Couple of Track Day Questions

[Roberts]

Ok, so I'm new to Colorado (hello all!) I fell upon this site looking for information on track day club organizers with not much luck. So the first question is how do things work around here? Are there organizations?

From what I gather most tracks run their own days?

Are there any sites to find tracks for bikes, with-in a 10 hour radius of the Denver area (I'll branch out later lol) If no sites would anyone have a list they'd be nice enough to share?

I see most people on here race, though I have thought on going for it I'd rather not start on my R1; so it won't happen for a while.

I'm from NJ, back there there are several clubs so it was pretty easy to get out on the track. I'm sure I'll have more questions but this is a good start.

Any and all positive input would be greatly appreciated, Thanks

[Spiderman]

Check out our main site: CoSportbikeClub.org.
Under "Local Resources", there is a link for "Race Tracks" which list all the local tracks that allow bikes on them (Continental Divide Raceway is now closed, I just haven't updated the page yet). That page also has a link for TrackDaze, but that webiste doesn't appear to be up right now (or anymore?), so I don't know if they're still active.

Another track day organizer you could look into is Track Addix - these guys travel out of state. I've never used them, but have heard good things about them.

The closest (real) track to Denver now is Pueblo, and unless it's booked for an event, it's open track to whoever shows up. It's easy enough to get a group of people together & go down to ride the track (in fact, that very thing was done last Saturday). Nothing formal, but with some people who have experience on the track, and everybody's helpful, so you're bound to find somebody to show you some lines.

There were also a couple of informal schools organized by one of our members, «DaytonaDreamer». They were huge successes, and there was talk about doing the next one at Pueblo, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't been organized yet.

Hope this helps.

[rforsythe]

Tracks within 10 hours...

Pueblo - 2hrs
La Junta - 3 hrs
Hastings, NE - about 6-7 hrs
Mid America (IA) - about 9 hrs
Miller Motorsports Park (UT) - about 9 hrs

And don't forget, Racing 2 Save Lives is at Miller in just 12 weeks!

[Mel]

Check out the MRA web page (www.mra-racing.org). They are the area club level racing group, but another great place to join up with people hitting up a day (most likely is Pueblo). There is also IMI which is (I believe) like with 30 minutes of Denver. It is a cart track, so a lil small, but still something to get a bike out on (though an R1 might be a lil big on that track).

[Roberts]

Thanks for the replies. I have to say i'm a bit bummed out, see, i didn't move here all by choice. I was hoping for more tracks to compensate the choice; maybe i'm reaching too high?

My bike isn't here yet & needs to be repaired (bent shift fork )so the Racing 2 Save Lives is out of the question (maybe, lol) I'd be down for all four days & all sessions for absolute sure otherwise. How long till it fills up? ahh, i can't, fack. Nope, can;t need tires too, damn damn damn.


Depressed

[*KEN*]

I was (am?) kind of bummed by the lack of track day organizations out here too. I searched and searched, when I moved here in august from Pennsylvania, to find nothing. It is A LOT cheaper to run at the track out here, but I don't know when to go. I saw a track day on this site late summer. I guess they do that every once in a while, but it seems to fill up very fast.

I did one of those "just show up" track days at a track that just closed this fall, but I was kind of dissapointed. People just come on / off at will and there were varying skill levels, so I never seemed to hook up with anyone. I actually got bored. I felt like I was just riding along by myself. I'm guessing it's cheaper b/c there weren't any corner workers and I don't thing there was an ambulance either. A double-edged sword was that tech inspection consisted of "Do you promise not to leak any oil?"

People say it's pretty easy to get a group together, but I don't really know anyone. And since I only did one track day last year with some conservative street riding, I'd hate to get in the middle of a group of guys who race every weekend.

It really kind of seems like racing is the only option. $$$

[ebazyl]

Tracks within 10 hours...

Pueblo - 2hrs
La Junta - 3 hrs
Hastings, NE - about 6-7 hrs
Mid America (IA) - about 9 hrs
Miller Motorsports Park (UT) - about 9 hrs

And don't forget, Racing 2 Save Lives is at Miller in just 12 weeks!

also

Sandia (NM) - 7 hours
Arroyo Seco - 10 hours

[Bueller]

We just did a day at Pueblo last Sat. It cost all of $50 for the whole day,(organized day would be 3 times that min.) there is plenty of pavement and quite a few street bikes. There were also a couple of cars but thats life. Some of the racers were doing a little hand holding for the guys who wanted some help. If you don't like getting passed at high speed, then I wouldn't suggest racing as an option.

[JOE!!!!!!]

