Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

[bulldog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_(2015_film)

Since this movie just came out for rent I recommend people seeing it as it really shook me up: one of those movies where after you just keep thinking about it. I’ve had at least 5 concussions through the years and I am sure in the sportbike community others have too; one of mine was from a motorcycle wreck.

Not only did Will Smith do an excellent job, but the movie was very informative on CTE (Chronic traumatic encephalopathy) that his character discovered. The doctor, Dr. Bennet Omalu, proves that concussions over the years have made people go crazy and is occurring more and more with sports nowadays. Unfortunately it can really only be confirmed post-mortem, so it has taken a long time to get this message out.

Honestly after seeing this, I am not sure I’d let my kid play football in fear of the concussions and damage it could lead to in the future (if they played for many years, starting at a early age). I’ve heard stories of NFL players breaking down in tears watching this movie and makes me wonder how many people are truly educated in this….or do they just play a sport and not think of the consequences.

It has mainly hit football, but there are other sports that have had players have it too: hockey, WWE, boxing, etc


This list is pretty amazing List of NFL players with chronic traumatic encephalopathy
Former players with CTE confirmed post-mortem: 25
Deceased players suspected of having suffered from CTE: 8
Living former players diagnosed with CTE or ALS or reporting symptoms consistent with CTE or ALS: 33
Former players listed as plaintiffs in lawsuits against the NFL for concussion-related injuries received after playing: 2000+


Discuss..............

[#1Townie]

I'm sorry man I really hate this cte argument. I don't deny that head injuries happen but come on. football? out of all the things in the world you are going to argue that the guys who wear the most pads and play the least are getting injured more than say... rugby players?

while yes football is huge here in America if you take a step back and look at the sporting community around the world football is a small aspect of life.

rugby players don't seem to be having these issues. how about dirt bike riders? haven't seen Travis in the news for slapping down any girls. don't see Johnny Knoxville freaking out.

now they are suing the NFL? what a bunch babies. this just proves even further that these football players even more pathetic. they have been handed the world their whole lives and it shows. everyday.

my finale argument will be hockey players. guys who didn't even wear helmets until recently. unless of course you want argue about that soft piece of ice that broke your fall.

[bulldog]

I'm sorry man I really hate this cte argument. I don't deny that head injuries happen but come on. football? out of all the things in the world you are going to argue that the guys who wear the most pads and play the least are getting injured more than say... rugby players?

while yes football is huge here in America if you take a step back and look at the sporting community around the world football is a small aspect of life.

rugby players don't seem to be having these issues. how about dirt bike riders? haven't seen Travis in the news for slapping down any girls. don't see Johnny Knoxville freaking out.

now they are suing the NFL? what a bunch babies. this just proves even further that these football players even more pathetic. they have been handed the world their whole lives and it shows. everyday.

my finale argument will be hockey players. guys who didn't even wear helmets until recently. unless of course you want argue about that soft piece of ice that broke your fall.

Well it is a real thing and this doctor had proven it with biopsies of the brain; appears the liquid that surrounds our head releases a “toxin” when it is jolted; more complicated than that, but that is the short description. This entire movie is based on true facts and basically follows the ex-NFL player, Mike Webster, who did go crazy and died at the age of 50. Junior Seau was another high known case where he went crazy and killed himself.

I am not familiar with Rugby, but with NFL football the issue is the players get a concussion and are back playing that same day. With motorcross, you very rarely will see a guy get a concussion and then ride again that same day…even so they don’t suffer the repeated impacts that a NFL players does; average is 30-50 hits a game…some of these register higher than an impact of a severe car crash (we are dealing with some of the biggest, strongest, athletes on this planet…does Rugby even have the same “power” players as NFL…I really do not know???). As with Hockey, again I believe they may take a few hits, but not to the extent of a NFL players who takes a lot of those hits directly to the head. I am no experts, just saying the list is huge for NFL and that is where this doctor decided to focus it on as the issue is repeated concussions without time for the brain to heal

I am surprised you didn’t mention MMA, but you must know when a fighter gets a concussion he/she is banned from even training for 6 months…much less fighting. Now boxing with their 3 round Ko’s is a different story, but we all have seen “punchy” boxers to know the damage. I’d go to say boxing has to be worse for CTE than football……all I can think is it is widely known, so people have accepted that, where as in football we have kids playing and getting concussion at a young age and many people believe CTE is not real.

There is no test for CTE on a living person, so it has been a hard thing to really prove…only recently has science got advanced enough to biopsy a brain like we can.

