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Thread: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

  1. #337
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    just confirmed in FP3, Lorenzo is out. Now has a left wrist injury.
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  2. #338
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Have to see what happens tomorrow for the race, but looks like Yamaha may have found something. Rossi is fast in Sector 3 and dominating everyone in Sector 4, and was just narrowly beat by Marquez for pole. Even Vinales snagged 4th for qualifying. FWIW, Rossi and Marquez are both 2/10's faster than everyone on the grid.

    I think what is helping is the fact that a new track may be leveling everyone out. Or my theory, going over how the weekend has gone for Yamaha. I think they may be starting to make that break through with their software. Vinales even mentioned they are trying things now that they should have tried months ago. Also he's mentioned they've managed to change up the weight distribution on the bike and has led to better balance now.

    Predictions for tomorrow, Rossi, Marquez and Dovi for the podium. Can't say who will win, as all three look fast and even Vinales has a shot in there as well.

    One thing that is funny, even Crutchlow is saying he can't believe how Yamaha found one second per lap.

    Which again, leads me to believe that they are starting to make some end roads into their electronics issues. Still early to call it and we'll see where they are at in Japan. But looks good for Yamaha at the moment. Let's just hope they are figuring things out and are back at the front. Getting boring with just Marquez and the Duc's up front.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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  3. #339
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Yeah they definitely found a little something extra and haven’t seen smiles like that out of these guys in a while. Hope they can keep working in that way for sure. It’s going to be a hard fought race tomorrow but should be a good one since all manufacturers seem to be strong in different sectors and should make for a pretty even race.
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  4. #340
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Solid race from all the front four. Yamaha made some progress and look to be almost there. Rossi I think may have burned up his tires while leading. You could tell he was wanting to see if he could break away and I think that's what did him in. He should have just conserved the tires til the end. I think he would have been more in the fight at the end(probably on the podium). Oh well, it's a good result for Yamaha and I'm sure they are looking to build on it.

    Marquez did to Dovi what Dovi does to Marquez and it was a last corner lunge.

    Overall a subdued race, not much fanfare and everyone made it without much issue. Other than Pedrosa who fell and Crutchlow who dropped back big time. All in all good race and hope this bodes well for Yamaha in the coming races. Finish strong is what I wanted to see out of them. I dare say, they may even bag a win or two by the end of the season if it keeps up like this. I'd say best chance for a Yamaha win would be Phillip Island and maybe Motegi. Sepang is just too big and very horsepower heavy. But, if they can hang with Ducati and Honda in this kind of heat in Thailand, then Sepang won't throw anything new their way. I'd say it's hotter in Thailand than in Malaysia(mainly due to they are racing in Thailand one month earlier).

    Good race from everyone
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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  5. #341

    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    That was a good race, I wonder what opinions on the track will be now that the weekend is done.
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  6. #342
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Whatever they tweaked worked cause I know during the testing Yamaha was dreading coming back to ride here, hope they can carry forward with this momentum and finish strong. I still foresee Marquez sealing the championship next round though as the last couple years as he’s really clear away from both Dovi and Rossi and with four rounds remaining MM would have to DNF and or finish outside the top 10 to lose the title which we all know won’t happen. Rossi is 99 points behind already so yeah. That dude and HRC just have the magic formula and his domination is insane, Dovi turned it on a bit too late unfortunately but well what are you gonna do. Hope they keep giving us these entertaining races at least, top 4 were super close today and a good little scrap. Definitely nice seeing Yamaha up there again battling it out.
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  7. #343
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Quote Originally Posted by blaircsf View Post
    That was a good race, I wonder what opinions on the track will be now that the weekend is done.
    Same here, I know Yamaha were concerned about the long straights but after seeing most of the speeds through the speed traps, Yamaha was right there with everyone else. And that was with some tire spin. So I think Yamaha have a strong motor, and I think that's been the issue. Their engine just eats tires and looks to be in this race they are finally coming to terms with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Whatever they tweaked worked cause I know during the testing Yamaha was dreading coming back to ride here, hope they can carry forward with this momentum and finish strong. I still foresee Marquez sealing the championship next round though as the last couple years as he’s really clear away from both Dovi and Rossi and with four rounds remaining MM would have to DNF and or finish outside the top 10 to lose the title which we all know won’t happen. Rossi is 99 points behind already so yeah. That dude and HRC just have the magic formula and his domination is insane, Dovi turned it on a bit too late unfortunately but well what are you gonna do. Hope they keep giving us these entertaining races at least, top 4 were super close today and a good little scrap. Definitely nice seeing Yamaha up there again battling it out.
    That is my thing. I know Yamaha(Rossi/Vinales) can't/won't win every race. But at least be competitive and be there at the sharp end. I think crossing the line within 3sec to the leader is a good target and lets you know you are there. But that garbage of 25+ seconds behind the leader showed that they as a leading manufacture were having problems. Even if Yamaha doesn't win a race this season, at least show you are there.

