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Thread: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

  1. #49
    Senior Member j0ker's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs View Post
    Dumbest thing I've read in a while. Author keeps talking about how 1%'ers "earned these colors, earned these patches, through blood, blah blah".... OHHH REALLY? By playing a year of being someone's beer bitch while you prospected, that makes it "earned"??? ....
    I have personally witnessed 35+ year old 250+ lb men being told to do the stupidest shit as a clubs prospects, just to make it into an MC. Hibs has it right when he calls them beer bitches, cause that is what most of them do. They go get the beer and weed and are basically just little mindless bitches. I do not understand that mentality.

  2. #50
    Senior Member Nolan's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    To me this is no different than watching a couple douchebags argue about the Broncos and Raiders then going to blows.... Or a bunch of monkeys posting up against other monkeys invading territory..... I'm going to go watch national geographic and watch how all the animals act around a watering hole. Shouldn't be much different.

  3. #51
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by j0ker View Post
    I have personally witnessed 35+ year old 250+ lb men being told to do the stupidest shit as a clubs prospects, just to make it into an MC. Hibs has it right when he calls them beer bitches, cause that is what most of them do. They go get the beer and weed and are basically just little mindless bitches. I do not understand that mentality.
    thats a prospect. you are talking about a club that has deep roots. sure as a prospect you go through some shit. you want to just walk into a brotherhood without proving yourself? ever see what happens to a kid who gets a marines tat before basic?

    I remember when this forum went nuts when they found a website in Kansas that used the CSC logo for their forum people went nuts.

    I guess I'm just basically saying I can see why the Mongols are not happy. I can also understand that live their life in a different way. I mean... the whole 1% thing right?

    but really I have no dog in the fight. well.... except I have a lot of distrust for cops. lol.

  4. #52
    Senior Member Hibs's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    I have no doubt 1%'ers do some good things.I have no doubt some cops are bad. But to portray this image, like you've been doing Townie, that somehow outlaw MC are the innocent victim and it's always the cops out to get them, is far from the truth.

    Personally, I'd trust the IO long before I'd trust a Mongol.

  5. #53
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs View Post
    I have no doubt 1%'ers do some good things.I have no doubt some cops are bad. But to portray this image, like you've been doing Townie, that somehow outlaw MC are the innocent victim and it's always the cops out to get them, is far from the truth.

    Personally, I'd trust the IO long before I'd trust a Mongol.
    and I vise versa. cops can be criminals too.

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    Last edited by #1Townie; Sat Feb 6th, 2016 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #54
    Senior Member j0ker's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    thats a prospect. you are talking about a club that has deep roots. sure as a prospect you go through some shit. you want to just walk into a brotherhood without proving yourself? ever see what happens to a kid who gets a marines tat before basic?

    I remember when this forum went nuts when they found a website in Kansas that used the CSC logo for their forum people went nuts.

    I guess I'm just basically saying I can see why the Mongols are not happy. I can also understand that live their life in a different way. I mean... the whole 1% thing right?

    but really I have no dog in the fight. well.... except I have a lot of distrust for cops. lol.
    I understand what a prospect is, but goddamn it is stupid. Grabbing the beer for the crew doesn't prove shit other than you are a little subservient bitch. I also have a lot of distrust of cops. haha.

  7. #55
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by j0ker View Post
    I understand what a prospect is, but goddamn it is stupid. Grabbing the beer for the crew doesn't prove shit other than you are a little subservient bitch. I also have a lot of distrust of cops. haha.
    I truly wonder what the finale report on this is going to say.

  8. #56
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    From reading the book "Under and Alone" I have to say that Townie is stating a lot of truth. This undercover agent that did this biggest bust in 1% history even stated how not all the member's in these clubs are bad people and he even felt really bad when he convicted some of them as he did see a different side than he even anticipated. Sure some are bad, but a lot were just vets that started a club when everyone in society shunned them and many join because that is the only love they really receive.

    This book also talks about the "prospect" aspect and shows what this agent went through to get patched in. Yes some of it is about getting beer, but mainly it is all about building trust and respect more than it is just being a beer waiter. These motorcycle clubs do background checks, surveillance, and much more than most people expect. For this agent to get "patched in" took a lot of manpower and deception to infiltrate the Mongols, so the people that think these are some stupid thugs do not know the full extent of it.
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  9. #57
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    I truly wonder what the finale report on this is going to say.
    Its more or less wrapped up. The investigation has been done and its looking like no one will be charged (which sucks from a lawsuit perspective). The state agrees at this point that it was self defense and there is no one to charge for things happening the way they did.

    Unless something changes, thats how its going to stay.
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  10. #58
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    REMOVED.
    Well I never really meant they were good people, just saying some people get the impression that gang members are stupid people when some are actually pretty smart; I grew up around some gang member leaders (because I was poor and lived where they did) and got to see that different part of life and "street smarts" is a real thing.

