hour for HPR and 30 min for PMP. But let me ask you this, if you crash on your bike, cut your leg open and your femoral artery is cut, do you really want to wait 10 min for the bus to show up or would you rather have that bus on site ready to apply immediate response? Truth is you'd be dead if they weren't there in 10 min and the bleeding was under control.

Snazzy, I appreciate your fervor to save PMP, but businesses don't operate on charity. PMP is a business and the riders are its customers. If a business can't keep its doors open because customers don't want to shop there, then the blame for its failure rests squarely on its own shoulders. It isn't the customer's responsibility to line the owners' pockets. The business has to be able to bring something to the table that the customers want/need. If they aren't capable of providing those things, whatever they may be, then the customers will choose to take their business elsewhere and, absent any government intervention (bailouts), economic evolution will take its place: the business will die.

There is a bright side, however, usually when a poorly run business fails, it gets absorbed. In the case of PMP, the land is owned by Pueblo City, so the track won't be going anywhere. It may sit dormant for a while until Pueblo can find another management group to take the lease, but hey, maybe the next group will do a better job running the place by providing better services to the customers, and that would be a good thing.

I truely don't want to see this track go dormate. I really do love riding there but it is up to us to help the customers stay interested if we want to keep riding there. Ultimately it's the business responsiblity to attract customers but most business gain more from word of mouth through their customer base then through local advertising- which there isn't much of. Why not try do keep what we have while we have it available?

[aspenbum]

You don't even go to HPR, Damir, so you really wouldn't make a difference at PMP.

Anyways,
My point is, you want medical care on track and more corner workers? We need more than 2 people showing up on a weekend. There is a reason HPR has a 10 person minimum.
Ambulance and corner workers seem to be the biggest issue here.

HPR only mandates 10 people min for winter because there isn't a full schedule of events over the winter to pay for the low show track days. The problem with PMP is that all of the revenue generated throughout the entire summer season isn't spent on the road racing track days. Its spent to promote and provide for the drag nights. The reason why HPR can afford the bus and the staff is because they appropriate the funds to do so by filling their schedule with events for the entire summer season and use the profits efficiently. The winter is not busy thus, mandating a minimum sign up.

[Drama2]

With this being said PMP is having a 2 for 1 on 7 June.

[Okrapp]

I think it's great that folks are actively seeking improvements to the Pueblo track services. If any consensus comes for ways to attract additional riders by improving these, count me in to assist. I'll be there at the track anyway. For me, it's close and great. I'm looking to hit HPR too at some point in the near future for a super-street or track day too. Why? Because it sounds like a cool track to go ride and it shouldn't be a competitive thing of only riding one vs the other. I'll do 2hr rather than 45min now and then. I think we should be glad there's options. The sport should be supported. If you don't personally want to ride there for one or more reasons, okay. But, let's not be against the existence of a place where others are able to get into this experience. Imagine someone who had only ever ridden COTA or any of the GP circuit tracks looking at HPR and not caring if it came or went?

For any significantly expensive improvement of desired services preempting arrival of more riders, petitioning of Pueblo governing officials with guidance/coordination of track management would likely be the best route for any concerned group of persons. Again this comes back to who has $.

For initial promotion for the location, tracks in general, or hell anyone who wants to ride any type of street-going bike well, send them to the Sunset clinics. The price is going up to $100 this year. But, for anyone wanting curriculum from one of the most sought after schools anywhere, that's affordable. I didn't know average mortals could go to track days for less than CEO incomes and wouldn't have had inclination/confidence to try before that. I've seen a few old threads here from old respected members lauding the course. Dates for this year are on the PMP calender or sunsetriderclinic has one of those facebook things. You'll need a street legal ride and don't need full leathers.

For the track circuit itself when talking to people there, I haven't heard any of the MRA or more-frequently-to-HPR folks say anything about the track itself being unsafe or anything other than a blast. Yeah, you need to be disciplined on turn 10, but you knew that going in - you can literally see that drag rubber from space.

For EMS on site concerns, two of the three race series events so far had significant number of registrants and EMS was there both times. If you want to race and it doesn't interfere with plans elsewhere, sign up and you get your ambulance. I don't think this is fixed for track days in the near future but, for the race series there are corner workers and EMTs. And if you're already MRA, you already have a motorsportreg.com account and just click, done.

Some have suggested the track or race series is competing with HPR/MRA. No. That's just silly and just, no. It's just another option based on geography/finances or you don't have an event up there on that date.


No matter what happens, I'm still riding PMP as long as I'm able and we still can.

[Jmetz]

You don't even go to HPR, Damir, so you really wouldn't make a difference at PMP.

Probably not the best way to garner support.

[Aaron]

For those saying they will not go to PMP. That's fine, but there's no need to post. There's only 2 truly valid reasons, and that's lack of medical, and the first part of the front stretch being sketch. For medical, that's what we're trying to change, so help us instead of bitching. Call Judy, tell her you'd sign up if she'll sign AMR. As for the front stretch, ya, there's one corner you can't take 100% at. Aim for the center on exit, and you're fine. Now if you simply just don't like the track, that's fine, but you're no help, so stay out.

The fact that PMP includes a 1/4 mile drag track is the only reason we still have a PMP, so we need to respect the dual purpose.

We can get PMP to the level it needs to be. Look at the drag track. It can't hold a candle to Bandi, and yet it's packed every Friday. People bring their freaking Luminas there to race. So advertise for them. I didn't know what a track day was until enough of you guys pressured me into trying it, now I can't get enough of it. So tell your friends at work who talk about their new exhaust on their car, tell the guys who ask if you want to race, and bring your friends. Then every time you go, tell Judy she needs an ambulance.

As for the cutting your artery example, I realize it's just an example, not arguing that, but that is an easy injury to live through with the most basic of medical care. Stop the bleeding with a tourniquet, and get to a trauma center for surgery.

[WolFeYeZ]

Probably 1 hour for HPR and 30 min for PMP. But let me ask you this, if you crash on your bike, cut your leg open and your femoral artery is cut, do you really want to wait 10 min for the bus to show up or would you rather have that bus on site ready to apply immediate response? Truth is you'd be dead if they weren't there in 10 min and the bleeding was under control.

The nearest good hospital is 6 miles or 13 minute drive from PMP, including the access road. In an ambulance, probably under 10 minutes. In some circumstances, I could see that saving your life compared to HPR.

As for solving the ambulance issue, it could be a good idea for PMP to hire an EMT, a driver and buy an ambulance. Hell, the driver could even flag a corner where the ambulance is.