The track day thing around here is informal, and it's cheap. Maybe a better name for it is test and tune. Formal track days are cool, but necessarily expensive because of the amenities: no cars, sessions (sometimes), emergency crew, cornerworkers, even instructors. The organizers have to rent the track for a day or weekend, pay for all the above stuff, and then make sure they have enough paying riders to cover the costs. If you keep an eye on this website, you'll find someone trying to get a few people together for an informal day at Pueblo. If you're new here, just take the initiative and jump in. We don't bite (but we have been known to suck). Introduce yourself at the track, let us know you're new, and you'll at least get some tips, if not outright on-track instruction. Don't be afraid of racers. Actually, we're afraid of you. But this is not a big deal, you just need to learn a little track etiquette, and all you have to do is ask, "Hi, I'm new here, what do I need to know?" Pueblo is a big track, and this time of year, there won't be many bikes on track at any given time. Also, once the race season starts up, forget about track day weekends on Colorado tracks, they're booked solid with racing.

[*KEN*]

Alright guys, thanks for the tips. Roberts, I didn't mean to hijack your post.

I'm not afraid of getting passed and I'd let faster people have the line, I just don't know how sensative you guys are to a slow guy in front of you.

I hope I can get a few track daysin when it's above 65 degrees w/o having to call in sick to work though!

[Spiderman]

Racing is not the only option...

Most people in this club are very helpful. If you want to hit the track, and want some help, post up asking for somebody to show you the lines and give you some pointers. Give your level of experience and your availability, and I'm sure you'll find somebody who'll be able to come out & help you. Some of the more experienced people are looking for any reason to hit the track.

[Bueller]

I'm not afraid of getting passed and I'd let faster people have the line,

That would be the part Green12 was referring to, about scaring us, don't try to get out of the way, that is when bad things happen. Just ride and let the faster ridder get around you.
This will be one of the pearls of wizdom that will be bestowed upon you for the asking
Last Saturday was 67 deg. in Pueblo

I just don't know how sensative you guys are to a slow guy in front of you.

Believe me on a track like Pueblo it doesn't last long.

[Roberts]

I don't mind hijacking, you got some more info.

I actually like paying the extra for having the some security. If something did happen to me I know I'll be taking care of. This is dangerous enough sport we chose. A big ole F-that for riding on the same track as cars & carts, I went to the track to get away from the dangers of the street; it sounds to me that the only difference between riding a track day and just staying on the street is the tickets. No corner workers, this one bothers me the most YIKES!! especially with cars running at the same time? I've gone down in a blind turn before with my bike laying in the middle of the track & fluids everywhere, if there were no corner worker some one could/would have been dead or really hurt bad. I've gone up hill sweeping right at very high speed with a bike in the middle of the track at the crest, i would have been F'd up. Why even pay $50 when you can ride on the street with the same chances? And then throwing in the mix such diverse skill levels. Now, i've gone from an expert group & went down to beginner groups to tool around with some friends, and they (like I was once) are beginners for a reason; if nothing else, unpredictable. My closing speeds to most beginners alone makes it dangerous, then throw unpredictability to it and you have death waiting to happen. I'll pay the $150 to increase my chance of having fun and being able to wake up the next day.(rant off, sorry )

Though I'm not the fastest guy out there I run with the front pack of most expert groups (again, most non racers but also some racers). All I would need is for some good lines to be pointed out and some people to mess around with. It seems i'm in the wrong state for what I'm looking for. Where I'm from, the biggest Club I ride with even went as far as purchasing air fences for the two tracks that had none to put up in the worst turns. I like that very much. All the corner workers volunteered & were given $100 credit to use toward riding, that was pretty much how I rode at all last year. Although I was track marshal for all the ones I worked so I got a little more, that was sweet, paid for some tires too. They (as most do ) had a top notch schedule, at least 50 scheduled days & they would get some more sometimes. I guess I miss that aspect the most out of NJ, I hated everything else. fack fack fack

I'm even more bummed now, i'll probably conform and ride just the same; fack, but I don't think it will be as fun as what I'm used to.

[Spiderman]

it sounds to me that the only difference between riding a track day and just staying on the street is the tickets.

You forgot about oncoming traffic, particularly the kind that turns left in front of you.

While you're right that an unorganized track day carries some extra risk, going with a group of people can help significantly!

As far as air fence & corner workers, the only place I know of for sure that has them is the MRA (I don't know about Track Addix), and the only way you'd be able to take advantage of the MRA's corner workers & air fence, is to race.

Personally, I would just go with a group of friends and dial it down a notch in the corners that would otherwise have air fence. Lots of fun to be had at a very low cost, but to each their own.

