Pedrosa is an idiot

[BHeth]

Furthermore, the marketing people from Repsol YPF, the Spanish-Argentine petroleum and natural gas company, seem not to care at all what Hayden does. I have been told by Repsol insiders that “Dani is why we are here.”

Ouch! Thanks for posting that. Very interesting stuff.

[sprtbkbabe]

Yeah, if they act like that towards their winning racer, imagine how they act towards someone who isn't! BS

[~Barn~]

Pedrosa did Nick a favor. Maybe it'll shed some light for him, as to how Honda butters their collective bread. Then maybe he'll consider going to a team wherein I can begin to cheer for him.

[rybo]

Pedrosa did Nick a favor. Maybe it'll shed some light for him, as to how Honda butters their collective bread. Then maybe he'll consider going to a team wherein I can begin to cheer for him.

Ilmor?

[~Barn~]

Is that boat racing or something?

[rybo]

It's a natural transition for Nicky....first dirt track, then road courses. Next watercraft and then on to the Red Bull Air Races.

This rumor is WAY more exciting than the one that puts Rossi in F1 in two seasons.

Just remember....you heard it here first!

(mostly because I just made it up)

Scott

[konichd]

Ilmor?

Mckoy and Hayden would be an impressive team to develop the Ilmor! The bike looked good this past weekend and was only 5 seconds off the qualifying pace. Hopefully they can get a full race in at the last race in Spain?

[rybo]

They actually went race distance. I think it's awsome that a non-factory effort was the first to score a point on the 800CC bike.

The bike looked great. I'm hopeful that they can emulate the Roberts effort of the last few weeks. Kenny Jr. has really been showing why he's a former World Champion.

[konichd]

They actually went race distance. I think it's awsome that a non-factory effort was the first to score a point on the 800CC bike.

The bike looked great. I'm hopeful that they can emulate the Roberts effort of the last few weeks. Kenny Jr. has really been showing why he's a former World Champion.

My fault Rybo, they finished 4 laps down (2 to an electrical issue), I meant to say I hope they get a "trouble free" race in to see what the bike is really capable of.

Go McKoy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[~Barn~]

Replay just started on SpeedTV, if anybody wants to watch it again.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I thought that was VERY interesting seeing Mario Illen (sp?) there. Shows you that F1 technology is right around the corner in MotoGP. There is still WAY more power possible with F1 bore/stroke rations and RPM's, given the same volumetric efficiency. VERY interesting. Maybe King Kenny should get Mario to make the engines for his frame......

[rybo]

We'll get to see some of that engine technology emerge as the displacement decreases. In the case of the 990 there certianly is more available, but the tire tech. isn't there to support much more power. Heck I watched Turpin destroy a rear slick in 6 laps on his superbike. He was on a michellin, and while it's not GP technology tire wise, it's not GP technology bike wise either.

I predict that by the end of the next season the 800 will make as much HP as the 990s are now, but they will be much more peaky and harder to ride. I think the riders who are in the field now who have 500 two stroke experience will find themselves at home on the 800.

S

[salsashark]

I happen to be playing hookey from work today to finish up some homework and I'm catching the replay of the race.

IMO Team Honda is to blame for this incident for not having "Team Orders".

It was obvious from the get go that Edwards was there to defend Rossi, Pedrosa should have been doing the same for Hayden. It's a little late in the season for that kind of pissing match.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I happen to be playing hookey from work today to finish up some homework and I'm catching the replay of the race.

IMO Team Honda is to blame for this incident for not having "Team Orders".

It was obvious from the get go that Edwards was there to defend Rossi, Pedrosa should have been doing the same for Hayden. It's a little late in the season for that kind of pissing match.

Earlier in the season, no team orders, but the way the points stand now, I 100% agree with you. Oh well, their loss.

Of note, I REALLY like Nicky, and REALLY want an American to win it, but I'm sure Rossi would have beaten him anyways at the end. Maybe only by a point or 2, but Rossi is just a step (or 3) above everyone else. Now, if Elies(sp) had been able to ride like THAT all season...... I also am WAY more impressed with Dani than Nicky, sad to say. and with Repsol being a Spanish company known to side with Spanish riders.....

[konichd]

Also don't forget the Dani is fighting to finish 3rd in the Championship in his rookie season. Its not like he's battling for 10th, he probably has something in his contract on championship position at years end so you can't blame him for running hard to finish in front of Melandri and Caporossi for 3rd. Edwards is in 8th so he didn't have much to fight for anyhow.