Either way you should watch the movie and see how you feel after. I didn’t know much about it, but after watching the movie and doing some research, I did become a believer and has me worried about the concussions I have had in past….and how I need to avoid any more in the future.


P.S. The CTE article does mention other sports too: CTE has been most commonly found in professional athletes participating in American football,association football, ice hockey, professional wrestling, stunt performing, bull riding, bicycle motocross, rodeo, and other contact sports who have experienced repeated concussions or other brain trauma. Its presence in domestic violence is also being investigated. It can affect high school players who have played for just a few years.^[1]

[bodhizafa]

Looks like Rugby is pretty worried about it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-34249189

[#1Townie]

Looks like Rugby is pretty worried about it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-34249189

but are their players acting like children? I will say this again in a shorter speach.

I am not saying the injury doesn't happen. I'm saying blaiming poor choices and acting like children on it is pathetic.


edit.

like tiger woods blaiming cheating on his wife as part of being addicted to sex. remember all that stuff? every time someone cheated on their spouse it was because they had this illness?

just an example.

[bulldog]

but are their players acting like children? I will say this again in a shorter speach.

I am not saying the injury doesn't happen. I'm saying blaiming poor choices and acting like children on it is pathetic.


edit.

like tiger woods blaiming cheating on his wife as part of being addicted to sex. remember all that stuff? every time someone cheated on their spouse it was because they had this illness?

just an example.

I think this is why this film was put out....to educate people of it. Before this movie I really didn't think this stuff was that big a deal, but it is. Like I said, let players know the consequences and if they choose to continue to play, then they should not b*tch. NFL has just been trying to cover it up for so long.....

[bodhizafa]

but are their players acting like children? I will say this again in a shorter speach.

I am not saying the injury doesn't happen. I'm saying blaiming poor choices and acting like children on it is pathetic.


edit.

like tiger woods blaiming cheating on his wife as part of being addicted to sex. remember all that stuff? every time someone cheated on their spouse it was because they had this illness?

just an example.

From the Mayo Clinic:

Signs and symptoms of CTE usually begin eight to 10 years after repetitive mild traumatic brain injury. These include:

• Difficulty thinking (cognitive impairment)
• Impulsive behavior
• Depression or apathy
• Short-term memory loss
• Difficulty planning and carrying out tasks (executive function)
• Emotional instability
• Substance abuse
• Suicidal thoughts or behavior

You might be correct in saying a lot of them act like children and it has nothing to do with CTE.....but some of them probably are acting like children because of CTE. Poor choices prior to the trauma may have more to do with a shitty personality or just being an asshole like you suggest. But post trauma, the symptoms could be creating the same image.

Here is the link to the Mayo Clinic page

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20113581

some interesting stuff. One of the misconceptions is that its mainly caused by large traumatic impacts when in actuality the multiple mild impacts over time are just as bad if not worse. Probably why boxers with long careers who haven't been knocked out much (Joe Frazier) are so messed up. Or why it seems to hit the NFL Lineman and linebackers more than defensive backs or receivers who get laid out.

[#1Townie]

no no no no. I didn't say it wasn't real. I even said I'm sure exposure to masive head wounds over a long period does have an effect. I'm talking about the said actions being blamed on ctw. as in beating the holy hell out of your chick and dragging her to your car.

notice you didn't argue hockey. rugy is the same as football just without pads. the rules are a bit different but honestly American football is just a pussafied verson of rugy.

my point was that there is many sports in the world much harder on the body than football yet these guys are crying like they are being sent into battle.

it makes me sick to here this bullshit. I'm sorry you got paid millions of dollars to play a game. you poor thing.

[bodhizafa]

Rugby players don't hit heads nearly as much as football players. There is an argument that if you want to do something about CTE than ban helmets from football, then players wouldn't hit head first. My understanding (haven't seen the movie) is that they actually made the issue smaller than it is in the film.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...gue-of-denial/

Gets me nervous because I've played a lot of football and hockey, actually the worst head shots I've taken have been mt biking and snowboarding though. Symptoms (depression, memory loss, etc) can be there and you won't know, just gets chalked up as old age or blamed on something else.

NFL is in a tough situation. I'm guessing this is going to get more and more exposed with many sports but football will be the poster child for it.

[bulldog]

no no no no. I didn't say it wasn't real. I even said I'm sure exposure to masive head wounds over a long period does have an effect. I'm talking about the said actions being blamed on ctw. as in beating the holy hell out of your chick and dragging her to your car.

notice you didn't argue hockey. rugy is the same as football just without pads. the rules are a bit different but honestly American football is just a pussafied verson of rugy.

my point was that there is many sports in the world much harder on the body than football yet these guys are crying like they are being sent into battle.

it makes me sick to here this bullshit. I'm sorry you got paid millions of dollars to play a game. you poor thing.

