23' MotoGP/WSBK/MotoAmerica discussion thread **SPOILER ALERT**

[The Black Knight]

2023 - Season starts now!!

Now that MotoGP has concluded for the year, testing starts and let's see what happens in the new year.

Also, this looks like this will be the last post/thread here on the Forum. Not much activity anymore, even Vlad is MIA.

It's too bad, was hoping the forum would come back at some point. It's the way the of world I suppose.

I'll check in from time to time, and least to see if the forum makes it to 2024. If it does, then that marks 20 years for me on this forum.

Time has flown.....

[madvlad]

I'm still around, just been busy studying and doing some other shit but yeah man it'll be interesting to see on Tuesday what the feedback is from the new parts/bikes and all that good shit. This forum will be around for a while longer I'm sure, if it would have gone under, it would have done so years ago. I do miss the old forum days though I will say, had some great interaction with knowledgeable people but not anymore. All you get is sensitive ass keyboard warriors on social media that can't hold a conversation for more than 20 seconds without getting butt hurt about something ...... For now with the season over, back to my dull life and search for meaning haha

[The Black Knight]

I'm still around, just been busy studying and doing some other shit but yeah man it'll be interesting to see on Tuesday what the feedback is from the new parts/bikes and all that good shit. This forum will be around for a while longer I'm sure, if it would have gone under, it would have done so years ago. I do miss the old forum days though I will say, had some great interaction with knowledgeable people but not anymore. All you get is sensitive ass keyboard warriors on social media that can't hold a conversation for more than 20 seconds without getting butt hurt about something ...... For now with the season over, back to my dull life and search for meaning haha

Heard all that. Gone are the days of meaningful discourse and now it's just tweets and nonsense.

It is odd that WSBK is still running as we still have two more rounds of WSBK. Normally, it wraps up before MotoGP, but I guess this year it's running longer. I'm surprised at CNBC, they were advertising WSBK for next weekend on their channel today. Could this finally be we are getting WSBK back to cable channels? Let's hope so, cause I hate watching the chopped up highlights on YouTube for WSBK. So we still have some racing left there.

Also, we still have two more races of Formula 1 left and what a season it has been. Verstappen set the all time win record of 14 wins in a season. Granted, Shumacher did 13 wins in 18 races but Verstappen did equal Vettel's 13 wins in 19 races. So if he wins the next two and gets 16 wins on the year, he will be Shumacher's win percentage, which is a feat in an of itself. Red Bull have been super dominant this year, and surely the budget cap is going to hang over them for a long time to come. But from what I understand if they get the tax credit they are supposed to get, they will only be over the cap by less than $500k. Which considering two other teams went over as well(Aston Martin and Williams but were over the cap for procedural reasons), is not bad for a first year running with a budget cap. Mercedes and Ferrari are yelling that Red Bull got an advantage. It will always be one team yelling about the other. Mercedes have a lot of room to talk, when they used to spend over 450 million, while other teams would barely get to 200 million, back before the budget cap days.

It was good to see him get his 2nd championship and start off possibly a new era of dominance. Which is both good and bad, good in that it's not Mercedes anymore, but bad because it means only one team will dominate again. Ferrari is there, they just need new management, better strategy and more reliability. I don't care if Mercedes ever gets back into the game, they can flounder around mid pack for the rest of their days and it would be glorious. I'd like to see McLaren get back up there, along with Alpine and Aston Martin. Hell even Haas had some really good results this year, just too many crashes and blow ups.

I also think they need to re-vamp the Formula 1 engine allocation for the year. Three engines is just way too little. I'd say allow them 5 engines before a penalty. Every team that needs a engine just takes a new one and accepts the penalties anyways. Maybe give them 5 ICE units, and the rest of the parts still allow for three a piece(turbos, battery engines, etc).

What I think is a real stupid idea is moving away from "tire warmers" in Formula 1. I think either next year or the year after they will go completely without tire warmers.

Oh well, only a few short months before we get all the pre-season testing and first races of the year in March.

