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Thread: How do we save PMP?

  1. #49
    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by UHATEIT View Post
    Anyone concerned about serious injuries or the need for an ambulance should just ride within their limits and they should have any issues having a crash that would warrant an ambulance to show up.
    Completely disagree with this
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  2. #50
    Senior Member WolFeYeZ's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    So when you hand Judy your $150 what are you are paying for? What makes it a safer environment? If it's only for clear pavement I'd say you're getting ripped off. You still have traffic, it's just going in the same direction. Hell, with a full tank of gas I can ride out into the mountains and find plenty of clear pavement, have the time of my life, encounter less traffic than you will during the course of your lapping day, ride a lot safer than you are, have the same amount of ambulances on hand (0), and I didn't pay $150 for it. Will I encounter traffic to and from my street ride? Yes, and unless you live next door to the track, so will you.
    You pay for the 3 year old repave, no cars, no opposing traffic and no objects to slam into when you fall off. Falling off an sliding into the dirt is much safer than falling off and sliding off a clif, or into a metal guard-rail. You also pay so that you don't end up with a 12 point ticket, losing your licence, and $$$. You pay so you know what is going to be around the next bend, not a boulder or a car or a pothole, but the same corner you passed less than 2 minutes before. You pay for flaggers to let you know when something happens to be on the track. You do get a lot for your $150, or $75....

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  3. #51
    Junior Member RichSC's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by UHATEIT View Post
    Anyone concerned about serious injuries or the need for an ambulance should just ride within their limits and they should have any issues having a crash that would warrant an ambulance to show up.
    Quote Originally Posted by tecknojoe View Post
    Completely disagree with this
    +1. The whole point of the track is to have a safer, more controlled environment. Shit happens, and often times it's out of your hands. Now I'm not saying you need to go out and ride over your head, but the chance of serious injury is still present even while staying within your limits.

    I'm new to the state and all of these tracks, and after coming from Hawaii where we have nothing for motorsports venues, I'm pretty happy to have the 3 here in state. Distance doesn't bother me at all, my only concern is some of the other posts I've read from people that have been about safety issues. The ambulance, definitely something I think should be there for events. Riders meeting, why are those not mandatory for all events? That is a very important part that takes what, 15-20 minutes, and would be beneficial to everyone, especially if there are people there that have never been.

    I will be there for the MRA round in June, and would like to make it down there for a lapping day at some point this season to see how things are.
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  4. #52
    Senior Member UHATEIT's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    I was waiting to get shit for my comment. Sure enough! I mean nothing negative by saying it. What I am saying is that for me as a FIRST TIMER on my first ever track session I felt in no way scared that I would crash hard enough to need an ambulance. Thats not saying it couldn't happen. But I rode within my limits and felt perfectly safe at this PMP track. I would ride it again without the worry of whether or not there was an ambulance there. Still things can happen, but that would not be a deterrant for me not to go to this place again.
    Last edited by UHATEIT; Thu May 21st, 2015 at 04:15 PM.
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  5. #53
    Senior Member sag's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    i think it was an Erico day i did at hpr with no corner workers or bus. dont crash ya sallys!


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  6. #54
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by WolFeYeZ View Post
    You pay for the 3 year old repave, no cars, no opposing traffic and no objects to slam into when you fall off. Falling off an sliding into the dirt is much safer than falling off and sliding off a clif, or into a metal guard-rail. You also pay so that you don't end up with a 12 point ticket, losing your licence, and $$$. You pay so you know what is going to be around the next bend, not a boulder or a car or a pothole, but the same corner you passed less than 2 minutes before. You pay for flaggers to let you know when something happens to be on the track. You do get a lot for your $150, or $75....
    I'm sure you do, but make no mistake, you are paying $150 for the assurance of safety. That assurance is provided to you at the agreed upon price by the owners of the facility. Assurances aside, the only guarantee of a track day is that you won't get a ticket. I can guarantee I don't get a ticket on the street too, it's called, "Don't Speed". But I digress, in my opinion $150 is a lot of money. Is it cheaper than HPR? That depends on what you are willing to sacrifice. To me, my safety is of tantamount concern. I don't wear a helmet and full gear with armor because it looks cool. I don't ride crazy on the street for the same reason. At a track, however, I'm spending money to ride faster than I could legally do on the street. Why? Because riding fast is fun! However, I'm simply unwilling to sacrifice an aspect of my safety that weighs heavily on my mind: the ability for EMS to get to me promptly should I crash and get hurt. Others don't see it as an issue, and hey, it's their life to lose. I can't say I understand it, but it's their choice to make. I, however, won't be pressured to make compromises in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by WolFeYeZ View Post
    Have you ridden PMP Drano?
    No, I haven't, for obvious reasons. But why does it matter if I have or have not? As a potential customer I have the right to evaluate whether it makes sound financial sense to spend $150 at a facility intended to provide a safe environment and to offer my criticisms regarding any aspect I find to be lacking, or questionable. It's my money and my safety at stake.