[green_zx7r]

Also don't forget the Dani is fighting to finish 3rd in the Championship in his rookie season. Its not like he's battling for 10th, he probably has something in his contract on championship position at years end so you can't blame him for running hard to finish in front of Melandri and Caporossi for 3rd. Edwards is in 8th so he didn't have much to fight for anyhow.

I don't know if maintaining 3rd place should be more important than winning the championship for the manufacturer.

I think a rider will ultimately get a MUCH higher appraisal regarding their professionalism and maturity by protecting a team mate who's about to win a championship for the manufacturer. Protect a 3rd place finish in the championship and risking a chance of losing the championship for the manufacturer (which is what happened here) will have dire consequences in comparison. Unless you are Sponsor hoe Carlos 'Chucker' Checa.

Bottom line is that there should have been Honda team orders here to make Pedrosa back the f*ck up and protect Nicky.

[~Barn~]

I dunno Yusuke... I'm kind of a zealot in this regard, but my take is you're either out there to compete or you're not. I can appreciate the altruistic point of view that you speak of, but in my opinion, it sounds a bit hard to take seriously, if a person has even an inkling of competitive spirit. Especially at this most highest of levels.

IMO, unless there are direct "You are out there to assist!" instructions from my employer, then I'm out there to challenge; I'm out there to contest! I pay no attention to the "greater good", and wouldn't think twice about the potential praise I might garner from the alternative. No... I go out there and do my job. I do what I was hired to do, and that is fight like hell to be the best racer out there. Now I'm not saying go out and be careless or race like an ass, and for-sure D.P's move was pretty ballsy, and in the end, an unfortunate disaster for all parties involved. But again... if there are no explicit instructions from my employer, then I'll be damned if I consciously compromise my own personal goals and ambitions, just to be Mr. Niceguy and offer a hook-up to a coworker. I just don't honestly think that ability to prepensely dial-down ones inherent competitive nature exists. Especially if I'm fighting for a prestigious finish myself!

I do agree with your bottom line though. If it's a collective concern (read: Honda), then you need to implement orders. Simple.

If it's an individual concern (read: Hayden), then you need to express it to your co-worker and see what you can maybe agree to. Simple.

If none-of-the-above, then race to win or find a job in the pits. Simple.

[Feathered upstart!]

Well put Barn

[~Barn~]

Well put Barn

Thank you.

[green_zx7r]

I dunno Yusuke... I'm kind of a zealot in this regard, but my take is you're either out there to compete or you're not. I can appreciate the altruistic point of view that you speak of, but in my opinion, it sounds a bit hard to take seriously, if a person has even an inkling of competitive spirit. Especially at this most highest of levels.

IMO, unless there are direct "You are out there to assist!" instructions from my employer, then I'm out there to challenge; I'm out there to contest! I pay no attention to the "greater good", and wouldn't think twice about the potential praise I might garner from the alternative. No... I go out there and do my job. I do what I was hired to do, and that is fight like hell to be the best racer out there. Now I'm not saying go out and be careless or race like an ass, and for-sure D.P's move was pretty ballsy, and in the end, an unfortunate disaster for all parties involved. But again... if there are no explicit instructions from my employer, then I'll be damned if I consciously compromise my own personal goals and ambitions, just to be Mr. Niceguy and offer a hook-up to a coworker. I just don't honestly think that ability to prepensely dial-down ones inherent competitive nature exists. Especially if I'm fighting for a prestigious finish myself!

I do agree with your bottom line though. If it's a collective concern (read: Honda), then you need to implement orders. Simple.

If it's an individual concern (read: Hayden), then you need to express it to your co-worker and see what you can maybe agree to. Simple.

If none-of-the-above, then race to win or find a job in the pits. Simple.

You are right Barn. At the end, if there were no team orders, it may not be one's conscious decision to just let your team mate win. In fact, the first rule of racing is to beat your own team mate right? There's the other extreme where the rider HAD team orders, ignored it, passed the team mate and cost the team the championship, and ultimately getting fired. Damn straight that's passion to race. Dumb, but that's fire right there.