    I'm with you, just give Marquez the crown now and get it over with. He's not going to lose this one and move on with the 2019 bikes.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    "So live your life so the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their views, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
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    "Do today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."

    "Respect is earned, not given. Some people have done nothing to earn my respect."






  8. #344
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    How about the theory that Yamaha is the only factory who didn't hire Magneti Marelli spec software engineers to help cheat the software, and that the upcoming spec IMU rule is because the other factories have still been allowed to supply their own IMU 6-axis sensors with their own processing power that could be adding capabilities to the spec software? "In racing if you're not cheating you're not trying." Technically not cheating until the spec IMU rule is enforced.

    I agree that the new track could be leveling the team performances. I remember some testing a long time ago, maybe indycar, where traction control wasn't allowed, and one guy's car got totally undriveable because he cut the track and it messed up engine control that had been programmed for each individual curve, maybe based on the odometer.

  9. #345
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Quote Originally Posted by ock1 View Post
    How about the theory that Yamaha is the only factory who didn't hire Magneti Marelli spec software engineers to help cheat the software, and that the upcoming spec IMU rule is because the other factories have still been allowed to supply their own IMU 6-axis sensors with their own processing power that could be adding capabilities to the spec software? "In racing if you're not cheating you're not trying." Technically not cheating until the spec IMU rule is enforced.

    I agree that the new track could be leveling the team performances. I remember some testing a long time ago, maybe indycar, where traction control wasn't allowed, and one guy's car got totally undriveable because he cut the track and it messed up engine control that had been programmed for each individual curve, maybe based on the odometer.
    It isn’t a theory as they’re the only factory besides I believe KTM who didn’t go out and hire former magneti marelli engineers, it definitely will be interesting to see how the 2019 IMU rule plays out and how it will affect the other factories who have been technically cheating the rule over a technicality which is why it was re-written for next season.
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  10. #346
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Quote Originally Posted by ock1 View Post
    How about the theory that Yamaha is the only factory who didn't hire Magneti Marelli spec software engineers to help cheat the software, and that the upcoming spec IMU rule is because the other factories have still been allowed to supply their own IMU 6-axis sensors with their own processing power that could be adding capabilities to the spec software? "In racing if you're not cheating you're not trying." Technically not cheating until the spec IMU rule is enforced.

    I agree that the new track could be leveling the team performances. I remember some testing a long time ago, maybe indycar, where traction control wasn't allowed, and one guy's car got totally undriveable because he cut the track and it messed up engine control that had been programmed for each individual curve, maybe based on the odometer.
    As MadVlad said, it isn't a theory. It's an open secret that both Honda and Ducati poached employees from Magneti Marelli. Which in 2015 the compulsory software was actually being based off of the then Ducati(open class) software. So I'd say Ducati has probably the best experience with it. Honda just threw a ton of money at it and snagged some people that know how to manipulate it.

    I honestly believe that either Yamaha didn't think they would need help with it, or that they believed everyone else was going to play fair and just deal with the standard ECU like they would. I agree, in racing if you're not cheating, you're not trying. And Honda knows this very well(I have my own 2006 championship theories, one being they had a hit out on Rossi, any Honda rider was to target Rossi, except the factory Repsol riders). Ducati poached engineers because they were the most hungry to get back in the game.

    Suzuki is the one I can't explain other than I believe they have just figured it out on their own. Then again, doesn't surprise me with Suzuki they have a funny way making the best out of a situation. I've always been a huge fan of Suzuki and I believer are the tiny factory that could.

    The track leveling thing I believe is playing a role. The Indy car example makes sense. I remember Crutchlow experienced the same thing a few years back(with the factory software). In that something on his bike went haywire and the bike didn't know where it was at. Back then, they used to map the bikes down to each corner of the track and if the bike deviated from that it really screwed them up. His bike somehow thought it was at a different part of the track and it wouldn't run right and kept giving him issues. In some parts of the track he'd get tons of power, and then on the straight he'd get reduced power.

    I know this happens in Formula 1 as well. They are trying to move away from this kind of technology. But just watch an F1 race. You get real time timing from each car, the exact distance in time they are from the next care. The teams are on the radios constantly telling the drivers what the car is doing. Brake temps, trans temps or issues, engine performance or failures. Yeah, Formula 1 is completely fly by wire and it makes it boring. Sometimes it's fun to watch but most of the time it's a procession.


    P.S.
    I do think next years IMU restrictions will level the playing field somewhat. We may even see Yamaha be at the forefront of it all, as they've been dealing without having the knowledge of tweaking the IMU to the extent that everyone else does.
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    "

    "Do today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."