    I could just as easily ask: Have you ever crashed a motorcycle? Did you nearly die? Did you spend several weeks in a hospital? If your answer is, "no" then I could argue that you simply don't understand how valuable it is to have rapid first response. It will factor into any decision that involves an increased risk to safety, which, make no mistake, increases exponentially as speeds get higher. Since I'll be riding faster than I would on the street, I want EMS response to be faster as well.
    Last edited by Drano; Thu May 21st, 2015 at 04:33 PM.

  7. #55
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    It's okay man, must be nice to have the money and time to be at every track day possible lol, some of us aren't as lucky. Even with all that and I'm still faster on a slow ass 03 R6 than most novices out there including canyon king on his 1k gixxer aka BMW killer, funny how that works... Imagine if I had seat time *starts pondering*... I'm not worthy .... those that know me know the reason why I don't have money to put at the track and it's called supporting my family.
    When were you faster than the BMW killer?
    Anyways, I digress....

    As for shade, just wait till the swarm of moths comes. On a serious note, I'd say that is far off into the future and we won't know how far out unless someone can sit down with the owner and look at numbers. Same goes for power, which never seems to be an issue at track days.

    Turn 10 isn't a big deal unless you make it into one. Are you trying to win the track day? If not, then take it easy in that turn and enjoy the other 9.



    Instead of bickering opinions about whether or not you'd ride on the track. Let's all sign up for a day, get 10+ people, and ask Judy if that is enough to afford an ambulance and corner workers. Then everyone can experience how great of a track PMP is while being safe and having fun. From there we have more people on board to help save the track and thus problems can be solved.
    Last edited by Snazzy; Thu May 21st, 2015 at 05:55 PM.
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  8. #56
    Member aspenbum's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezzzzy1 View Post
    PMP is great especially when its you and 3 of your buddies and the whole track is yours to do what you want

    Currently in talks to do a track day with Nick Ienatsch down there if anyones interested in info shoot me a PM.
    I did a track day there with Nick and it was amazing! However, there was no bus on site, and I didn't feel comfortable riding at a fast practice/slow race pace so that I could get a good evaluation from such an amazing teacher. BUT the advice and evaluation that I got helped me to get multiple MRA podiums that year but at the time I was feeling a little ripped off.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcr25 View Post
    I agree about the good old days. Then two people were killed at La Junta. Had there been at a minimum a riders meeting talking about to get on and off the track safely that accident probably never would have happened. An ambulance may have helped but it certainly wouldn't have made things worse.
    This is a huge deal with me. IMO Judy is overwhelmed on her trackdays and doesn't really make the time to sit everyone down and go over the proper instructions. However, at the first RMRS event we did have a riders meeting that went over flags, track on/off, pit, and safety procedures, but only like 6 people showed up and it was raining. I didn't go the last event because im broke, trying to race a full MRA season.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    Yes, there are more risks and obstacles on the street, but that doesn't mean a track is immune from danger, it's just more predictable. The track is a place where you have the opportunity to ride faster than would on the street in a much safer environment, but riders still crash, many times at higher speeds. If a rider loses the front while on the brakes at the end of the main straight at 120 MPH it's likely going to become a bad day. An ambulance might even be needed. But there won't be one, not for 10 - 15 minutes or so.

    So when you hand Judy your $150 what are you are paying for? What makes it a safer environment? If it's only for clear pavement I'd say you're getting ripped off. You still have traffic, it's just going in the same direction. Hell, with a full tank of gas I can ride out into the mountains and find plenty of clear pavement, have the time of my life, encounter less traffic than you will during the course of your lapping day, ride a lot safer than you are, have the same amount of ambulances on hand (0), and I didn't pay $150 for it. Will I encounter traffic to and from my street ride? Yes, and unless you live next door to the track, so will you.