[madvlad]

Testing finished today and man not looking great mainly for Honda and Yamaha remains in HP trouble. While Yamaha improved in some other senses from what Fabio and Franky said but definitely not the top speed they were expecting out of the new engine, it only reached 324kpm which is barely but a few more digits than what they usually register, so not sure whatever happened to the so called spaceship rocket they promised to deliver. The declarations from Marquez aren't great at all, he actually finished his testing day about half way through the day and left Valencia because he said that with this Honda they'll never contend and walked off, I highly doubt they'll find anything significant enough from here to the Sepang test in February to make a difference and be ready for the March kickoff at Portugal. The rest of the field is much of the same old, testing odds and bits here and there but for the most part Ducati remained dominant and pretty steady on their testing through the day. Bezecchi got the upgraded 22' and hit the ground running, Luca stayed on the same bike and finished the day on top. Both Rins and Mir I feel bad for, those two are in for a hell of an awakening having signed with HRC man, that bike is just not there. The surprise of the day is Oliveira who finished 4th with his first outing with the Aprilia and looks like he hit the ground running with that thing, hopefully Aprilia can get their shit together with the mistakes that happened under the pressure they were with at the last half of the season which cost them 3rd in the standings as well and 2nd in the Constructors title as well.

We'll see how the WSBK season wraps up, the title can be wrapped up this upcoming round and yes definitely weird to see them finish afterwards but well a bit more racing before going back to boredom so I'll take it haha. I honestly don't follow F1 anymore, it's become such an elitist clown show I actually despise it. Unfortunately MotoGP is becoming that way as well slowly but surely in the name of "entertainment" and I think this upcoming season with two more races on the calendar and the sprint races, some teams/riders are going to snap, they're on edge as is already with the long and demanding schedule and now they prolong it by two more rounds and also add sprint races on Saturdays, I foresee them reverting back by the end of 2023 if not sooner once people snap and they also start to ask for higher salaries given that it's more work now.

[The Black Knight]

Testing finished today and man not looking great mainly for Honda and Yamaha remains in HP trouble. While Yamaha improved in some other senses from what Fabio and Franky said but definitely not the top speed they were expecting out of the new engine, it only reached 324kpm which is barely but a few more digits than what they usually register, so not sure whatever happened to the so called spaceship rocket they promised to deliver. The declarations from Marquez aren't great at all, he actually finished his testing day about half way through the day and left Valencia because he said that with this Honda they'll never contend and walked off, I highly doubt they'll find anything significant enough from here to the Sepang test in February to make a difference and be ready for the March kickoff at Portugal. The rest of the field is much of the same old, testing odds and bits here and there but for the most part Ducati remained dominant and pretty steady on their testing through the day. Bezecchi got the upgraded 22' and hit the ground running, Luca stayed on the same bike and finished the day on top. Both Rins and Mir I feel bad for, those two are in for a hell of an awakening having signed with HRC man, that bike is just not there. The surprise of the day is Oliveira who finished 4th with his first outing with the Aprilia and looks like he hit the ground running with that thing, hopefully Aprilia can get their shit together with the mistakes that happened under the pressure they were with at the last half of the season which cost them 3rd in the standings as well and 2nd in the Constructors title as well.

I caught up on some highlights for testing on YouTube and got some commentary from Crash.net, MotoGP. Everyone looked how they finished the year. No surprises, and the bikes are more evolutions rather than revolutions. I did notice Rins bike looked different from Marquez' and it could be just different fairings being tested. I thought Mir was close enough to Marquez to not feel that bad. I agree though, from what Marquez had to say the bike is not looking to be a contender. Honestly, that's a good thing. I like seeing Honda at the bottom for awhile, they will be back and it will be a matter of time. All teams go through periods of dominance, right now we are in the era of Ducati. Was Honda and Yamaha before that.

I'd like to see KTM and Aprilia come in more and actually contend better for next year. I think we will see them do better, just how much better is left to be seen. With 8 Ducati's on the grid, only so many places in the top 10 for everyone else. You know Marquez will be there, maybe not winning races but for sure top 5's and podiums. I think we will see the factory Ducati team really go at it next season. I think if he can keep it together, Jorge Martin will be a sure threat. Zarco is always there for the most part. Then you've got Miller and Binder on KTM's and if the Aprilia's show up then it's a packed top 10. I agree, Aprilia needs to do more, they sucked in the second half of the season. They just couldn't finish strong.

I think that's why we saw so many riders within the 1 second rule. There were many times I'd look over the FP times and Quali times and see sometimes 15 to 18 riders all within 1 second, and a lot of the time you had 8-10 riders within .5 a second. That's competitive and very jammed at the front. It then becomes who can manage and have better strategy.

