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Thread: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

  1. #25
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    the kimbo fight.

    https://youtu.be/Wv9BsKfTONw

  2. #26
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    shamrock looks like a crying bitch at the end of that fight.

    https://youtu.be/UQXACSByIv8

  3. #27
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    shamrock looks like a crying bitch at the end of that fight.

    https://youtu.be/UQXACSByIv8
    I've watched it over and over and seems like it went left of the groin and Ken buckled when Royce hit him with that knee to head more than the groin shot. To me seems like another Ken Shamrock excuse.

    Here it is with three angles. What do people think?
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  4. #28
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    idk its close. but if it did it was high enough the cup would have protected him just fine. yeah it looked like he wanted to play the card after he got rocked a bit.

  5. #29
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Yeah hard to tell, but that is why Royce’s comment is so funny to me: how they started this sport with groin shots and he wanted to cry about that one and blame the entire fight on it. Either way it is not Gracie’s fault as they are told to continue to fight until the ref stops it. So if anyone is to blame it is the ref….but obviously the ref didn’t see it as a groin shot.

    I still see him wince when he gets that giant knee to head from Gracie.
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  6. #30
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Yeah hard to tell, but that is why Royce’s comment is so funny to me: how they started this sport with groin shots and he wanted to cry about that one and blame the entire fight on it. Either way it is not Gracie’s fault as they are told to continue to fight until the ref stops it. So if anyone is to blame it is the ref….but obviously the ref didn’t see it as a groin shot.

    I still see him wince when he gets that giant knee to head from Gracie.
    honestly it was kind of sad to watch and the way he reacted after the fight was just pathetic.

  7. #31
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    honestly it was kind of sad to watch and the way he reacted after the fight was just pathetic.
    Yeah I agree and I really don't want to see Ken fight anymore....really not even Royce, but I felt that way after Matt Huges beat him in the first round back in 2006.

    Of course: Ken Shamrock files official complaint following controversial loss to Royce Gracie


    Not sure what Ken is crying about...check this out from early UFC days
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  8. #32
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    man up Ken!!

  9. #33
    Senior Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    I saw the headlines from Joe Rogan, kind of agree. While it sounded interesting, both the fights in the main were a bit of a entertainment spectacle and not very good fights which kind of undermine the organization being a competitor to the UFC.
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  10. #34
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    I saw the headlines from Joe Rogan, kind of agree. While it sounded interesting, both the fights in the main were a bit of a entertainment spectacle and not very good fights which kind of undermine the organization being a competitor to the UFC.
    Although I read that the card broke Bellator records by 24% and was the third-most watched MMA program on cable television in nearly five years! Yes this included, UFC…well cable televised UFC (not PPV). Got 1,964,000 views so even though the fights weren’t that great, it shows people did tune in to watch them.

    Full article here:
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/22...record-ratings
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  11. #35
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Wow in comparison the UFC card on Sunday (Cowboy vs Cowboy) only brought in 983,000 views (11% up from last years average)....Bellator nearly doubled them! http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/23...verages-983000

    I think it is because UFC has too many cards now so people lose interest. Give us less cards, but more exciting fights. And do away with "Fight Pass" fights.
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  12. #36
    Senior Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Well, several different topics in my mind.

    Yes, people tuned in to watch, it had a "spectacle" component. A lot of people watched just to see the legends fight 1 last time, I did.

    But was the fight card overall, as well as the mains, just for the entertainment value or for legit fight fans. What is the next show they are going to put on? Does that undermine the Bellator wants to be a direct competitor to the UFC for top notch MMA, or do they want to be Arena football to the NFL? I don't know the answer, but it warrants being posed.
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/22...-5000-mma-news

    The UFC has so many events, it is hard to get motivated for all of them, for sure. Agree on "Fight Pass" events.
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  13. #37
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Well, several different topics in my mind.

    Yes, people tuned in to watch, it had a "spectacle" component. A lot of people watched just to see the legends fight 1 last time, I did.

    But was the fight card overall, as well as the mains, just for the entertainment value or for legit fight fans. What is the next show they are going to put on? Does that undermine the Bellator wants to be a direct competitor to the UFC for top notch MMA, or do they want to be Arena football to the NFL? I don't know the answer, but it warrants being posed.
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/22...-5000-mma-news

    The UFC has so many events, it is hard to get motivated for all of them, for sure. Agree on "Fight Pass" events.
    Well the issue is UFC became a monopoly and came in and bought all their completion and took the fighters with them (Stikeforce, WEC, Pride, Invicta, etc). So what happened is any other competitor to UFC was left with fighters not in those organizations; which were all the top organizations with the top fighters. UFC did a good job on their contracts to not let any fighter, fight in any other organization other than UFC, so they basically locked in fighters. UFC would at least allow the fighters to get their own individual sponsorships and it is how many made most of their money. UFC then did a deal with Reebok, and now does not allow a fighter to get individual sponsorships (only Reebok is allowed on their shorts; a few exception like Monster and Budweiser exist for a few fighters.) So basically UFC got fighters locked into a contract and many got stuck making way less than they were; Brenan Schaub has proved with legal documents he was making over $200K a fight in sponsorships and after the Reebok deal that went down to $20K (flat rate)….same with Benson Henderson and Phil Davis.