    So how many of you track riders go to the track without accepting the fact that you may crash? I don't know that I would have much confidence in the conditions, the other riders, or myself for that matter, regardless of how safe the track happens to be, because I'm of the firm opinion that disaster can strike at any time. If I'm going to be spending my hard earned money to ride the track, I'm riding it because I'm ensured that I'll be taken care of should the worst happen. PMP won't get a cent of my money until they are able to offer that.
    I always anticipate a crash. But I crash alot it seems. There is a fine line between riding fast and riding too fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    I'm sure you do, but make no mistake, you are paying $150 for the assurance of safety. That assurance is provided to you at the agreed upon price by the owners of the facility. Assurances aside, the only guarantee of a track day is that you won't get a ticket. I can guarantee I don't get a ticket on the street too, it's called, "Don't Speed". But I digress, in my opinion $150 is a lot of money. Is it cheaper than HPR? That depends on what you are willing to sacrifice. To me, my safety is of tantamount concern. I don't wear a helmet and full gear with armor because it looks cool. I don't ride crazy on the street for the same reason. At a track, however, I'm spending money to ride faster than I could legally do on the street. Why? Because riding fast is fun! However, I'm simply unwilling to sacrifice an aspect of my safety that weighs heavily on my mind: the ability for EMS to get to me promptly should I crash and get hurt. Others don't see it as an issue, and hey, it's their life to lose. I can't say I understand it, but it's their choice to make. I, however, won't be pressured to make compromises in that regard.

    No, I haven't, for obvious reasons. But why does it matter if I have or have not? As a potential customer I have the right to evaluate whether it makes sound financial sense to spend $150 at a facility intended to provide a safe environment and to offer my criticisms regarding any aspect I find to be lacking, or questionable. It's my money and my safety at stake.

    I could just as easily ask: Have you ever crashed a motorcycle? Did you nearly die? Did you spend several weeks in a hospital? If your answer is, "no" then I could argue that you simply don't understand how valuable it is to have rapid first response. It will factor into any decision that involves an increased risk to safety, which, make no mistake, increases exponentially as speeds get higher. Since I'll be riding faster than I would on the street, I want EMS response to be faster as well.
    I spent 5 weeks in the Pediatric Trauma Center when I was 10 from a life threatening head injury sustained while riding a dirt bike, with no helmet. I also cut my thumb tip off in my race bike chain. Hence my importance on first response.
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  9. #57
    Member Radek's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    [

    Snazzy texts me and she wants to buy 200 fat tire from me and put it on 600.I told her that its not smart .Then she text me she will buy it for friend .Then next day I text her back and she replied : what tire ???
    So don't really take her seriously....

  10. #58
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radek View Post
    [

    Snazzy texts me and she wants to buy 200 fat tire from me and put it on 600.I told her that its not smart .Then she text me she will buy it for friend .Then next day I text her back and she replied : what tire ???
    So don't really take her seriously....
    Exactly, texted me. Then you messaged me on here and I had no idea who you were. I still have no idea if I'm talking to the same person who was selling a rear tire with his zx10.
    I said I might have a friend interested, they weren't and neither was I cause I have a 600. I messaged someone else with tires I wanted and bought them at the school, that okay with you?
    Last edited by Snazzy; Thu May 21st, 2015 at 06:56 PM.
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  11. #59
    Senior Member Moderator Gramps's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by sag View Post
    i think it was an Erico day i did at hpr with no corner workers or bus. dont crash ya sallys!


    (i kid, i kid)
    Really Those track days are pretty expensive (300 range) for no services. You got to be joking about this.
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  12. #60
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by aspenbum View Post
    I spent 5 weeks in the Pediatric Trauma Center when I was 10 from a life threatening head injury sustained while riding a dirt bike, with no helmet. I also cut my thumb tip off in my race bike chain. Hence my importance on first response.
    I had a low-speed crash (35-40 mph) in 2011 on the street. I didn't hit a guard rail, go off a cliff, or make contact with oncoming traffic. All I hit was the pavement, and I hit hard. I was wearing my helmet, jacket, gauntlet gloves, with jeans and an old pair of combat boots. Even with the amount of gear I was wearing, I suffered a concussion, collapsed lung, pulmonary edema in my other lung, bruised ribs, broken finger, bruised hip, and a grade 5 liver laceration. From hitting the ground, I was in and out of consciousness, suffocating, drowning, and bleeding to death internally as I lay there. I got lucky, the first person to get to me was an off-duty ER nurse at Memorial Hospital in the Springs. She took care of me until EMS arrived. People don't know what a blessing it is to have somebody, right then and there, who knows what to do if things get worse. I do.