    For example I never knew to get into the Mongols you have to complete an application; with SS #, references, past jobs, etc. They hire a private investigator to check the background on a member before they get "patched" in. This book just showed how these "gangs" like Mongols are a lot more advanced than people think and much more than just a bunch of drunks and it took a lot of police manpower to fool them...which took years!

    So same as with the Mafia (another group I have studied in depth), people look at these types like they are dumb, but in reality they can be ran pretty well; sure not all legal of course. I've never liked gangs and always felt they were for people who were mainly cowards that needed backup from others and even though I was pressured my entire life I never joined one. To me it is a a stupid lifestyle that only causes problems. Like you said though the smart ones are uncommon and usually the idiots are the ones causing problems, but there are some top leaders that if they were raised differently they may have been successful business men.

    I guess for me it is hard to put any group into one category as I feel people in general can just be bad so it would be hard for me to say ALL 1% are horrible people.
    Last edited by bulldog; Tue Feb 9th, 2016 at 07:18 AM.
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  11. #59
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Here is a decent article in Fortune that shows how MC Clubs like Hell's Angels are the largest organized crime after the Mafia and Asian gangs with a revenue of over $1 billion annually.
    http://fortune.com/2012/12/02/the-he...-fortune-1992/

    Illegal and bad, but just like the drug cartels it is a business.
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  12. #60
    Senior Member Wrider's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by GMR View Post
    bunch of god damn children. seriously must be a bunch of unmarried men just hoping to find ways to express their frustration with life and try to expedite their own death. all this shit is such childish bullshit. sucks that it happened in such a public place and probably ruined this event forever (i wanted to go look at bikes and perhaps sell one of mine in the future).
    too bad these can't just happen in a park after dark and they can all just kill eachother until the last one stands and can resume his normal life once his whole club is wiped out. am I the only one who wishes this and like that twin peaks incident the same result would have happened?
    Hey now... I'm 29 and unmarried, but even I'm not this fucking retarded. Besides, most of the outlaw bikers I know are married. Now back to your regularly scheduled bickering.
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  13. #61
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Here is a decent article in Fortune that shows how MC Clubs like Hell's Angels are the largest organized crime after the Mafia and Asian gangs with a revenue of over $1 billion annually.
    http://fortune.com/2012/12/02/the-he...-fortune-1992/

    Illegal and bad, but just like the drug cartels it is a business.
    I have always been curious as to who they get their numbers for their organized crime income stats.

    but I do like how they word all that. lumping in the numbers of all outlaw clubs to compare to one drug cartel. and even at that the numbers don't even come close to the same.

    if it had been written differently you could use those same numbers to show why the caretels are such a bigger threat than even our big crime organizations. lol

  14. #62
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    I have always been curious as to who they get their numbers for their organized crime income stats.

    but I do like how they word all that. lumping in the numbers of all outlaw clubs to compare to one drug cartel. and even at that the numbers don't even come close to the same.

    if it had been written differently you could use those same numbers to show why the caretels are such a bigger threat than even our big crime organizations. lol
    Would be interesting to see how they get these stats and if they are even close to the truth, but even though they are "small fish" in it all, they still have it organized to be way more than just some guys hanging out riding and drinking.

    But yeah really shows you how big the drug cartels are....which to me shows there are bigger issues like "the war on drugs does not work" and people are going to do drugs if they choose to. Really it all goes back to drugs as this is the largest illegal revenue and you bring that down most of these illegal organizations would collapse (maybe; still would be other sources). If it is not the MC clubs distributing drugs, then it would just be someone else; one goes down and two pop up...
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Would be interesting to see how they get these stats and if they are even close to the truth, but even though they are "small fish" in it all, they still have it organized to be way more than just some guys hanging out riding and drinking.

    But yeah really shows you how big the drug cartels are....which to me shows there are bigger issues like "the war on drugs does not work" and people are going to do drugs if they choose to. Really it all goes back to drugs as this is the largest illegal revenue and you bring that down most of these illegal organizations would collapse (maybe; still would be other sources). If it is not the MC clubs distributing drugs, then it would just be someone else; one goes down and two pop up...
    I forget where I read it but it seems the biggest dent that has ever been made on the cartels has been legalizing pot.

  16. #64
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    I forget where I read it but it seems the biggest dent that has ever been made on the cartels has been legalizing pot.
    Makes sense since drugs are not going away, just who people get them from. I'd much rather the state of CO bring in the millions from Marijuana than a drug cartel. Until drugs become legal, then people will just find ways to get them either way, so organized crime is always going to exist.

    I guess in these Motorcycle clubs it basically is just a different way of living and most the people who want nothing to do with it steer clear of them. Sucks when public events like this one become a "territory" fight; as if they can't put it aside for one event...now they most likely will have no events like this and ruined it for everyone. I understand if maybe one club intruded into the club house of a rival, but damn this was a public event and a shame people can't put that aside.
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Makes sense since drugs are not going away, just who people get them from. I'd much rather the state of CO bring in the millions from Marijuana than a drug cartel. Until drugs become legal, then people will just find ways to get them either way, so organized crime is always going to exist.