We'll see how the WSBK season wraps up, the title can be wrapped up this upcoming round and yes definitely weird to see them finish afterwards but well a bit more racing before going back to boredom so I'll take it haha. I honestly don't follow F1 anymore, it's become such an elitist clown show I actually despise it. Unfortunately MotoGP is becoming that way as well slowly but surely in the name of "entertainment" and I think this upcoming season with two more races on the calendar and the sprint races, some teams/riders are going to snap, they're on edge as is already with the long and demanding schedule and now they prolong it by two more rounds and also add sprint races on Saturdays, I foresee them reverting back by the end of 2023 if not sooner once people snap and they also start to ask for higher salaries given that it's more work now.

I'm hoping Bautista takes it this weekend. Would be nice to see him win one in WSBK. Who knows, he might start a run of championships himself.

MotoGP is doing the same thing as F1 with adding Sprint Races. I think it's too much. Verstappen had a good point when talking about Sprint Races, something to the effect, "for 28-30 laps all you think about is not crashing and hurting the car for the real race." And that's all Sprints are, just fodder for inattentive fans. F1 uses the Sprint races to determine qualifying for the actual Race but they do had out more points this year. It's a chance to gain some points but like it was mentioned, you see a lot of teams in places that they normally aren't because for a Sprint race, everyone put on the Soft slicks and give it hell, because the Soft's can last for that long.

Then it was mentioned in Formula 1, that with all the new extra races(2023 gets 24!) and Sprints added, that some teams may just be forced to sit out due to: trying to stay within budget cap, fatigue from all the travel and to save on wear on the cars. And that sucks, no one wants to see teams drop out due to not wanting to race. I think MotoGP would see the same thing, although their costs aren't as high.

Who knows, just bring on 2023 already!!

[mdub]

Thanks for keeping forum going guys…and merry Xmas

[madvlad]

Thanks for keeping forum going guys…and merry Xmas

Honestly I'm beyond surprised that this forum is still even up bro not sure if whoever hosts it forgot about it or something haha but I do see a ton of people lurking so who knows. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours man

[The Black Knight]

It's what we do, keep the lights on for anyone that cares.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!

[Ted]

Thanks for keeping the lights on. I may not post often, but believe me i read your notes religiously, especially when season is in session.
Happy New Year Everyone!

[madvlad]

Thanks for keeping the lights on. I may not post often, but believe me i read your notes religiously, especially when season is in session.
Happy New Year Everyone!

Glad someone has subscribed to our channel but don't be afraid to chime in man, would be cool to get some more traffic through the forums and sort of revive this place a bit. Happy new year .

This thread will be jumping off soon now that testing is right around the corner again and also the season, should be a great one all across all levels honestly, even MA is looking great now with Beaubier back and also Herrin getting a chance at the V4R Ducati since Petrucci opted to go to WSBK instead and try his luck there, you could tell he was miserable here. Also Gerloff had his first test with the Lenovo BMW team and it's looking promising but we'll see. Even though I'm in Florida now but definitely ready for winter to be over and let's get racing underway!!!

[The Black Knight]

Thanks for keeping the lights on. I may not post often, but believe me i read your notes religiously, especially when season is in session.
Happy New Year Everyone!

[madvlad]

Yamaha unveiled their "new livery" and man you could see the disappointment from the riders and the hell that awaits them for yet another struggling season with no real help or upgrades from the factory to do anything this season. Guess they opted to go for the camo livery since they'll be unseen fighting at the front This picture should say it all...

[~Barn~]

All I know, is that I have (2) seasons for MM93 to win another championship or I owe @Jmetz $50.

LETSGOMARC!!!!!

[The Black Knight]

All I know, is that I have (2) seasons for MM93 to win another championship or I owe @Jmetz $50.

LETSGOMARC!!!!!

That's going to be tough this season. Rumor has it, Marquez is not happy with the 2023 bike and is asking for Honda to make some serious changes. Also, hearing rumblings that Yamaha and Ducati are interested in Marquez. I get why Yamaha would be interested in him, but can't seem to fathom why Ducati want him. He's getting long in the tooth and both Bagnaia and Bastianni are younger, faster and more hungry than Marquez. Not to mention, Mir, Quartararo and a host of other, younger riders are coming and they aren't slowing down.

I read an article the other day that said basically, Marquez' days are somewhat numbered. If he can't come to grips with his injury and the 2023 bike isn't up to snuff. Then it may be the beginning of the end for him. Which I think has always been the view on Marquez in the past. The only thing that will defeat Marquez is Marquez himself.