I know from the movie and artiles, people claimed that Mike Webster was a nice guy all his life and then he started going crazy and his entire attitude changed because of CTE; he was pretty well off and had friends offer to help him, yet lived in his van an actually tazed himself to fall asleep. From what I read he didn’t even understand what was going on and doctors at the time had no idea either until this doctor came around and proved through extensive post-mortem autopsies that CTE was real and could cause these issues. I believe they said the same thing about Chris Bennoit (WWE), that he was super nice and then something snapped in him, so I am not all that sure it is an excuse; although I am sure for some it is.

I think this is happening in all impact sports, but the NFL is just one of the biggest to go after and since his research stated with NFL players, it just got put in as the major offender.

I thought the same thing about “poor guys get millions to play”, but then it appears the issue here is NFL has denied this for so long that many players thought the equipment they were provided was enough to keep them safe”. Years later they find out that the NFL doesn’t care and thinks of them as a product…out with the old and in with the new.

Honestly I look at the giant NFL players and can’t think of many more sports that do have bigger impacts on a daily basis…..minus boxing (again I don’t watch Rugby to know enough to comment). The guys that make the NFL are the top 1% of athletes around the world and the strength they have is almost unbelievable…..then getting hit by that on a daily basis for years…most players that make it to the NFL start as young kids to make it to that skill level; what this doctor is saying is one of the main contributing factors (young brains).

I just think the more this gets out the more it will make people aware that there are bigger risks than a few broken bones, arthritis, back problems, etc that we have come to link to football players.

Rugby players don't hit heads nearly as much as football players. There is an argument that if you want to do something about CTE than ban helmets from football, then players wouldn't hit head first. My understanding (haven't seen the movie) is that they actually made the issue smaller than it is in the film.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...gue-of-denial/

Gets me nervous because I've played a lot of football and hockey, actually the worst head shots I've taken have been mt biking and snowboarding though. Symptoms (depression, memory loss, etc) can be there and you won't know, just gets chalked up as old age or blamed on something else.

NFL is in a tough situation. I'm guessing this is going to get more and more exposed with many sports but football will be the poster child for it.

I agree and think this is getting downplayed because the NFL is never going away….like they said in the movie “Sunday used to be the lords days…then football came along and took that day and people can’t live without it”. Seeing how the city reacted to the Broncos winning showed me how deep football is in a state and most likely will never stop……so all they can do is educate people and if players want to continue, then they know the risks.

Yeah I’ve taken some bad hits too….wrestling, fights, car accidents, sportbikes wreck, crowbar overhead (worst one), snowboarding wrecks and it has really made me worry as I do see some signs and would never know if this is the cause of like you said…old age or something else. Either way it seems after the damage is done, there is nothing they can do to repair it.....scary

[#1Townie]

Honestly I look at the giant NFL players and can’t think of many more sports that do have bigger impacts on a daily basis…..minus boxing (again I don’t watch Rugby to know enough to comment). The guys that make the NFL are the top 1% of athletes around the world and the strength they have is almost unbelievable…..then getting hit by that on a daily basis

https://youtu.be/-5xkMNIt-5k

https://youtu.be/RdTh8O9xYO0

[bulldog]

https://youtu.be/-5xkMNIt-5k

https://youtu.be/RdTh8O9xYO0

Oh for sure NHL has some big hits. My assumption would be the size difference as a average pro hockey player is about 6'1" and 202lbs, where the average pro football player is way higher; offensive guards average is 6'3" and 300lbs. I'd also think that grip on ice can't be as effective as grass, so it is possible a NFL player can deliver more impact based on that as well....could be wrong, just using common sense of a skate vs cleated shoes.

Looking at that Rugby video it appears to me that they players are not as big as NFL players; especially on the defensive line

The average NFL players is huge (especially the one delivering the hits): http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/pa...l-player-specs


http://www.psychguides.com/interact/...erage-athlete/

[bodhizafa]

You guys just sent me down a rabbit hole reading up on this stuff

[bulldog]

You guys just sent me down a rabbit hole reading up on this stuff

Nice, that is what I wanted....more people learning about it I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie...let me know if you do watch it

Wish more people on the site would participate! You get tons of people posting about a missed St Patrick day parade, but talk about something serious like the brain and nobody has anything to say

[#1Townie]

Nice, that is what I wanted....more people learning about it I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie...let me know if you do watch it

Wish more people on the site would participate! You get tons of people posting about a missed St Patrick day parade, but talk about something serious like the brain and nobody has anything to say

its not motorcycle related. we are only supposed to talk about bikes.

rolled a quad off a mountain Sunday. does that count for bike related? they have handlebars. you throw your leg over it. lol.