    So Bellator is driving an uphill battle to get top tier fighters because of how UFC monopolized MMA. Since the Reebok deal went through we have seen some good talent finally get pulled over to Bellator because fighters see they can make more money in Bellator now; plus are allowed individual sponsors and can fight in other leagues. The only way Bellator is even able to compete is because their parent company is Viacom (big money), and can actually have the capital to do it….and they won’t sell out to UFC like other smaller organizations were forced to.

    Bellator has brought in some top tier talent lately from the UFC and is slowly doing more.Phil Davis, Cheick Kongo, Diego Nunes, Kendall Grove, Stephan Bonnar, Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, Tito Ortiz, Lavar Johnson...and Benson Henderson are now all under Bellator. They actually do put on some great fights, but they are just not known as much as UFC, but some of their fighters would do pretty well in UFC I bet; Alexander Shlemenko, Emanuel Lewis, Michael Chandler, Joe Warren, and some others, but they are just not as well known as the UFC fighters; Bellator has only been around a few years compared to UFC that basically started this all. Heck Eddie Alvaraz was the Belltor champ and came into UFC and just beat Anthony Petis (former champ) and Gilbert Melendez and may get a title shot soon; so it shows their champs are the real deal.

    Overall I just want competition to UFC as I feel this Reebok deal was great for UFC, but not for the fighters. Nobody needs to be getting $38K a year (UFC average salary) to get beat in the head when boxers make 10x the amount…and to me don’t put on as many good shows. http://www.shmoop.com/careers/mma-fighter/salary.html. UFC knew they were screwing their fighters, but when you monopolize you can do that. So supporting Bellator is the best way to help them get better talent.

    These “fun fights” just get the attention,but even this Friday there is a real Bellator card with true talent…just not well known. Bellator 154 is there next big card and Phil Davis (former UFC) will go against King Moe…to me a awesome fight. Not as well known is Josh Thompson vs Michael Chandler….again a great fight and I feel any of these 4 would do great in UFC.


    http://bellator.spike.com/articles/k...le-this-friday
    Last edited by bulldog; Wed Feb 24th, 2016 at 02:32 PM.
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  14. #38
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Well, several different topics in my mind.

    Yes, people tuned in to watch, it had a "spectacle" component. A lot of people watched just to see the legends fight 1 last time, I did.

    But was the fight card overall, as well as the mains, just for the entertainment value or for legit fight fans. What is the next show they are going to put on? Does that undermine the Bellator wants to be a direct competitor to the UFC for top notch MMA, or do they want to be Arena football to the NFL? I don't know the answer, but it warrants being posed.
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/2/22...-5000-mma-news

    The UFC has so many events, it is hard to get motivated for all of them, for sure. Agree on "Fight Pass" events.
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  15. #39
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    All I can say is to support Bellator or it will continue that the average UFC salary is $34K! BS, compared to boxing!

    Average Salary: $34,000

    Expected Lifetime Earnings: $38,000


    The top UFC fighters can make quite a lot of money for a single fight especially if it is such a big deal that it's televised on Pay-Per-View. For the guys at the top, they might be looking at a base salary of a few hundred grand for the win, plus thousands more in knockout bonuses or "fight of the night" bonuses, and potentially hundreds of thousands more in "back room" bonuses. These guys are also probably going to have a number of sponsorships or endorsement deals. At the end of the day, they may be taking home more than a million for a single fight—not as much as a boxer at the top of his game, but still not bad. However, those are the exceptions rather than the rule.
    Below them you have your second-tier fighters, bringing in between $10k-$25k per fight. But most likely you will work like the devil to book a fight once every few months, for which you will get paid a few grand, plus another few grand if you win. Not to mention the fact that this doesn't include money taken off the top for insurance, licenses, taxes, manager/promoter fees, etc. Considering how hard it is to make a buck doing this, it doesn't make much difference whether you're a lover or a fighter. Both pay roughly the same.
    http://www.shmoop.com/careers/mma-fighter/salary.html


    Oh but Dana White gets $20 million a year and is worth $350 million....selfish prick
    http://www.celebritynetworth.com/ric...ite-net-worth/

    Last edited by bulldog; Wed Feb 24th, 2016 at 01:28 PM.
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  16. #40
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    bulldog, a lot of information above, some I knew, some I didn't. I knew the Reebok deal was bad for the fighters, but had no idea it was that bad!!! Was also curious why Schaub left, that makes sense as part of why he left. It was interesting that the UFC was allowed to purchase all the competition. Seems fairly monopolistic but I guess when you get paid, you don't care.

