04 gsxr 750 clicking/knocking noise on startup??

[Milenko]

The Issue: Over the last couple weeks I have noticed a weird clicking/knocking noise when I start my bike. It only happens when the bike has sat for a while, like starting it when its cold, (by cold I mean engine temp under 100). But once it gets a little over 100 degrees the clicking goes away, and there is no notice or hint of a problem …

The noise: Kind of hard to describe but if I had to pick a sound that it resembles, it would be that of a lifter sticking on a car. It sounds like its coming from the right side top of the engine (like right around where the frame slider mounts)….

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

[Nick_Ninja]

Cam Chain Tensioner?

[Lee]

Based on the information you gave, I am wondering if oil is not getting to the top right side of the engine.

If you're not already doing it, sit on the bike to start it instead of letting it sit on its side stand. Idle it above 2000 rpms. See if that either eliminates the ticking or reduces its duration. Some engines take a little while to get oil up into the engine. The manual for a Kawasaki Concours I used to have recommended 2 minutes before riding the bike to make sure all engine parts had oil! I can tell you that the engine sure made a LOT of noise for about 60 seconds on a cold start. And this was a new bike with new oil, not a used/older one.

If it were me, I'd take your bike to a qualified mechanic and have him listen to it.

Lee

[Mel]

It sounds like oil not getting up? Concern there would be oil pump potentially being weak or passages being gummed where oil isn't getting to the top as fast as it should be.

IF it were cam chain tensioners (which are notoriously bad on the GSXR) you would continually hear the ticking noise.

[Lee]

GAH! I hate to do this, but I am gonna have to agree with Lee...it sounds like oil not getting up. Concern there would be oil pump potentially being weak or passages being gummed where oil isn't getting to the top as fast as it should be.
IF it were cam chain tensioners (which are notoriously bad on the GSXR) you would continually hear the ticking noise.

Beotch,

Is it that the cam chain tensioners on GSXRs are defective or do they just wear out early?

Lee

[Clarkie]

the cam chain tensioners come in two basic designs, one just uses oil pressure which will bleed down when not being run for a while 'if' the cams are in a certain position, the other type is a ratchet type which uses oil pressure push it out (putting tension on the cam chain) but as it is a ratchet type if cannot back the tension off like the oil only tensioner.

i think the 04 GSXR750 uses the oil only tensioner but i am not positive.

the idea of the manual cam chain tensioner is to reduce the chance of failure of the oil pressure tensioner, the ratchet type tensioners have no such issues. I ( and many AMA racers) have still got the stock Suzuki tensioner in my GSXR1000 race bike and have not had any issues.

as for the ticking you are hearing i wouldnt worry about it, the cam chain does not have the proper tension on it and the clicking is caused by the cams, as long as you warm the bike up without hold the throttle wide open (I have seen this done) you wont cause any damage.

the theory about the right side of the engine not getting any oil when it is on the side stand is pure BS, if that was the case you wouldnt have any oil pressure at all and oil to the top right side of the engine would be the least of your problems The oil lubrication is a 'pressurized' system, think about that for a second Lee

[Lee]

the theory about the right side of the engine not getting any oil when it is on the side stand is pure BS, if that was the case you wouldnt have any oil pressure at all and oil to the top right side of the engine would be the least of your problems The oil lubrication is a 'pressurized' system, think about that for a second Lee

I have thought about it and you've misinterpreted something I've said in the past as well as what I've said in this post.

Depending on ambient temperature, oil flows faster or slower. If cold, oil flows more slowly. On a cold start with the bike leaned over on its side stand, the engine at idle, oil flow is minimal. Warming up a bike that way for an extended period of time could leave the right side of the engine a little deprived of oil until the oil warms up and flows better.

I'm no engine mechanic but my mechanic at RMCP is. Specifically, he warned me not to warm an engine up that way, saying that over time, it caused accelerated wear on the main bearings on the right side of the crank.

Sorry, his professional statements carry more weight with me.

Lee

P.S. And the oil delivery system it is NOT a pressurized system. Hydraulic fluids are essentially incompressible; unlike air, they cannot be compressed. The term "oil pressure" is a misnomer. It is actually a measure of force, a different phenomenon.

[Clarkie]

I have thought about it and you've misinterpreted something I've said in the past as well as what I've said in this post.

Depending on ambient temperature, oil flows faster or slower. If cold, oil flows more slowly. On a cold start with the bike leaned over on its side stand, the engine at idle, oil flow is minimal. Warming up a bike that way for an extended period of time could leave the right side of the engine a little deprived of oil until the oil warms up and flows better.

I'm no engine mechanic but my mechanic at RMCP is. Specifically, he warned me not to warm an engine up that way, saying that over time, it caused accelerated wear on the main bearings on the right side of the crank.

Sorry, his professional statements carry more weight with me.

Lee

P.S. And the oil delivery system it is NOT a pressurized system. Hydraulic fluids are essentially incompressible; unlike air, they cannot be compressed. The term "oil pressure" is a misnomer. It is actually a measure of force, a different phenomenon.

oil pressure and and compressing the oil are two totally different things

but if your RMCP mechanic says that there is no oil pressure in an engine, then i would be very worried about anyone that has their bike worked on by RMCP

let me 'dumb it down' for you, the oil pump doesnt splash oil around the engine lubricating different areas, in fact there is only one (or two depending on the engine design) place in the engine that oil gets splashed but i will let you figure it out. the oil pump 'forces' oil through the complex oil passages/galleries in the engine. If there was no oil pressure you main bearings would last around 5 minutes, if there was no oil pressure there would be no way to pump up the cam chain tensioner

there is a lot of bad and totally false information out there on the internet, I am just trying to help seperate some of the truth from the BS. I know you are influenced by your 'Senior Mechanic' friend at RMCP, i would like to know who he is influenced by as the OEM tech guys would love to laugh over some of his statements propogated through you on the internet

[Lee]

Clarkie,

Wow. You are way off base. And lecturing me about subjects I know about already. And misquoting me. And taking what I've posted out of context.