  13. #61
    Member Okrapp's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by aspenbum View Post
    This is a huge deal with me. IMO Judy is overwhelmed on her trackdays and doesn't really make the time to sit everyone down and go over the proper instructions. However, at the first RMRS event we did have a riders meeting that went over flags, track on/off, pit, and safety procedures, but only like 6 people showed up and it was raining. I didn't go the last event because im broke, trying to race a full MRA season.
    That day did suck for both weather and turnout. But the rider meetings are continuing to happen as of the next round last weekend. Ray, the person taking some of the weight off Judy by doing these rider meetings/ tech inspections/ writing rule books and some of the other coordinating on the bike side, is experienced in other bike race series from elsewhere and helping to make this an emulation of more professional things. I think you were the one that added a few great other points to that meeting. Thanks for making the thread and, yeah the budget looks like a case of ramen noodles too often if you like the track.



    With the exception of that day when so few showed up, the same Western Ambulance company mentioned by others was there, rider meetings keep happening, corner workers (fewer than many here are used to) are present, and if anyone is out of objections please come run a round or two if you're available. These things don't extend to track days yet but it's a start.

    Not here to argue against anyone who won't come without corner workers or EMS. Not here to say PMP will be as nice as HPR anytime soon if ever. Just saying some of these things are there for RMRS days because they are making an effort and hoping it will draw additional riders.
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  14. #62
    Senior Member Moderator Slo's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    I will be out there, but will be later than I wanted. I went over my budget for a couple of different projects recently so there are a couple more items I need before heading that way.

  15. #63
    Senior Member One-ops's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    If it's still around I'll come run it next year.
    I will be there running a few trackdays this year though.

  16. #64
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    I never seen ambulance on any dirt track standing by but we all sign the death wish deal.

  17. #65

    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Just out of curiosity what other adrenaline type hobbies do you guys have that have a problem with the ambulance not being on site all the time?

    Sking/snowboarding
    Mountain Climbing
    Dirtbiking - mountains or track
    Mountain biking
    ????

    Do you view this activities more or less dangerous than a track day. I would think that they all have there dangers and one could get seriously hurt doing any one of them. I personally would much rather get hurt at the track in pueblo than way out in the woods dirtbiking, sking or mountain biking. Yet people continue to do those activities. I think just some quick instruction when you show up about how to safely enter and exit the track and what to do if you run off would be good and then manage your self for the rest. Its a trackday not a race.

    I see way more people getting hurt riding dirtbikes than I ever have at trackdays. PMP is my favorite track probably because it was my first and its kind of my home track. Probably have done near 100 or more days there between trackdays and racing.
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  18. #66

    Re: How do we save PMP?

    That being said, if you dont want the track to go away then we need to support it. It takes money for it to get better and make improvements and the only way that is going to happen is if people use it and show interest in it getting better. With the type of effort put into getting HPR built I believe pmp could be much better but it takes a lot of effort and someone running it with the vision and drive to make it happen.
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  19. #67
    Gold Member asp_125's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    So here's a question for the old timers. Was there a safety crew at Second Creek during the thursday night track days? I can't recall seeing an ambulance and I definitely did not see any cornerworkers.
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  20. #68
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by asp_125 View Post
    So here's a question for the old timers. Was there a safety crew at Second Creek during the thursday night track days? I can't recall seeing an ambulance and I definitely did not see any cornerworkers.


    We would have to exit the track and go tell Bob someone had crashed if it wasn't seen from the pits.


  21. #69
    Senior Member Moderator Gramps's Avatar
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    That is funny. It was very low budget but fun and cheap.
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  22. #70
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Never ran at 2nd creek but heard all the stories
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  23. #71
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Personally I don't even catch the bus unless there is an ambulance crew waiting.
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  24. #72
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    Re: How do we save PMP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmetz View Post
    Personally I don't even catch the bus unless there is an ambulance crew waiting.
    What that sounds so reckless and unsafe.. How did you ever get to the bus stop without one?

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