synthetic or regular???

[rybo]

Travis,

I have a spreadsheet that has the cross reference in it.

It looks like the 03 ZX 6 uses the same filters referenced above. Use the longer filters if you can, as they have more filter material in them, but check to make sure you have adequate clearance first. If I remember right the ZX6 filter is on the front of the engine behind the headers, there may be limited clearance there.

Check my earlier post of a full cross reference to filters that will fit your bike.

Scott

[Dr. Joe Siphek]

Thanks Homie!

[Fly boy]

Ben,

You can get Purolator filters at Advance autoparts stores. The one that fits your bike is

Purolator Pure One PL14612. Should be about $6

It is a car filter, but has the correct dimensions to fit your Honda

The supertech is also a fine choice for the purple and pink. The one you are looking for is the ST7317. It is about 1 inch longer than the stock Honda filter, so make sure you have adequate clearance first. The Supertech is about $3

Scott

awesome thanks!!!

and I don't have to worry about clearance.... theres no fairings on 'er

[rybo]

It isn't the fairings where you are likely to have clearance problem. It's the exhaust headers. Make sure you have enough room because draining the oil and then not being able to install the filter sucks (please don't ask me how I know)

[bitterpil]

I have a 2006 VFR800 VTEC and I am interested in this never ending debate of auto vs. cycle, Syn vs dino oil and filters.

My Honda owners manual states 10W-40 SG oil MA etc.
I was thinking and leaning towards doing my own changes Mostly to save the cost of the change not the oil. The faring has to be removed and makes the change take about 45 mins to an hour which makes my oil changes start at $70 + materials.

From what I have been reading, I am leaning toward Shell Rotella-T synthetic 5W-40 and the Purolator PL14610 filter.

Any opinions on this matter from the more experienced oil changers out there would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

[denverbusa]

Travis,
Check my earlier post of a full cross reference to filters that will fit your bike.
Scott

I did a search but wasn't able to locate your full cross reference. My dial up takes for ever to load a topic and was wondering if you could post up the link or look up the correct filter x-ref for an '03 Busa and a '98 duc 916.

Thanks,
Mark

[bitterpil]

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html

I found this one to be helpful.
While it doesn't list the 98 916 it shows 94-97.

The K&N product guide lists the kn-153 filter for your bike. They also show the 94-97 and the 98 as using the same filter. So you should be able to use a filter listed for 94-97 on your 98.

[rybo]

I did a search but wasn't able to locate your full cross reference. My dial up takes for ever to load a topic and was wondering if you could post up the link or look up the correct filter x-ref for an '03 Busa and a '98 duc 916.

I'm sorry to report that to my knowledge the Busa and the Ducati both use filters specific to motorcycles, so there is no automotive cross that works. I have a 2001 748 and have been using either the Ducati filter or the Amsoil filter on it. One advantage the ducati has is that has a dry clutch, so some of that sheer wear on the motor oil is reduced. Most modern ducatis (1993 on) use the same filter, so seeing one from a different model year is not an issue.

Best to you

Scott

p.s. The cross reference that bitterpil posted is the one I've been using as well.

[rybo]

I have a 2006 VFR800 VTEC and I am interested in this never ending debate of auto vs. cycle, Syn vs dino oil and filters.

My Honda owners manual states 10W-40 SG oil MA etc.
I was thinking and leaning towards doing my own changes Mostly to save the cost of the change not the oil. The faring has to be removed and makes the change take about 45 mins to an hour which makes my oil changes start at $70 + materials.

From what I have been reading, I am leaning toward Shell Rotella-T synthetic 5W-40 and the Purolator PL14610 filter.

Any opinions on this matter from the more experienced oil changers out there would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

My recommendation is to go with a slightly heavier oil, especially in the summer in Colorado. I'm a big fan of the Mobil 1 15W50 and many independent tests confirm it to be one of the best motor oils made. There are several other good choices, the rotela you mention is a good pick. Know that as you expand the weight range (ie 5w40 vs. 15W50) the amount of additives that are NOT oil increases. Oil thickens with temperature by having polymer strands added to it that stretch out when they are warm. When cool they coil up. This give the oil a bit of a "grain" and surface tension around the uncoiled strands makes the oil thicker. 5W40 has to thicken by 8X in order to meet the advertised weight where 15W50 thickens by 3.333X. This means that by volume there are less of the polymer strands to be affected by the sheer wear that your clutch and transmission puts on the oil. As a result the 15W50 is likely to have much better viscosity retention during your oil change cycle than the 5W40 will.

Any of the Xreferenced Honda filters will work on your bike, the Purolator you mention is one of the best.

Adding it all up (counting on you doing the labor yourself)

4 QTS Mobil 1 = $25
Purolator filter = $7
Total supplies = $32 - about half of what you pay at the dealer!

The VFR is a great ride, should last forever and be a lot of fun!