Hmmm... I've seen this pattern before. So, I'm ending it with this post.

I don't need or want your advice. I'm not interested in your lectures. I'm not interested in debating you.

Clear enough?

Lee

[RayCer]

Can't we all just get along?

Milenko, i think you might have a glitch in your gazectinazoink. I would warm it up and then ride it like you stole it!

[Vance]

Clarkie,

Wow. You are way off base. And lecturing me about subjects I know about already. And misquoting me. And taking what I've posted out of context.

Hmmm... I've seen this pattern before. So, I'm ending it with this post.

I don't need or want your advice. I'm not interested in your lectures. I'm not interested in debating you.

Clear enough?

Lee

Lee --- let me give you a piece of advice here - since you are one of the foremost "thinks the know everything" noobs I've ever seen.

Clarkie is a GOD when it comes to engine work. Not just an Aprilia god... but all over. He is nationally known. His work has been featured in magazines. Somehow I doubt anything you've done on a gixxer or any other bike has been. I'd chill the hell out and consider apologizing if I were you... and think twice if you're going to try to step into the ring with Clarkie on ANY subject dealing with engine works. That'd be like... Ali (that's Clarkie) in his prime vs.... well... some schlub off the street that saw Rocky and thinks they understand boxing.

[Clarkie]

I am not hear to debate anyone or get into a pissing match with you Lee, I am just pointing out there is a LOT of missinformation on the internet, sometimes you have to consider the source that is all

[Lee]

Lee --- let me give you a piece of advice here - since you are one of the foremost "thinks the know everything" noobs I've ever seen.

Clarkie is a GOD when it comes to engine work. Not just an Aprilia god... but all over. He is nationally known. His work has been featured in magazines. Somehow I doubt anything you've done on a gixxer or any other bike has been. I'd chill the hell out and consider apologizing if I were you... and think twice if you're going to try to step into the ring with Clarkie on ANY subject dealing with engine works. That'd be like... Ali (that's Clarkie) in his prime vs.... well... some schlub off the street that saw Rocky and thinks they understand boxing.

Noted.

[Feathered upstart!]

Why are Suzuki people so dumb?

[Lee]

PederAss,

I don't know.
________________

Vance,

Here's an opportunity for you to redeem Clarkie. Read the snippets from Clarkie's post, below, and identify the things Clarkie claimed I said or my favorite mechanic said, and then post what I actually said.

but if your RMCP mechanic says that there is no oil pressure in an engine, then i would be very worried about anyone that has their bike worked on by RMCP

If there was no oil pressure you main bearings would last around 5 minutes...

Clarkie may be an engine god to you. To me, he's got a nice website and he continually misquotes me.

Lee

[Clarkie]

P.S. And the oil delivery system it is NOT a pressurized system.

should we keep going?

the question Lee is did you get this from your 'favorite Senior mechanic at RMCP' or did you come up with it yourself

but then i thought you didnt want to get into a debate or continue this

So, I'm ending it with this post

[Lee]

Vance,

You might be interested in this link; it explains the 4 oil delivery systems for motorcycle engines. My personal favorite is the hand pump used in the early 1900's (My engine is sounding a little noisy; I think I'll give it another squirt of oil. ):

http://www.dansmc.com/4_stroke_oilpump.htm

For most modern motorcycle engines, the trochoidal oil pump is the predominant method of creating oil movement.

Lee

[Clarkie]

that's a great link Lee, I especially enjoyed this part

"Often, there will be restrictors in the oil passages. This is to control the oil pressure, in the engine, before or after the restrictor.

[Feathered upstart!]

[2wheeljunkie]

The Issue: Over the last couple weeks I have noticed a weird clicking/knocking noise when I start my bike. It only happens when the bike has sat for a while, like starting it when its cold, (by cold I mean engine temp under 100). But once it gets a little over 100 degrees the clicking goes away, and there is no notice or hint of a problem …

The noise: Kind of hard to describe but if I had to pick a sound that it resembles, it would be that of a lifter sticking on a car. It sounds like its coming from the right side top of the engine (like right around where the frame slider mounts)….

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Yeah its because you have a SUZUKI!!!!!

[R1chie]

The Issue: Over the last couple weeks I have noticed a weird clicking/knocking noise when I start my bike. It only happens when the bike has sat for a while, like starting it when its cold, (by cold I mean engine temp under 100). But once it gets a little over 100 degrees the clicking goes away, and there is no notice or hint of a problem …

The noise: Kind of hard to describe but if I had to pick a sound that it resembles, it would be that of a lifter sticking on a car. It sounds like its coming from the right side top of the engine (like right around where the frame slider mounts)….

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

I am no expert but it is possible you have a tiny exhaust leak that seals up when the engine warms up. I have heard this can happen and if the engine on cold days takes longer to warm up thus the ticking last longer, this could be a possibility. If this is something that has changed over time then I would have a mechanic check it out.