    I guess in these Motorcycle clubs it basically is just a different way of living and most the people who want nothing to do with it steer clear of them. Sucks when public events like this one become a "territory" fight; as if they can't put it aside for one event...now they most likely will have no events like this and ruined it for everyone. I understand if maybe one club intruded into the club house of a rival, but damn this was a public event and a shame people can't put that aside.
    well it is a unsaid rule that events like this are off limits. basically the whole point is that incidents like this are bad for business.

    think if it like a business. if you go out of your way to create situations like what happened at this venue it just created more problems than what you are willing to deal with.

    not to mention the unwanted attention from law enforcement. hard to do business or even just maintain your club if you are caught up in handcuffs all the time. lol.

    thats kind of why I'm leaning towards believing the Mongols over the io. the io doesnt have as much to lose. even other Leo clubs have come out to say they don't have these issues because they aren't looking for problems.

  18. #66
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    well it is a unsaid rule that events like this are off limits. basically the whole point is that incidents like this are bad for business.

    think if it like a business. if you go out of your way to create situations like what happened at this venue it just created more problems than what you are willing to deal with.

    not to mention the unwanted attention from law enforcement. hard to do business or even just maintain your club if you are caught up in handcuffs all the time. lol.

    thats kind of why I'm leaning towards believing the Mongols over the io. the io doesnt have as much to lose. even other Leo clubs have come out to say they don't have these issues because they aren't looking for problems.
    Yeah from what I know about these clubs there are a lot of unspoken rules and most the members follow by them and it works fairly well; especially the old schoolers. So yeah I agree with you man and just sounds like Iron Order just doesn’t want to follow these rules and it is causing problems. I wish I could say it surprises me, but that seems to be how a lot of “law enforcement” people act; people can say what they want but I have a buddy who is a cop and I’ve personally seen him pulled over for DUI and let go the minute he said he was a cop so I know they get away with more than an average citizen can.

    I’d really be interested to see how this would have ended up if the other way around and a Mongol was the one doing the shooting as it appears no charges will be filed on the Iron Order member. I am not so sure them being ex law enforcement didn’t help them to not get charged.



    To stir the pot….should self-defense be ok in a crowed public area like this? I see protecting yourself, but bullets can keep going and also miss and hit an innocent person. Not saying either way as I am not sure, but something I thought about.
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Yeah from what I know about these clubs there are a lot of unspoken rules and most the members follow by them and it works fairly well; especially the old schoolers. So yeah I agree with you man and just sounds like Iron Order just doesn’t want to follow these rules and it is causing problems. I wish I could say it surprises me, but that seems to be how a lot of “law enforcement” people act; people can say what they want but I have a buddy who is a cop and I’ve personally seen him pulled over for DUI and let go the minute he said he was a cop so I know they get away with more than an average citizen can.

    I’d really be interested to see how this would have ended up if the other way around and a Mongol was the one doing the shooting as it appears no charges will be filed on the Iron Order member. I am not so sure them being ex law enforcement didn’t help them to not get charged.



    To stir the pot….should self-defense be ok in a crowed public area like this? I see protecting yourself, but bullets can keep going and also miss and hit an innocent person. Not saying either way as I am not sure, but something I thought about.
    well I was reading an article the other where a real Leo MC had a lot to say about the io and none of it was good. lol.

    I have always wondered why police are not held to the same standards that we are. why if I face a situation I have to be liable to whos, whys and whats but they are not.

    if I shoot at an attacker and hit innocent bystanders Im so screwed that I may as well just let the guy kill me. not Leo.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/05...?referer=&_r=0

    lol!

  20. #68
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    well I was reading an article the other where a real Leo MC had a lot to say about the io and none of it was good. lol.

    I have always wondered why police are not held to the same standards that we are. why if I face a situation I have to be liable to whos, whys and whats but they are not.

    if I shoot at an attacker and hit innocent bystanders Im so screwed that I may as well just let the guy kill me. not Leo.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/05...?referer=&_r=0

    lol!
    It really brings to mind the old saying "lead by example" then police wonder why so many people do not respect them, but most people know that cops do do get held to the same standards as citizens

    Wow...I can't believe that article and just another example of how messed up things are! The fact this guy is charged with the cops missing and shooting a by standard in TIME SQUARE (the busiest place in this country) is unbelievable. I also like how it says after they fired their guns they took him down with a taser....ummmm, should the taser have been used first especially when you have hundreds of people around. But no lets blame the mentally disturbed person who never had a weapon cuz again a police officer used lethal force as their first option .....unbelievable!
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  21. #69
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Wow, guess this was not the first time something like that happened in that area

    Decision by 2 Officers to Open Fire in Busy Midtown Leaves Bystanders Wounded

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    Re: Moto Expo death, stabbing and shooting...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Wow, guess this was not the first time something like that happened in that area

    Decision by 2 Officers to Open Fire in Busy Midtown Leaves Bystanders Wounded
    no man. there is a lot of stories where the cops miss the mark and hit innocent people.

    do as I say not as I do. lol

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