    I agree the King Mo fight looks interesting. Did Phil Davis get cut or leave the UFC? Besides him and Henderson, most of the other big names you mentioned are beyond their prime, which is when UFC seems to let them go. Which supports the general opinion of any org not named the UFC are just the minor leagues leading to the UFC. It would be great if Bellator could become a consistently legit contender. In theory help fans get better fights and force both orgs pay fighters better. Agree on $40k being a garbage salary to fight.

    I have never understood how there is so much money in boxing. I find it very boring compared to MMA. 10 round, 10-9 each round.... I have better ways to waste an hour of my time. I watched Fight Master Belletor, it wasn't very good, esp compared to TUF but still better than watching boxing.
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  17. #41
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    bulldog, a lot of information above, some I knew, some I didn't. I knew the Reebok deal was bad for the fighters, but had no idea it was that bad!!! Was also curious why Schaub left, that makes sense as part of why he left. It was interesting that the UFC was allowed to purchase all the competition. Seems fairly monopolistic but I guess when you get paid, you don't care.


    I agree the King Mo fight looks interesting. Did Phil Davis get cut or leave the UFC? Besides him and Henderson, most of the other big names you mentioned are beyond their prime, which is when UFC seems to let them go. Which supports the general opinion of any org not named the UFC are just the minor leagues leading to the UFC. It would be great if Bellator could become a consistently legit contender. In theory help fans get better fights and force both orgs pay fighters better. Agree on $40k being a garbage salary to fight.


    I have never understood how there is so much money in boxing. I find it very boring compared to MMA. 10 round, 10-9 each round.... I have better ways to waste an hour of my time. I watched Fight Master Belletor, it wasn't very good, esp compared to TUF but still better than watching boxing.

    UFC is still definitely the “big league” of MMA, but I am glad Bellator is at least trying because the UFC monopoly would only get stronger without competition. I agree and a lot of those guys are past their prime, but I am hoping with Phil Davis and Benson Henderson that this is a start for the big talent to start to consider other option than UFC; they seem to be paying more and let them have sponsors so that was a big part of why Phil Davis and Benson Henderson left; they were not cut, but they were at the end of their contract. Both were offered a UFC renewal, but appears the Bellator deal was better and it just came down to business (paycheck) for both of them.


    These explain it, but seems like it goes back to that sponsorship money.
    Benson Henderson: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2016/2/1/...al-in-bellator
    Phil Davis: http://www.mmamania.com/2015/4/20/84...t-personal-mma


    As for Brendan Schaub, he was one of the first fighters to publicly go against the Reebok deal (because of his successful podcast; Fighter and Kid). Basically Dana White called him a liar, so Brendan provided all his financial documents to prove it was true and gave these to Dana White (I personally saw the documents as I work with his brother who handles that stuff for him). Brendan had Ecko (clothing line),Boni Aqui (popular drink in brazil), Soul Headphones and a bunch more and he got this because he was able to “market” himself and went the extra mile to secure these. Image has a lot to do with why sponsors choose a fighter so with the Reebok deal fighters lost their option to market themselves and have to be content with one sponsor now.


    Here is Reebok’s sponsorship payout:
    1-5 fights: $2,500
    6-10 fights: $5,000
    11-15 fights: $10,000
    16-20 fights: $15,000
    More than 21 fights: $20,000
    Title challenger: $30,000
    Champion: $40,000
    http://www.mmamania.com/2015/5/6/856...rship-deal-mma


    Also, some of Brendan’s decision came from Joe Rogan (one of his best friends that also owns a successful podcast) that showed him that the money he was making was not worth the damage he was doing to his body and he could make more on a podcast (who would have thought)…some bad KO’s by some of the toughest guys on planet; Ben Rothwell and Travis Brown. He is happy as he makes way more with his podcast and doing his “show” on the road now with comedian Bryan Callen. Speaking of that they are coming on March 18th 19th and my wife, Barn, and I were talking about going. Let us know if you are down. Yickets only $25 https://www.comedyworks.com/comedians/905


    Yeah no idea how boxers make so much money. I know with Mayweather he cut the “middle” men out and that is why he makes so much money. I agree though and I just don’t find it exciting anymore and I’d rather watch MMA.
    Last edited by bulldog; Thu Feb 25th, 2016 at 07:43 AM.
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  18. #42
    Senior Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Re: Any Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Kimbo Slice, or Dada 500 Fans….

    I don't really listen to any podcasts, but I have heard some of the fighter and the kid. I like it as well as Joe Rogan's show. That show would be interesting to go see, but I am hoping to take the new camper out that weekend for first trip of the year and first with the new rig.

    Completely makes sense to move from fighting to talking, it is much safer and glad he can make more money. That pay structure just doesn't make sense. Not sure how they justify that as being better than individual sponsorships for the fighters.

    "Yeah no idea how boxers make so much money." Course I also have no idea how Jeb Bush spent $130 million in 9 months. Maybe I just don't understand big money. This isn't a political issue, its a WTF issue.
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