Scott

[bitterpil]

Thanks for the info RYBO. During the outage of the site I did some more investigating and found mobil 1 to be what I think is a better choice.
I am glad to hear the Purolator filter as as good as I understood it to be.

You bet, more than half the cost. $70 is just labor. The way I see it is I can spend 45 mins on a weekend morning to change the oil and be done with it or, I can spend what adds up to about $100, make an appointment two weeks in advance, and be with out my bike for an entire day - day and a half.
Dilemma over.

[Fly boy]

another Q for you now..... do you use stands when changing 710, or just have it on the kick stand? my bike leans a little farther then most bike, and I don't have any stands for maintenance. Just a standard floor jack.

[rybo]

It can be done on the side stand, but you will like the clearance of having a swingarm stand much better.

I believe on the F2 the oil drain is on the left side of the oil pan, so that actually works out pretty well for doing it on the sidestand. It's just limited room to work with.

IF you are going to do the oil change on the sidestand make sure your bike is in gear when you park it. It is possible to get "ambitious" while removing the plug and roll the bike off of the sidestand.

[Fly boy]

sounds good, thanks for the tip. Guess I know what I am doing tomorrow night

[Fly boy]

yet another Q for you....

Guy at work has been giving me propaganda on Amsoil. Saying he runs it for like 15k miles in both his vehicles.

Is it work doing on my bike, so I can go much longer or is amsoil just a bunch of hogwash. Both oil and air filteR?

[R1chie]

yet another Q for you....

Guy at work has been giving me propaganda on Amsoil. Saying he runs it for like 15k miles in both his vehicles.

Is it work doing on my bike, so I can go much longer or is amsoil just a bunch of hogwash. Both oil and air filteR?

After seeing how drag bike racers break down their motors after every race and can show the metal to metal wear difference between synthetic and regular oil, I use synthetic (on a high output motor like an R1)

The reason oil turns black is because it suspends partials of carbon. Carbon is a hard substance that causes wear. The oil filter helps to some degree but as soon you see the oil get black stuff in it, it is being contaminated with carbon. It is best to get it out. I know guys that do not have a set mile schedule to change oil. When it starts getting dirty, they change it. I would recommend not allowing your oil to go for 15k miles. Drain it, get the contamination out and put the good stuff back in. (Instead of a lengthy explanation, I have tried to condense this. If you feel the need to look this up do a google search and draw your own conclusions)

[rforsythe]

Some Amsoil products can last even longer than 15K - in a car. In a bike you not only have the usual stuff causing breakdown and contamination, but most bikes are a wet-clutch design, meaning the oil bathes the clutch. In essence as your clutch wears down from normal use, that stuff also goes in the oil. For a street bike, change it at 3K and enjoy a happy motor; for racing, much more often.

As for air filters, 15K is not much at all, just keep it clean or get a washable one (though that is a whole other debate, and some bikes actually perform worse with aftermarket air filters).

[rybo]

I think Amsoil is the top of the heap when it comes to motor oil, but agree wholeheartedly with Ralph and Rich when it comes to change milage in a motorcycle. When the oil gets dirty, change it. Motorcycles are much harder on oil than cars are for a variety of reasons.

As far as filters go the amsoil filter I cut open was better than average. It had quality media in it, but not the quantity of the Purolator or the Mobil 1.

The only reason I don't use Amsoil all the time is that you have to connect with an independent distributor to acquire it. If you have someone nearby I would say it is the oil of choice.

S

[Clarkie]

I know a bunch of racer's that are using the Shell Rotella T (yep the diesel oil) oil in their bikes, me i use the Motorex 10w60 oil

[UglyDogRacing]

The only reason I don't use Amsoil all the time is that you have to connect with an independent distributor to acquire it. If you have someone nearby I would say it is the oil of choice.

S

I am a distributor for Amsoil. If anyone would like to try it, please PM me.

[Teflon]

so what kind of prices are we talking here......

this guy's father I know is an amsoil distributor from wayyyy back like 30 years......

[Fly boy]

1 quart synthetic amsoil = 8.80.
I think I will stick with the mobil 1 and change it more often. I might consider an amsoil air filter though. Thanks again scott.

[bitterpil]

Rybo,

A while back you recommended Mobil1 regular oil in my bike a 15w-50.
When I went to purchase it I found the 10w-40 MXT4 mobil 1 motorcycle oil for $2.00 more. So, here I am back asking instead of changing. WOuld I be better of using the 10w-40 MXT4 since it was there and I don't mind paying the extra $8.

Also about the 15w-50. Would the 50 weight be to heavy for my bike if the manual recommends 40w on the high end of the multigrade?
Or does the synthetic 15W-50 flow like dino 10w-40?

