synthetic or regular???

[Clarkie]

just remember not all car oils are created equal, some car oils will fry your clutch, especially if you have a slipper clutch like a lot of the new generation sport bikes

[R1chie]

Bitterpil,

I paid a premium to own a Ducati, which you could argue is an inferior product by many standards. I like it, so I bought it)

If I follow your logic to a natural conclusion can I assume that you have a stock exhaust system on your bike? When the tires wear out do you buy the OEM spec tires to replace them?
Now a quick lesson on motor oil, how and why it works and why using high quality car oil in your bike may work to your advantage.

The best reason to buy something, because you want it and can afford it. You have to love people who actually use thier brain and can draw thier own conclusions. Good job RYBO.

One thing, do not use motor oils that have friction modifiers or those with the energy conservation sticker on it.

[Clarkie]

One thing, do not use motor oils that have friction modifiers or those with the energy conservation sticker on it.

Ding!

[bitterpil]

Thanks again Rybo for another fine explanination. I am hoping to keep my bike for a while and I like all the good info I find on this and a few other sites. I too paid what is a good chunk of change to me for my bike and I want to take care of it.
I am not happy with the shifting nor the milage of my bike after my fist change which is using the HP4 oil and standard OEM filter. Which is why I am looking for a good alternative. I am going to get this stuff out of my engine soon and get on a good diet of the right products.

[Lee]

Lee, your arguement is valid and you won't really go wrong by following your logic, but remember that Suzuki has a lot to gain by recommending the oil and filter they do. The factory honda filter I cut apart was no better than your standard Fram filter. Paper filter media and relatively cheap internal components. The honda filter is over 6.00 at the shop and the comparable fram, with essentially the same components can be had for about 3.00 at wal mart. These filters are very very cheap to make, and therefore Suzuki, Honda etc make a very large profit on them. The same is true for their motor oil. It is basically no better than any standard grade dino oil, but marked up significantly because their name is on it. Sythetic motorcycle specific oils are even crazier. I've been quoted as much as $15 a quart for a moto specific synthetic that is no better than the $5-6 a quart auto synthetics. Do what you want, again you won't go really wrong, you'll pay more for an inferior product but it will still work fine. (Not standing on any pulpit here, I paid a premium to own a Ducati, which you could argue is an inferior product by many standards. I like it, so I bought it)

If I follow your logic to a natural conclusion can I assume that you have a stock exhaust system on your bike? When the tires wear out do you buy the OEM spec tires to replace them?
Scott

Scott,

My research on oils has lead me in some unexpected directions. Most modern oils are very good, especially the synthetics. But, they are most definitely not equal. I don't use Suzuki or Yamaha oils so they do not make a profit from my purchase of their oils. However, I do buy and use JASO spec oils. I have my own preferences and my reasons for using them, but everyone else does, too, so I won't mention them here.

My research on filters found that one of the most important differences between filters was in the bypass valve mechanisms, not the filter materials. Those are engineered to deliver a predictable behavior when oil bypass is needed. After considerable research, I felt it was safer for my engine to stick with a stock oil filter.

It is possible to get too good a filter. I did that one time with an after market air filter for a car and it caused many problems until I replaced it with a factory filter.

I use a pure synthetic racing oil for the GSXRs that costs $13+ per quart. I've found a way to get it for $6.50 per quart. I use a well known semi-synthetic in the FJR. It costs $6.50 per quart. Why would I use a semi in the FJR when I can get a pure syn racing oil for the same price? Because the FJR's engine is not a racing engine. And a little known fact about pure synthetics is that it is difficult for them to properly suspend additives in solution. Dino oils do not have that problem.

Following my logic to its logical conclusion and extrapolating it to tires and exhausts is incorrect. Those items are other subjects with different considerations.

Lee

[Clarkie]

I don't use Suzuki or Yamaha oils so they do not make a profit from my purchase of their oils.

who do you think makes the Suzuki and Yamaha oils?

[Lee]

I don't think about it.

Lee

[Clarkie]

well maybe you should Yamaha and Suzuki dont 'make' oils, companies like Valvoline do

[Lee]

And Castrol makes Honda Pro oils.

Lee

[rybo]

Thanks again Rybo for another fine explanination. I am hoping to keep my bike for a while and I like all the good info I find on this and a few other sites. I too paid what is a good chunk of change to me for my bike and I want to take care of it.
I am not happy with the shifting nor the milage of my bike after my fist change which is using the HP4 oil and standard OEM filter. Which is why I am looking for a good alternative. I am going to get this stuff out of my engine soon and get on a good diet of the right products.

Many of the issues you are experiencing are "new" issues. The shifting and economy will improve as the engine gets broken in. The engine and gearbox in the VFR are some of the best made in motorcycles and Honda doesn't make much money building them. The margin on the VFR is the smallest in the Honda line. You've made an excellent choice of motorcycles.

Break it in according to the book and as you ride it more you'll get better economy. The oil will likely help with the shifting.

I have a 1994 VFR and get about 45 MPG with it in a normal tank of gas.

Scott

[bitterpil]

["The best reason to buy something, because you want it and can afford it. You have to love people who actually use thir brain and can draw their own conclusions. Good job RYBO."]


Acctually I wasn't going to get it "BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT" I was leaning toward it because instead of 5.50 for auto oil the MXT4 was 7.50 and it was 10W-40 which is what the manual called for. While 10w-40 auto synthetic mobil1 oil might be available elsewhere it is not available where I have been shopping.

I see 0W-40,15w-50, 5w-30 on the shelves and most of it contains friction modifiers. So since the MXT4 was available it was cheeper than Regular "MotortCycle" oil but just a bit more expensive than auto synthetic I was thinking of giving it a try.