[bulldog]

Yeah I don’t think anyone is getting off a crime using a CTE defense…..they should definitely go to prison as they are a threat to society and cannot be trusted or cured. Although there is a chance these people did go crazy because of CTE. I just feel the NFL covered this up for years and this is why they are being sued. Plus CTE is not found till after death so I assume it is the families of these people that are suing a majority of the time.

its not motorcycle related. we are only supposed to talk about bikes.

rolled a quad off a mountain Sunday. does that count for bike related? they have handlebars. you throw your leg over it. lol.

Damn bro...you ok?

Whatever, I respected the “motorcycle talk” babies, until I see they post nearly nothing and we end up with a boring forum with no action; plus most motorcycle talk has been posted before so there is not much to talk about. People give you crap, but honestly at least you participate and that brings 10X more value to a site than a lurker who never posts.

[#1Townie]

Yeah I don’t think anyone is getting off a crime using a CTE defense…..they should definitely go to prison as they are a threat to society and cannot be trusted or cured. Although there is a chance these people did go crazy because of CTE. I just feel the NFL covered this up for years and this is why they are being sued. Plus CTE is not found till after death so I assume it is the families of these people that are suing a majority of the time.

Damn bro...you ok?

Whatever, I respected the “motorcycle talk” babies, until I see they post nearly nothing and we end up with a boring forum with no action; plus most motorcycle talk has been posted before so there is not much to talk about. People give you crap, but honestly at least you participate and that brings 10X more value to a site than a lurker who never posts.

yeah I'm good. first time I ever used a jiu jitsu throw on something without a heartbeat. lol. looped it on a massive climb. took two hours to recovery it.

[TinkerinWstuff]

again you are trying to argue something I have already agreed with.

I AM NOT SAYING CTE ISNT REAL.

I just don't agree with allowing people's actions to be ignored because they want to blame it on something besides their own actions.

if a man raped a child because a brain tumor gave him pedaphile tendencies I would feel the same way.

Yeah I don’t think anyone is getting off a crime using a CTE defense…..they should definitely go to prison as they are a threat to society and cannot be trusted or cured. Although there is a chance these people did go crazy because of CTE. I just feel the NFL covered this up for years and this is why they are being sued. Plus CTE is not found till after death so I assume it is the families of these people that are suing a majority of the time.

Damn bro...you ok?

Whatever, I respected the “motorcycle talk” babies, until I see they post nearly nothing and we end up with a boring forum with no action; plus most motorcycle talk has been posted before so there is not much to talk about. People give you crap, but honestly at least you participate and that brings 10X more value to a site than a lurker who never posts.

Just had an NHL player get his suspension for viscous cross check on a referee reduced from 20 games to 10 because of a concussion defense. Happened in the last month, look it up.

[Gramps]

I read this morning there is a test that can be done on a living patient within 7 days of the concussion. The fluid surrounding the brain releases a protein when it is damaged that is detectable in the blood stream.

So a blood test can start the process of identification.

This is a pretty interesting topic but I do agree with Townie in that I have no sympathy for a guy who made millions and knew the dangers but decided to proceed. I also agree that this like a lot of sicknesses/illnesses get used as crutches when things go bad. Especially when money becomes part of the conversation.

[bulldog]

that one was the polarise sportsman 500. my toy is a Honda trx 450r.

Nice toys man! One day I'll pull the trigger and get one.....

I read this morning there is a test that can be done on a living patient within 7 days of the concussion. The fluid surrounding the brain releases a protein when it is damaged that is detectable in the blood stream.

So a blood test can start the process of identification.

This is a pretty interesting topic but I do agree with Townie in that I have no sympathy for a guy who made millions and knew the dangers but decided to proceed. I also agree that this like a lot of sicknesses/illnesses get used as crutches when things go bad. Especially when money becomes part of the conversation.

Found it, thanks for that info Gramps https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0328114638.htm

So it appears it can detect concussions which is great, but still cannot detect CTE in a living person, but guess it is a start

From article:
It's estimated nearly a quarter of a million children are treated in hospitals each year for concussions from playing sports, an average of nearly 700 a day. Almost all concussions in children are diagnosed only by symptoms, which are either observed, like vomiting or loss of balance, or symptoms reported by the child, like blurred vision or headaches. Neither scenario gives doctors and objective way to determine the severity of the injury.