No doubt D.P. (which I keep thinking of another meaning to the acronym ) did what you specified. However, I wonder if your theory applies to all riders in the MotoGP paddock. I think there are certain individuals who can afford to go all out and compete, and some who can't. Some riders know their position in the heirarchy, and are happy just to be in the paddock (my opinion of course) and keep their ride. Some of these folks lack the huge political backing of sponsors that certain riders get (cough, Spanish riders, cough). I do feel these riders would make conscious decisions on their own in favor of the team, which would allow them to gain browny points through alternative good (borrowing your words here). Yeah, that's almost pulling down your pants and bending over, but that's part of business.

Some teams don't necessary look for the next Rossi. They some times look for riders that can back up their current favorite or just develop the bike better. A good example is Edwards. I hate to say this, but I don't think he'll be motoGP champ any time in the near future. As much as I root for the guy, he's always going to be the second rider (or first rider of a satellite team) me thinks. I have no clue whether he had team orders last weekend, but he SURE AS HELL knew if he didn't back up Rossi, he would not be welcomed back as his team mate. I do feel it was his conscious decision.

Would D.P. being the next Spanish hope (no pressure there), be classified as this type of rider? You are right, no he wouldn't. However, if you aren't being pulled left and right by teams, I do think riders will make conscious decisions to raise their value. One way is to race the hell out of the season and prove it out right. Another is to use the good team mate approach which does get noticed and will be welcomed by team managers. The last thing you want is having a primadona like Biaggi on your team, colliding into your other rider in front of photographers in practice sessions.


Since I'm bored as hell and can't sleep, here's another topic of discussion to add.

I'm going out on a limb by saying this, but I wonder if D.P. consciously made the decision to duke it out with Nicky, or if he had a lot of pressure/push from the shadows that made him do it. There are tons of conspiracy theories flying around the motorcycle forums right now.

MotoGP is all business and politics compared to WSBK. Not that I would ever know, but from what we hear, you gotta play the game or go SBK. In such a world where politics is everything, I find it extremely odd that Honda never gave team orders in favor of Nicky. We're talking Rossi basically teabagging Honda in 2005 by winning on the M1 in the first year. Honda just got their nutsacks ripped off with a vise. They would surely not want to miss any opportunities to win the title back, especially the last year of the 990cc era.

The only thing I can think of is that Repsol has put some serious pressure on Honda to make sure the Spanish boy is the next star. It's been that way through out the year if you think about it. Every press release from the team has hoisted Pedrosa above Nicky, and it's been painfully obvious who they wanted to take the crown.

What if this political Spanish Alberto Puig/Repsol pressure is what ultimately got to D.P., rather than his will as a rider to race his heart out? In a way, I really do hope you are right that it was D.P.'s decision to go all out with Nicky. That's at least showing passion/fire to win and to be the best rider...

[McVaaahhh]

Well put Barn, and I agree with you to a certain extent, but I still think Pedrosa dropped the ball. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that there are ALWAYS team orders. There may not be an explicit "Protect Nikki" order, but I'm sure there is standing team order to not take both bikes out of the race by making a stupid move.

Repsol may favor Pedrosa but the bottom line of race sponsorship is dollars. Both Honda and Repsol (and all the other team sponsors) are foaming at the mouth for a championship and I can't imagine they are pleased with Pedrose effectively killing their chances at winning a championship. (Championships sell bikes/oil/tires/cola/whatever)

There are quite a few scenarios that could have lead to that crash, but if it was a result of Pedrosa trying to prove something or racing to win then I think he's an idiot. Professional racing is the epitomy of competition, but there is a reason for all of the political B.S. that get's spoken of - there is a shitload of money involved. The bottom line is there IS a team, and there IS a "greater good" in having that team win. Pedrosa shoulda known better and I think this might follow him around for a while. Would you want him on your team if you were in Hayden's position? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I draw some parallels to Terrell Owens. He's a phenomenal athelete, but if nobody wants you on their team all of that talent goes to waste. If T.O. "played by the rules" any team that he was on would be a Super Bowl contender. But, like Pedrosa, his ego can ultimately do more damage to the team than his talent can help.

My $.02...anybody got change?

[King Nothing]

Wow! 4 pages of this B.S., when all we really needed was... Honda sucks. They crashed. It was rad.

[BHeth]

Wow! 4 pages of this B.S., when all we really needed was... Honda sucks. They crashed. It was rad.

[~Barn~]

Hehe... Yeah, I guess you're right. Honda sucks, Hayden just got called "Nikki", and we've had a double-penetration reset.

Yup... This is the Colorado Sportbike Club, alright.