[Lee]

This is probably not going to be a very popular post. It is just my opinion so please take it that way. If you disagree with me, that's okay. I'm not going to debate or argue with you.

After a lot of research on oils and filters (which I will not bore you with), I look at things this way:
> The people that design oils know a lot more than I do on the subject.
> The people that design oil filters know a lot more than I do on the subject.
> The people that designed my bikes know a lot more than I do on the subject.

I paid over $11,000 for each of our motorcycles. I'm not going to try to save a few dollars on oil and filters. I use JASO spec oils and factory oil filters.

It might be possible to prematurely wear out or damage an engine by using the wrong oil or filter. I know that I won't prematurely wear out or damage an engine by using recommended oils and filters.

I use dino oils for the first 4,000 miles, then semi-synthetic or pure synthetic thereafter.

My 2 cents.

Lee

P.S. For Suzuki K5 and K6 owners: There is a way to perform an oil filter change without having to remove the fairing. You will need an oil filter wrench sold by Advance Auto. It looks like a pair of black pliers on steroids and is just the right size to squeeze through a vent on the right side of the fairing. Once the filter has been loosened and unscrewed, careful manipulation will allow it to be removed through the same fairing vent. Installation of the new filter is performed in reverse steps. It saves me a considerable amount of time on an oil change.

[rybo]

Bitterpil,

You won't go wrong with the MX4T, but it is more expensive. Mobil 1 car oil is available in 10W40 and that will work well in your bike too. 15W 50 will not hurt your bike one bit, see some of the explanation below to see why.

Lee, your arguement is valid and you won't really go wrong by following your logic, but remember that Suzuki has a lot to gain by recommending the oil and filter they do. The factory honda filter I cut apart was no better than your standard Fram filter. Paper filter media and relatively cheap internal components. The honda filter is over 6.00 at the shop and the comparable fram, with essentially the same components can be had for about 3.00 at wal mart. These filters are very very cheap to make, and therefore Suzuki, Honda etc make a very large profit on them. The same is true for their motor oil. It is basically no better than any standard grade dino oil, but marked up significantly because their name is on it. Sythetic motorcycle specific oils are even crazier. I've been quoted as much as $15 a quart for a moto specific synthetic that is no better than the $5-6 a quart auto synthetics. Do what you want, again you won't go really wrong, you'll pay more for an inferior product but it will still work fine. (Not standing on any pulpit here, I paid a premium to own a Ducati, which you could argue is an inferior product by many standards. I like it, so I bought it)

If I follow your logic to a natural conclusion can I assume that you have a stock exhaust system on your bike? When the tires wear out do you buy the OEM spec tires to replace them?

Now a quick lesson on motor oil, how and why it works and why using high quality car oil in your bike may work to your advantage.

Motor oil weights are determined at standard temperatures so that when you look at a 10w40 in one brand it essentially is the same weight as 10w40 in any other brand. The low end of the specturum (10) is measured at 0 degrees celcius and the thick end (40) is measured at 100 degrees celcius (32 and 212 respectively)

Multigrade oils work this way: In multigrade oil there are a bunch of polymers that coil up when they are cold. The oil involved is a 10 weight oil and these little balls do not affect that. The oil will never be thicker than 10 weight at 32 degrees F. As the oil warms the polymers stretch out from their coils and the surface tension of the oil around these "fibers" make the oil act thicker than it really is. At 212 F new oil won't be thinner than 40 weight.

There are a number of things that cause oil to go bad. In the case of dino oil it is not truely a consistant product. Molecule size varies and the uneven heating and cooling causes breakdown. In the case of a true synthetic oil all the molecules are exactly the same size so this becomes a non factor. Oil can also become contaminated with carbon, gasoline or water which will cause it to degrade. In your motorcycle the biggest culprits are your clutch and your transmission. These pieces attempt to tear the polymers apart by essentially grinding them into submission.

Once this happens you experience viscosity breakdown, meaning the oil doesn't retain it's high number viscosity. This is bad because of what oil actually does in your engine.

When metal parts come together without oil wear occurs quickly. Oil helps not just by being a slippery surface for the metal parts to run on, but by providing a small "cushion" of oil that seperates the metal parts. Because a liquid is almost impossible to compress the engine or gearbox continues to function as it was designed. The thicker the oil the thicker the cushion between the metal parts.

In colorado in the summer we rarely see 32 F in the mornings, so the difference between a 10W and a 15W during the summer is irrelevant. The difference between the 40 and the 50 weight on the top end, however is just a little extra cushion for your engine when your above the 212 mark. The fan on my bike kicks on at about 220 and it runs around 180-190 when I'm maintaining speed.

I apologize for the long post, but hope that it is useful information. Fear not the car oil, 10W40 or 15W50 will be fine in your bike.

Scott