Wow, I didn’t think the stat was that high as an average of 700 kids get concussions a day….that is a lot

From article:
The biomarker Papa analyzed is known as a glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP). These proteins are found in glial cells, which surround neurons in the brain, and when an injury occurs, the GFAP are released. What makes them unique is that they pass the blood-brain barrier and enter the bloodstream, making them easy to detect with this particular test.

This sounds very similar to what Dr. Omalu discovered; injury to brain release a toxin. Appears this toxin is released and the brain tries to fight it off, which eventually leads to people going crazy.

From article:
When cross-checked with scans, the blood test was able to detect mild to moderate traumatic brain lesions with up to 97 percent accuracy in patients 18 years and older. The blood test also indicated which patients were in need of life-saving neurosurgery. This suggests that the blood test could be used by clinicians for up to a week after injury to detect brain injury. This is important because many patients with concussion may not seek medical attention for days after injury.

This is awesome that it also indicates if neurosurgery is needed because this is normally how people die from concussions; they ignore the symptoms and think they will be ok and by then it is too late.

From article:
The blood test could also dramatically cut down on the need for computerized tomography (CT) scans. Currently, CT scans are the most precise way to diagnose brain lesions, but are expensive and are associated with radiation exposure.

And save money too as an average CT scan is about $1200+ and a blood test is less than a hundred. Most physicians don’t want to spend the money to do a CT scan, so this could dramatically improve detection



I’d really like to see this go into effect and used in sports. Currently some sports like UFC will suspend a person for 6 months (training or fighting) and it would be interesting to see if the NFL could do that too. Obviously this could take a player out for an entire season, so I doubt they would ever got for it, but it would be the smart thing to do. Although like Townie and Gramps said, if players are aware of this and continue to choose to play, I do not feel bad for them....like the boxers who go in knowing they will probably be "punch drunk" one day, but still fight.


So anyone want to share some concussions stories?

I got a few…one I saw double for 2 days, another shattered my new helmet and ruined my track day (but saved my life), another I wrecked on the first run at Keystone but chose to continue to snowboard the rest of day with the concussion (probably not smart now that I think back on it).

[#1Townie]

Rollerblade soccer in my friends garage when I was in the fifth grade. kicked the ball fell backwards and hit my head on a old metal tool box hard enough to leave a dent.

knocked me clean out. had a creepy dream about flying above my old town with all my friends waving at. woke up and had no hearing for a few seconds.

[bulldog]

Those wild dreams are weird….like an instant deep sleep dream

First time was my own fault and my ego. Us trailer park kids (yes ghetto) always met up to do boxing matches in our front yard. I did very well because I was fast, but nobody wanted to box the biggest kid in our neighbor so dumb me was like “I’ll do it”; he had probably 100lbs over me and I was maybe 135lbs. I got in there and landed like 5 quick punches and next thing I knew I woke up on the ground with everyone looking up at me. I had no idea what happened, but was told that I flew like a foot in the air from uppercut and was out for like a minute.

Worst by far was after I got in a fair fight with a guy and he lost and his buddy pulled out a crowbar and hit me over the head multiple times from behind…I was out on first hit and my cousin had to drag me out as we both got beat. That time my head cracked open and had to get it stapled back shut. Saw double for like two days and felt “dumb” for like a month. If anything this is the one that did damage L

[#1Townie]

oh man I love those blind sides with objects. hearing the ping and seeing that bright flash of light. first one I got jumped by a rival gang and hit with a sobe bottle. the old thick glass ones. thats was fun.

took a 2x4 to the face once trying to be a badass. went to say what you going to do with that. got out what you and bam got nailed right in the face. lol

[bulldog]

oh man I love those blind sides with objects. hearing the ping and seeing that bright flash of light. first one I got jumped by a rival gang and hit with a sobe bottle. the old thick glass ones. thats was fun.

took a 2x4 to the face once trying to be a badass. went to say what you going to do with that. got out what you and bam got nailed right in the face. lol

People who have never been hit like this always trip out when I tell them about the “bright flash of light” and the “ring” that you see in cartoons; as if I am making this up. In some of the fights I’ve been in I only knew I got hit by those flashes of light because the adrenaline kicks in and I never really felt much, but that always told me I got hit.

Many people don’t realize that one of the hardest things to do is be able to continue to fight after takin hits to the head; much harder than it seems. For me everything gets fuzzy and almost like slow motion. I’ve seen some of the toughest guys get hit and not be able to handle it and get whooped…..Broc Lesnar in UFC was a guy like this; huge, but guy could not take getting hit…went back to fake WWE. Then you got guys like Nate Diaz that get better the more they are hit…those are the scary ones