I think he's still one of the fastest guys out there and hasn't lost much speed. Problem for him now, is the other guys have caught up and actually passed him. This is his 10th season in MotoGP, it was bound to happen.

[madvlad]

All I know, is that I have (2) seasons for MM93 to win another championship or I owe @Jmetz $50.

LETSGOMARC!!!!!

Unless HRC can figure out the front end issues, he won't win it. Ducati is way too strong at this moment and unless HRC brings literal napalm to the Sepang test next month, they're going to struggle just as bad as these last couple of seasons. Even Marc in all his glory couldn't get that thing to work last year being healthy now, he says he has zero front end feel on the bike and for his riding style that is pretty much riding blind, he manages but he won't be able to put that thing at the front like before. Guess we'll see what happens at the Sepang test because not only HRC but Yamaha also needs a miracle.

[madvlad]

WSBK teams and riders head to Jerez for a two day test. This test will be super important for US rider Garrett Gerloff so he can get acquainted with the new BMW bike given his first test was only a wet one and very limited due to crappy weather, so it will be interesting to see how he adjusts to the BMW in the dry. Race season slowly but surely gearing up!

https://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/202...0twoday%20test

[The Black Knight]

WSBK teams and riders head to Jerez for a two day test. This test will be super important for US rider Garrett Gerloff so he can get acquainted with the new BMW bike given his first test was only a wet one and very limited due to crappy weather, so it will be interesting to see how he adjusts to the BMW in the dry. Race season slowly but surely gearing up!

https://www.worldsbk.com/en/news/202...0twoday%20test

Gerloff off the pace at 1.8sec behind. Petrucci is right at 1.0sec and the top three look to resume their battle again this year. Toprak, Rea and Bautista all within .180 of each other. Next closest is Rinaldi at .377 and then a huge gap to Lowes who's .906 off. Geez talk about lack of consistency. Sure it's testing but usually we see closer times in testing. Redding is 1.44sec off the pace and just four tenths ahead of Gerloff. Which tells me it's the bike more than the riders. BMW need to develop that bike, which in turn would help their riders get closer to the front.

Yeah, I'm itching for some racing. This winter has sucked and seems to be dragging out. WSBK is first at the end of February, Formula 1 ramps up first week of March and we have to wait until the end of March for MotoGP. So we've got just under a month until proper racing resumes.

[madvlad]

Gerloff off the pace at 1.8sec behind. Petrucci is right at 1.0sec and the top three look to resume their battle again this year. Toprak, Rea and Bautista all within .180 of each other. Next closest is Rinaldi at .377 and then a huge gap to Lowes who's .906 off. Geez talk about lack of consistency. Sure it's testing but usually we see closer times in testing. Redding is 1.44sec off the pace and just four tenths ahead of Gerloff. Which tells me it's the bike more than the riders. BMW need to develop that bike, which in turn would help their riders get closer to the front.

Yeah, I'm itching for some racing. This winter has sucked and seems to be dragging out. WSBK is first at the end of February, Formula 1 ramps up first week of March and we have to wait until the end of March for MotoGP. So we've got just under a month until proper racing resumes.

First day Gerloff had a decent outing given it was his first actual full dry session on it but yeah it does seem like the BMW is lacking that extra step somehow, even though they went with the sutter swingarm and made a world of difference as we saw Redding get up there in some races but started to tumble down the line. BMW definitely needs to invest in the right areas and not so much aesthetics if they want to stay relevant in this championship. Sure hope Garrett can figure things out as he starts getting seat time on that thing, would suck to see him fall off but after Yamaha turned his back on him, not like he had much choice but to bail. Hopefully BMW is serious and not just using this as a sales tactic since they've been selling S1K's like a mofo these last few years.

Did notice that Petrucci hit the ground running and he could be a threat if they can manage to get a consistent set up under him. I am surprised that Kawasaki kept Lowes around, he's been falling off the pace more and more each season. Also surprised that Ducati stuck with Rinaldi instead of giving Bassani a shot, he was killing it on that satellite V4R and had a tremendous season. Inching slowly but surely to race season and man can't wait!