[*KEN*]

I'm not afraid of getting passed and I'd let faster people have the line,

don't try to get out of the way

I just don't know how sensative you guys are to a slow guy in front of you.

Believe me on a track like Pueblo it doesn't last long.

You're right, of course. In fact, I don't even know why I said what I said - as I'd never make an effort to change my line to get out of anyone's way. Oh well, thanks for pointing out my dumbass coment!

[snake226]

If you're after an actual organized trackday, complete with cornerworkers, medical and the like, I would recommend Trackaddix. I think it's the only organization regularly putting on events near here, so it's really the only one to recommend.

At any rate, they do an excellent job with their events, very well run........and they visit some really nice tracks. MAM is definantly worth the drive. This is a link to their events page.

[snake226]

There were also a couple of informal schools organized by one of our members, «DaytonaDreamer». They were huge successes, and there was talk about doing the next one at Pueblo, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't been organized yet.

Not to threadjack but, informal is the key word here. And to use the word "school" is grossly misleading. I am really not trying to come down hard one anyone, especially not Daytona, (who only had the unenviable task of coordinating the track rental and the collection of money) but I feel the format at the CSC SCR trackday elevated the risk factor of a trackday to an unacceptable level.

I am over being bitter about the fact that I spent 3 days in ICU after a rider with no track experience broadsided me on a straightaway, but the HUGE difference in skill levels led to many crashes that day.....some that could could have been avoided had there been any real instruction at the "school." For those that don't know, I was involved in a crash first thing in the A.M. during the second CSC event.

If more events like this are to come, personally, I feel uncomfortable recommending them to anyone unless there are changes made to the format.

[BigE]

snake, sorry to hear about you (or anyone) getting hurt.
Here's my two cents worth.
I've ridden 21 years on the street now (plus another five or so on dirt bikes) and last year was my first time getting on a paved race track. My first day was actually taking race school with the MRA and getting a race license (didn't end up racing though, but that's a different story).
I think it's coming from a dirt background but I think it's up to the more experienced riders to watch out for the inexperienced. I know there's a difference in speed vs dirt bikes but then (hopefully) you're not going to land on someone who's hidden behind a jump.
I talked to Brian Catterson (writer for Motorcyclist) when he was at CDR a tiny bit about "how'd he like the ghetto track vs. the "famous" ones?" and he brought the point that those cost three times (if not more) as much.
I look at going to a "test and tune" day as going out and having fun, not having to worry about speed limits is a very nice bonus too.
If you want to be the fastest guy on the track there are plenty of MRA guys that are willing to race you (and beat you quite soundly, I'd bet too) at an actual race.
I'd rather have a place to go out with friends and speed to your hearts content, work on cornering skills, etc. that doesn't cost $150(+) because it's affordable to do. Just because it's a track (therefore safer than street riding) doesn't mean I don't have to look out for myself.

[Spiderman]

Snake, sorry to hear about your mishap. I couldn't make the second school. I'm not sure how much the two "schools" differed, but I can believe that some more structure would probably be a good thing.

[rforsythe]

Not to threadjack but, informal is the key word here. And to use the word "school" is grossly misleading. I am really not trying to come down hard one anyone, especially not Daytona, (who only had the unenviable task of coordinating the track rental and the collection of money) but I feel the format at the CSC SCR trackday elevated the risk factor of a trackday to an unacceptable level.

I am over being bitter about the fact that I spent 3 days in ICU after a rider with no track experience broadsided me on a straightaway, but the HUGE difference in skill levels led to many crashes that day.....some that could could have been avoided had there been any real instruction at the "school." For those that don't know, I was involved in a crash first thing in the A.M. during the second CSC event.

If more events like this are to come, personally, I feel uncomfortable recommending them to anyone unless there are changes made to the format.

I do feel a bit compelled to lay out another perspective on this...

1) We had a half dozen instructors there at that second event. Only a couple riders actually took advantage of that, even after we offered our time repeatedly. If people claim experience and that they don't need the help, what are we supposed to do? We aren't psychic, nor do we run riders through a lie detector to see if they're just trying to pretend they actually know how to ride.

2) Your crash was very unfortunate, however it was just a case of "wrong place at the wrong time". Both of you were on lines that just didn't work together, and while rider skill could have prevented it by recognizing this ahead of time and taking action, the witness reports I've heard suggest the two of you just came together.

3) We did attempt to split into slow and fast sessions -- again, it's up to the riders to make that distinction for themselves, and not try to show off.

Believe me, if I'm a part of one of these happening again, there will be format changes; any rider in over their head will be "bumped down" no questions asked. However all of what didn't go right on that day is as much the fault of the riders as anyone else (including the crash which put you in the ICU).

