Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
okay I'll play. yes.... yes it's it is all math. heres the problem. this guy expects me to believe that some of the world's best has it wrong when he has it right? lol. happy you brought up your guitar background. quick question. why are you doing what you do for a living and not playing for a major band making more money than you ever knew you could have? sorry bud not trying to rip you apart but I'm being honest here. you aren't a rockstar because while I'm sure you're great you aren't on that same level.

Yeah, you're not ripping anything apart. You equate lots of money and rock star image with being a successful musician. I equate someone whose spent a lifetime working on their craft as a musician, constantly always learning new techniques, theory, and ways to improve. I'm not going to go in-depth as to why I never pursued a professional career as a musician. Suffice to say, I preferred never to sell my soul, have someone control what I can or can't write, and make the music they want, and not the music that I want. You're right I'm not on the same level. I aspire to musicians like Al Di Meola, I couldn't give a damn about aspiring to Motley Crue. I like Motley Crue, good metal band, just have no use for that kind of lifestyle.

Believe it or not, and Gene Simmons is a complete liar when he said, the only reason someone picks up a guitar is because of getting chicks. Yeah, some of us pickup an instrument to become better people because of it.

Gene Simmons is a great entertainer and that's it, he's not a musician by any stretch of the imagination.

you want to talk second shooter? okay.... why is the body count so low? seriously.... for two shooters that's a pretty low body count considering the so called second shooter is merely 250 yards out. I can hit you with a pistol at that range.

You don't understand target acquisition though. Sure 22,000 static people in a crowd are an easy target. 22,000 running scared and in all directions, that's a whole other ball of wax. For the Mandalay shooter to fix on targets at 475-500yards out, with for the most part .223/5.56 ammo, shows how he didn't prepare for the targets he was shooting at. Then to fix on targets that once the first round of gunfire rings out, go from being static, to dynamic movement. Moving in all directions, and seeking cover. Then you have to factor in lead time for the target. He's not just aiming on one specific person, he's got people running everywhere in all directions.

I agree with you, 22,000 people from an elevated position, is a target rich environment. That doesn't mean the shooter has the ability to capitalize on said target rich environment.

Also, sure you can hit someone with a pistol at 250yrds. Yet, unless you're using a .44 magnum, .454 Casull, or S&W500(for example and even then, that's pushing it for these rounds) you're not going to be bringing down much. And don't play games with me man, and say that a .45ACP or 9mm or .40 or 10mm or .357SIG will kill at that range. Certainly they all could, but that would be a one in a million kill shot. Not to mention, you'd be aiming at the moon to get a pistol round to travel that distance. All of the calibers I just mentioned, have terrible ballistic coefficients, so there is no snow balls chance in hell that you'll actually be aiming at someone at that range and making the shot.

see like you I also shoot. I understand a lot more than you are giving me credit for. I reload. I shoot long range. just haven't felt the need to try to measure dicks.

Not measuring anything here, just debating a hotly contested topic. However, when it comes to bullet performance and ballistics I do know more than enough to hold my own.
this dude on the video gave me nothing. absolutely nothing. but back to the numbers. let's really break this down.

58 dead and 500 wounded. for two shooters that's a pretty low number. it's actually a massively low number. I mean we aren't talking about a mall. we aren't talking about a school. we are talking about a crowd of 22k thousand people. a casualty rate of less than 5%. that's a pretty shitty score. not to mention that the 500 wounded doesn't take out the number of people who were trampled or hurt themselves fleeing the shooting. that's now dropping those numbers even further!!!

Not really, I'd say 58 dead and 500+ wound is 58 dead and 500+ wounded too many. I'd say the people that survived were very fortunate and blessed to not have been counted with the casualties, and thankfully that's all the more people that were killed or injured. Still one person is one to many but that's how I see it. And again, you're not factoring in moving targets that are moving away from the gun fire. Sure, he was shooting for 10 minutes but those people didn't all just stand there like bumps on a log for 10 minutes. They moved and fled the scene. Therefore, increasing an already large distance for being downrange of the shooter.

Had Paddock engaged the people from 200yrds or less, and with something bigger than .223 then he may have dealt more damage. However, with what most reports have been, the .223/5.56 was used at that range, he's already getting to the limits of that specific round at 500yrds. Sure a .223/5.56 can go out to 800yrds, still doesn't take away from the fact that it's a little bitty ass bullet that drops off like crazy in terms of muzzle energy and velocity. Again, it's not a magnum round, therefore it won't hold the same energy and velocities of a magnum round.

so explain to me why those numbers are so low? sure when you say 58 killed 500 injured that sounds very high right until you think about the 22k people shoulder to shoulder.

see above

nah man the numbers make sense for the narrative. a lone gunman spraying and praying from 1000 yards out. one guy. just one. that is unless the second shooter is just shooting blanks. lol.

Wasn't at 1000yrds out(remember 1000yds is just over a 1/2 mile, think about that), and we don't know exactly how long the 2nd shooter was shooting. All that is confirmed is 10 minutes from shooter one(Mandalay Bay).

sorry man the numbers just don't add up. hell even the conspiracy theorist can't keep the story right. first the second shooter was on a lower floor of the Mandalay Bay. guess they figured out how long it actually takes to replace those windows and realized there was no way that happened.

How true it is I don't know, I've never been to Mandalay Bay. But one of the guys I've worked with, said he's been there and the windows from 10th floor and below, he said the windows do open. Anything above the 10th floor, the windows won't open. That's what I've been told, so who knows about the windows issues.

but I do find it a fun debate. just not realistic.
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