I am quite capable of making up my own mind.

My bike is new, I have a warrantee and would like it to be upheld if I need it. Purchasing a JASO rated oil for 1 year (1-2 oil changes) does not seem to be too much to pay. we are talking A possible total of $16.

I have read my owners manual. If you have a Honda, the manual states that a SG JASO MA rated oil is equal to a SJ rated oil.
Most oil on the shelf now is SJ or better.

I can read. I just wanted another opinion.


RYBO,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and concerns. I appreciate it.

[Desmo]

Time for me to throw a twist to this interesting and informative conversation.

I recently purchased a Triumph Speed Triple. The recommended oil for the bike is full synthetic oil made by Mobil 1, it is called Mobil 1 T4 (15w-50). The gallon is about $50 bucks.. and it states “Formulated specifically for Triumphs”

So I’m wondering if anyone has used the Mobil 1 T4 before and what thought are on that oil.


Also the filter I got was a Triumph OEM for $14 bucks… however, I seen a FRAM one in an Auto parts store for $6. For my next oil change should I consider that FRAM or just stick with the OEM?

[bitterpil]

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html
I found this one to be helpful.

It looks like your bike uses a similar filter to the Honda

Purolator Pure One PL14612, about $6.
Mobil M1-108, about $12.
Made by Champion.
Bosch 3300, about $6.
Made by Champion.


If you go through the previous pages you will get a lot of good info. Also the link above is to a site that not only talks about filters but oil and just about anything else.


FRAM = NO

[~Barn~]

I'm personally am a big fan of the 15W-50 Mobil 1 car oil that many of us have talked about over the months. Fully Synth, good price, and a really high quality product. Unless you're trying to make horsepower with your oil, I don't think you can go wrong.

And although some may disagree with me, I am also a big fan of the Scott's stainless oil filter. It's laser-cut from a sheet of aluminum, with tight-spec filtration tolerances.

Totally washable and reusable, for cost effectiveness. And in addition to it's filtration ability, it even has a "pre-filter" magnet that (when it stays in place) actually does draw particles to it.

In the 23 thousand miles I put on my R1 in the 2 years I had it, I never once had any issues. The bike ran like a sewing machine each and every time. Whether it was commuting miles, canyon miles, or hard-reving, high-temp Miller/PPIR/Pueblo/SCR miles.

The one thing you need to make sure of though, is each time you unbolt it, for cleaning, make sure your magnet is there, and not stuck somewhere. I guess they had a tendancy of doing that.

[rybo]

Frank,

I had a triumph and ran the above mentioned 15W50 car oil in it without issue for many years.

As for the filter, I would avoid the fram, but the other filters mentioned above are good filters for less than you are spending on the OEM part. I've never cut apart a triumph filter to know how well they are made, but the ones above are of very good quality.

Scott

[Fly boy]

didn't get my Q answered before... is mobil 1 = to GN4 bike oil? the GN4 is 3.95 a quart up here. Is it worth running one or the other?

[rybo]

Ben,

GN4 is Honda branded dino oil made by castrol. It's a good quality oil.

Comparison wise it's not a synthetic, so it's kinda like comparing apples and oranges. Mobil 1 is a synthetic and is, in my opinion, a better lubricant.

Scott

[Fly boy]

Sounds good, called a few places, and wally world has 15w50 for 4.48 a quart. I am going to change my 710 this weekend so its ready for next weekend at the track!

[Clarkie]

Totally washable and reusable, for cost effectiveness. And in addition to it's filtration ability, it even has a "pre-filter" magnet that (when it stays in place) actually does draw particles to it.

errrr.......they still making those R1 cases from molten steel rather than aliminium like everyone else only a few things that will end up in your oil, aluminium brass or copper

[Brizz]

Bacon grease is WAY better.

[rmeredit]

I use synthetic - hoping to make it last a bit longer.

[livinlife2themax]

i know a lot of people like synthetic....but for certain bikes it aint good... For examplme...my buddies gsxr 750 started leaking from everywhere on the engine. after a couple hundred miles. He used the mobile one stuff too. We changed it back to the good ole fashioned oil and it has yet to leak. So yeah for certain bikes it might be good (even though it coats everything in yoru engine) but might i add that having to change oil on cars after 3000 miles is a myth!!! look it up! it was a marketing thingback in the day... It also depends on how hard you run your engine. The good ole stuff will actually last 5k without a problem...Then if you have a newer vehicle that tells you the amount of life you have left to your oil...you will notice that (depending on how hard you drive) the shit lasts forever. I have 5k on this oil in my suv... and it says that i still have like 40% life left. But anywyas everyone has there own opinion. This is just mine.

[TT5.0]

I was going to use the mobil 1 15w-50 but it is has an API rating of SM. My bike manual says to use an oil with a rating of SF,SG,SH, or SJ. Does this matter? I also looked at the Mobil MXT4, and it runs around $13 a quart at the dealer. Is there a cheaper place to buy this stuff?

[bitterpil]

I was going to use the mobil 1 15w-50 but it is has an API rating of SM. My bike manual says to use an oil with a rating of SF,SG,SH, or SJ. Does this matter? I also looked at the Mobil MXT4, and it runs around $13 a quart at the dealer. Is there a cheaper place to buy this stuff?

SM superscedes the lesser S? rated oils like Sj supperscedes SH and SG etc.
I can't find the 15w-50 oil here in the stores but the MXT4 10w-40 oil runs about 7.90/qt at autozone. What I found is that they keep the motorcycle stuff in storage not out on the floor. there are several on-line sites that cary it for 9.00/qt So DO NOT PAY $13.00/QT for it.