    "Respect is earned, not given. Some people have done nothing to earn my respect."






  11. #347

    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    I don't think the spec IMU is going to make as big of a difference as some people think. The Yamaha MotoGP project leader has said he doesn't think so either http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/ne...ort-says-tsuya .

    So for Marquez to lock up the championship he can't lose more than 2 points to Dovi or 24 to Rossi. If he wins the race or finishes in front of both it's championship #7, If Dovi wins it moves on. For Marquez to finish behind Dovi and still win it, they have to be 4th or lower. I guess we will see...
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  12. #348
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Well from what I understand in how they explained it, is that because of a technicality in the way that the rule has been written for this season in which has been rewritten for next season to avoid this, teams are technically cheating to achieve the results they have now and while it may not help Yamaha per se but it may hinder other teams because they won’t have the same flexibility to alter it unlike this season. Guess we will see at the end of the day but Honda and Ducati seem to be a step ahead so they may have figured it out by now so they’re ready for next season.
    Last edited by madvlad; Mon Oct 15th, 2018 at 05:59 PM.
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  13. #349
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Quote Originally Posted by blaircsf View Post
    I don't think the spec IMU is going to make as big of a difference as some people think. The Yamaha MotoGP project leader has said he doesn't think so either http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/ne...ort-says-tsuya .

    So for Marquez to lock up the championship he can't lose more than 2 points to Dovi or 24 to Rossi. If he wins the race or finishes in front of both it's championship #7, If Dovi wins it moves on. For Marquez to finish behind Dovi and still win it, they have to be 4th or lower. I guess we will see...
    I think it's a Yes and No. Yes, in that I believe it will finally level things for everyone and no one will be able to bend the rule the way they have this year. No, in that I don't think it's giving huge gains to everyone. If you take into consideration that Yamaha's performance isn't that bad(they really are just a few tenths away at most tracks) but it is enough to keep them off the podium. They are close but they don't have that consistent podium or racing winning pace.

    I also don't think Yamaha would ever reveal if it actually is a big deal for them or not. That's publicly telling your rivals you're struggling, you know why and still can't fix it. They won't ever do that. But you can tell Yamaha are giving their all. I think the guy from WSBK that they have recruited over from their Superbike team may have found something. And sometimes that's all it takes. A fresh set of eyes or a new way of thinking to come up with solutions to the problems. Apparently the guy is somewhat of a guru with ECU stuff, so I'm sure he was enlisted to help figure this out.

    Which is why I agree with MadVlad also. I believe it was a technicality for bending the rules. The big two figured it out and bent the rule to the point of breaking it off. Yamaha, I believe tried to take the high road and just develop the bike with what they were given or allowed to have.

    I agree, I believe Ducati and Honda are ahead. But I also believe that this may take away that little advantage they are having at the moment. Which would be good, it would help bring Yamaha back into the thick of things and with as close as Suzuki is, it will bring them even closer. We also want to see KTM and Aprilia at some point fighting for podiums. So if it helps to bring them in as well, then it's only a good thing.

    I also think that's what manufactures do. Is they figure out ways around stuff. They hire people to do just that, figure out ways around things. With the IMU being locked up, we may see some competitive teams for a year or two. Then we'll start to see a couple manufactures start to pull away again, as they will have figured out ways around things again.

    Happens all the time in Formula 1. They slam F1 will all kinds of restraints and sure as the world, the teams actually go faster. The adage, if there's a will, there's a way... always applies in racing...
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  14. #350
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Man what a nasty crash for Alex Marquez in FP1, man that looked bad. Hope he’s alright
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  15. #351

    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Quote Originally Posted by madvlad View Post
    Man what a nasty crash for Alex Marquez in FP1, man that looked bad. Hope hes alright
    I saw a MotoGP facebook post reporting rider ok. The bike might need a little work though...
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  16. #352
    Gold Member madvlad's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    Glad he’s good, he put up a good fight in moto2 but yeah that bike was beyond toast.... yeah called his brother would wrap it up today for sure, Dovi crumbles just like last year at Valencia. Yamaha’s woes continue
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  17. #353
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    Re: 2018 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

    There it is, Marc Marquez is 2018 World Champion.

    Congrats to him, he earned it.

    As for everyone else, they need to step it up(ahem... Yamaha) if they want to put a stop to this kind of domination. I figured Marquez would seal the deal this weekend, but didn't think Dovi would throw it down the road the way he did. Bummer for Dovi, he just pushed the front a bit too much.

    I will say, a good salvage job for Rossi today. Didn't think the Thailand results would mean much. But he did put in a good effort and was only six seconds off of Marquez. So Yamaha are making some progress. Everyone expected Rossi to be the last Yamaha and he was leading them once again.
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