[eaheer]

If you like small tracks. IMI out in Erie is where I go to learn the funamentals of track riding. Once I feel confident in that track, I am moving on!

[jplracing]

Not to threadjack but, informal is the key word here. And to use the word "school" is grossly misleading. I am really not trying to come down hard one anyone, especially not Daytona, (who only had the unenviable task of coordinating the track rental and the collection of money) but I feel the format at the CSC SCR trackday elevated the risk factor of a trackday to an unacceptable level.

I am over being bitter about the fact that I spent 3 days in ICU after a rider with no track experience broadsided me on a straightaway, but the HUGE difference in skill levels led to many crashes that day.....some that could could have been avoided had there been any real instruction at the "school." For those that don't know, I was involved in a crash first thing in the A.M. during the second CSC event.

If more events like this are to come, personally, I feel uncomfortable recommending them to anyone unless there are changes made to the format.

I do feel a bit compelled to lay out another perspective on this...

1) We had a half dozen instructors there at that second event. Only a couple riders actually took advantage of that, even after we offered our time repeatedly. If people claim experience and that they don't need the help, what are we supposed to do? We aren't psychic, nor do we run riders through a lie detector to see if they're just trying to pretend they actually know how to ride.

2) Your crash was very unfortunate, however it was just a case of "wrong place at the wrong time". Both of you were on lines that just didn't work together, and while rider skill could have prevented it by recognizing this ahead of time and taking action, the witness reports I've heard suggest the two of you just came together.

3) We did attempt to split into slow and fast sessions -- again, it's up to the riders to make that distinction for themselves, and not try to show off.

Believe me, if I'm a part of one of these happening again, there will be format changes; any rider in over their head will be "bumped down" no questions asked. However all of what didn't go right on that day is as much the fault of the riders as anyone else (including the crash which put you in the ICU).

Ralph I couldn't agree more. I too was one of the people that offered help to the newer track riders. Of the 35-40 people that attended I think 4 people actually asked for help.

With that said if another CSC day is orgainized, I would always be willing to make it safer.

Just my .02

[snake226]

I apologize in advance to those with ADD.

Ralph,

I don't really feel the need to defend my riding.......but to clear things up and lay a foundation for the rest of this post: overtaking riders have the responsibility to make a safe pass, we all know that.

When there is more than enough room on both sides of the rider who is being passed, and that rider does nothing sudden or abrupt with his line, it makes me wonder how the overtaking rider can collide with the rider he is passing with such force. We are not talking about a graze of fairings or handlebars here. It's obvious our lines didn't work, you don't need to remind me of that. The point is, they had no reason NOT to work.

I know very well that there were many instructors at the track who were willing to offer their time and experience. I am not trying to fault them or anyone who "organized" the event. Nor do I think that they had the responsibility to baby sit anyone. I am certainly not arrogant enough to think that there is likely any other reason for two riders going down other than rider error, freak occurrences aside. Contributing factors, be them positive or negative, is another animal however.

That said, it is indisputable that there was a big variance in skill levels that day. For whatever reason, be it riders not taking advantage of the instruction or the lack of sessions in the morning, there was absolutely no structure to the day when my accident happened, which IMHO, contributed to that accident. No structure combined with high variance in skill level is a recipe for disaster. So if a new rider to the area is looking for opinions on trackdays, especially someone who has implied he may be on the conservative side of the fence, I feel compelled to offer my perspective on the CSC trackday/school format, structure or lack thereof.

Could a more structured format to the day have prevented that crash? Who knows. It MIGHT have prevented a rider who felt the need to play hero 4 laps into the day from getting in above his head. It also might have prevented one of the many crashes later in the day as well. Or, everything could have played out the exact same way. I simply feel that the early format, combined with the skill variance, combined with a full track, (a technical one at that) elevated the risk factor significantly, and that was really the whole point of my last post.

You yourself said that you would make changes to a subsequent day given the opportunity. That pretty much says it all. There is room for improvement. Just like last year's R2SL event: the first laps were pretty hairy, changes were made and the rest of the event went off beautifully. There were still crashes; there always will be, but the changes contributed to the safety of everyone involved.

I am not asking for anyone to be psychic, or for lie detectors. But if everything was done perfectly the first time, there would be no reason to make any changes, right? These changes need not be unreasonable, and I know we at least see eye-to-eye on this.

Don't take any of this personal, because I'm not addressing anyone in particular. I'm addressing how the day was organized, or perhaps more accurately, how the format for the day developed. You and the instructors and everyone else, myself included, all contributed to the format. But like I said, I feel uncomfortable recommending that type of a trackday to anyone unless there are changes made to the format, which involves more than just one person stepping up and saying, "we could do this different."