[madvlad]

WSBK results from test day at Portimao

https://resources.worldsbk.com/newsd...sults-day1.pdf

[The Black Knight]

WSBK results from test day at Portimao

https://resources.worldsbk.com/newsd...sults-day1.pdf

Yeah Bautista is at it again, this time setting lap records and having good long runs. The top four all had good times and runs. Like I say, I think it's going to be the same top three, with a few of the other guys thrown in there for good measure. Would like to see Bautista go back to back titles this year, to some what make up for 2019. Rea I think is the weakest of the top three. Toprak is fast, and dangerous so I think he will be the biggest threat. I think if Bautista can do what he did last year and pull away, then Toprak will have nothing left but to settle. If he's close, then we'll see more of the same, and those super close passes again.

If what I think will happen is, Bautista does a repeat of last year, makes little to no mistakes and lets Rea and Toprak fight it out. Those two hate each other, regardless of what face they put on for the cameras. Bautista just stays fast, then he's got it this year.

Gerloff and Redding will be those hit and miss guys, along with Petrucci. They will be fast but not consistent.

I agree, Lowes is just getting worse. Him and his brother are both good but not good enough. They start having way too many mistakes. Although, Sam seems to be the better rider, even with Alex being a former BSB champion.

[madvlad]

Shakedown test in Sepang underway for 3 days although MotoGP has been very vague about testing information and such as of these last few years, miss the days when they used to cover the tests live with actual feed and timing and such but nothing posted to their website as of yet on that. This is definitely do or die for Yamaha and HRC to decide on set ups and if they even broke through with anything special from the failed tests at Valencia, if they can't bring anything to the table, Ducati will probably walk away with the title again this season.

[The Black Knight]

I thought shakedown tests were always somewhat under the radar. Not official riders and really it was just to get things checked out for the main riders on the next test. Either way should be interesting. Yamaha seem to have found some top speed again, talk about odd. Lose it at one test and then find it at another. Seems like it has to do with software settings, than it would be the actual power the bike makes. Oh well, let's see what it brings come the official tests.

[madvlad]

I thought shakedown tests were always somewhat under the radar. Not official riders and really it was just to get things checked out for the main riders on the next test. Either way should be interesting. Yamaha seem to have found some top speed again, talk about odd. Lose it at one test and then find it at another. Seems like it has to do with software settings, than it would be the actual power the bike makes. Oh well, let's see what it brings come the official tests.

Yeah Quartararo seemed overall satisfied with the first day and does seem like Yamaha finally got serious and they brought all kinds of shit for them to test as well so hope the engine reliability remains as that M1 has been tapped out for a while.

Even the first day of test was very vaguely covered honestly, just the commentators rambling on about speculations and just the usual entertainment side more than the actual technical stuff and such, sure glad Crafar stuck around and missing Matt Birt won't lie, that dude that took his place is absolutely clueless and just plain annoying. Almost a month away from getting underway and can't wait. Few of us old school CSC'ers will be at COTA for the MotoGP race in April, so for anyone planning on going, let us know and come have a beer with us if you'd like!

[The Black Knight]

Yeah Quartararo seemed overall satisfied with the first day and does seem like Yamaha finally got serious and they brought all kinds of shit for them to test as well so hope the engine reliability remains as that M1 has been tapped out for a while.

Even the first day of test was very vaguely covered honestly, just the commentators rambling on about speculations and just the usual entertainment side more than the actual technical stuff and such, sure glad Crafar stuck around and missing Matt Birt won't lie, that dude that took his place is absolutely clueless and just plain annoying. Almost a month away from getting underway and can't wait. Few of us old school CSC'ers will be at COTA for the MotoGP race in April, so for anyone planning on going, let us know and come have a beer with us if you'd like!

Day 2 saw a bit of rain, but times were a bit faster. Jorge Martin looks good and stated, he's ready to race now. I think this year will be a good year, KTM seem to have found something and Aprilia are there. Least on day one they were, day two both Aprilia's were way off the pace.

I will say day 2 saw more tightening of the times. Day 1, I think only the top 11 were within one second of the top. Yesterday, I think it we had the top 17 within one second of the top(I'd have to go back and look). So that's promising. What I'm also looking at are Marquez and Mir's times. Mir is not far off, both days he's manage to stay within .4sec of Marquez and that's pretty good. Rins is doing well on the RCV. I think that's what Honda needed, some better riders(actual race winners) to jump on the bike and start helping with development.

Just going off of this Sepang test, I think we will see Ducati dominate even moreso than last year. Yamaha will be back and I think KTM and Aprilia will be there in the mix for the podium. 2023 is looking good and has promise.