Originally Posted by ~Barn~
Originally Posted by ~Barn~
My Other Ride's a Hoopty
Watch Out for us Gene, We Will See You Again
Well, of COURSE Dani was racing to prove something/win. 1st ALWAYS pays better, and makes him look better. Wouldn't you race to win? He's a professional that from what I've seen, rarely crashes. Team orders would have prevented that scenario, plain and simple. Look at Ferrari or Yamaha. Because of the lack of them, Dani was going for it, and I don't blame him at all. It was a racing incident. He's got HIS career advancement to think about, not Nicky's.Originally Posted by McVaaahhh
P.S. Honduh sucks...
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"...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
-Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
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Tokin' SortaTalian
(Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)
And just to offer a quick (legit) reply. Good points McV and Yusuke. There are a ton of externalities that come into play, no-doubt. Politics, self-preservation in the career of roadracer, respect for sponsors, so-on, so-forth...
Now outta control egos aside (re: the parallel to T.O.), I still find it very hard to believe that a competitive rider would somehow be able to flip that switch that puts him in a mode of “I better rethink this?”, and concentrate on those external priorities.
A.) It’s the heat of battle.
B.) Team orders are absent.
And most importantly C.) Competitive nature is what got them to this level in the first place.
You can even throw D.) in there, that they are battling for desirable “finishes”. Both race wise, and season wise.
I think the best example I can give, is Colin Edwards. Yusuke pegged him perfectly as being one of those riders who probably won’t be amongst the elite in the years to come, and who was never a real threat this year. Yet in this race, he was was praised for performing many tasks perfectly. Racing hard, protecting a teammate, and competing for a top-spot. Yet look a couple races back! (I forget which location it was), but Colin and Nicky were fighting tooth and nail for the top step on the box. And on the last turn of the last lap, they collided. Colin crashed himself into 13th, and Nicky (despite dirt tracking it) kept it up and went on to win. One hell of a near miss for a potential champ/points-leader, and… well… the crash of Edwards speaks for itself.
Now granted, they aren’t team members, but it’s an example of a rider who is not in “big picture contention”, fighting it out with the current points leader, for a race win. The crash lost “Manufacturer Championship” points for Yamaha, and it could have very well crashed both riders out. But it’s just lends to my thought of how competitors can’t turn that shit off. It’s their personality; Their makeup.
Anyway… not to beat it into the ground, but D.P’s move was totally gutsy, and definitely not in keeping with the “Preserve The Greater Good” train of thought. In hind-sight, it wasn’t even a smart idea. Not only because of the Honda-Disaster, but for his personal standing in the series. But in the end, I understand why this stuff happens. It doesn’t help matters either, that Nicky threw a I’m-going-to-make-this-stick pass on D.P. on the previous lap either.
Anybody think that move was absolutely necessary?
Anybody think that move maybe reinforced some pre-existing competitiveness?
I just don’t think that what we’re talking about here, crosses these guys minds when they are out there fighting. And I also don’t think "fighting" is over-stating it, either. They are highly driven men, fighting (first and foremost), for a personal cause, and it’s hard to step out of that, at any age. Especially for what amounts to 20some year old kids. The absence of team orders does kind of baffle me, but it is what it is.
And that being said, the only idiots in this situation are the brass at HRC, that didn’t take into consideration the mindset of these young men, and address it for them. I can’t fault Dani for competing, and I can’t fault Nicky for not approaching D.P. himself, pre-race. They’re both amazing talents, and I’m sure amazingly nice guys, but 25 year old kids just don’t think of that stuff. At least may not until it hits home.
Last edited by ~Barn~; Wed Oct 18th, 2006 at 10:25 AM.
~Brandon~
Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
(720) 935-6438
I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
Melissa Holbrook Pierson
Even at that, Colin crashed, picked up the bike AND finished in the points. Any way you cut it he's a serious competitor.Originally Posted by ~Barn~
Do I think Edwards will be Moto GP world champion? No. That being said, his racing is at a level that justifies him being in the chase.
Hell yeah he should ride hard and try and win, but my point was more that your career advancement can be halted quite quickly if you're such an ass that nobody wants to work with you.Originally Posted by CYCLE_MONKEY
Take the scenerio that at the last lap Rossi is leading, Pedrosa second and Hayden third. Does Pedrosa let him by? What if it were the last race and letting him by would win Hayden the championship while not letting him by would hand the championship to Rossi? Would team "orders" have changed? Would Pedrosa have just "done the right thing" for the team/Hayden? Shit, who knows.
I've seen a lot of negativity towards Hayden and Honda which leads me to wonder if this thread would have been different if it were Edwards that had taken out Rossi? I would bet that a lot of folks would change their views of what happened and bash the hell out of Edwards.
Personally I could give shit about what bikes they were on. Although I ride a Honda I have no allegiance to Honda. (I've owned two Hondas and two Yamahas, and for cars I've owned 1 Dodge, 1 Ford, 2 Chevy's, and 2 Nissans) I'll buy whatever suits me at the time, as I see no loyalty coming from the manufacturer to me. I don't see a post from Honda Inc. that says McVaaahhh rules and all others suck.
'02 RC-51 - Street
'05 Pitster Pro 125 - Pitbike madness
Be polite. Be professional. But be prepared to kill everyone you meet.
"Motorcycles tell us a more useful truth: we are small and exposed, and probably moving too fast for our own good, but that's no reason not to enjoy every minute of the ride."
~Dave Karlotski
Dear CSC,
We just wanted to tell all the members that McVaaahhh rules and all others suck.
Thank you,
Sincerely, Honduh Inc.
Well, I'm not really negative about Nicky, hey, he's a great guy and good racer, but maybe not a GREAT racer. I just said I was underwhelmed by him over the years. It took him how many years to get to the points lead, and that mostly because of misfortune to Rossi and Capirossi. Look what Dani is doing his first year comparatively.
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"...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
-Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
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Tokin' SortaTalian
(Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)
Don't you mean Tommy Hayden? Bwahahahhahahahaha...
Sorry.
~Brandon~
Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
(720) 935-6438
I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
Melissa Holbrook Pierson
See, look, I know I'm homophobic, but not about gay guys. They don't bother me at all. It's straight guys who don't know their gay... they fuck my shit right up
Fuckin-A right.Originally Posted by CYCLE_MONKEY
'02 RC-51 - Street
'05 Pitster Pro 125 - Pitbike madness
Be polite. Be professional. But be prepared to kill everyone you meet.
"Motorcycles tell us a more useful truth: we are small and exposed, and probably moving too fast for our own good, but that's no reason not to enjoy every minute of the ride."
~Dave Karlotski
Yeah, like I said, all you friggin' white people look the same to me!Originally Posted by ~Barn~
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"...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
-Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
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Tokin' SortaTalian
(Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)
I enjoyed the discussions very much McVaaaahh, RYBO, and Barn. Probably one of the more enjoyable threads (for me at least) on this board in my opinion!
SO, are we or are we not getting together to watch the final race at Valencia? I could provide, but I've got a new born that would make any MotoGP bike sound like a street bike, and TV will be hard to hear.
Anybody have hook ups at sports bars where we can go watch?
Yusuke (U-skay)
2002 WSBK Eric Bostrom Monza Wild Card Replica ZX-7R
2006 Track prepped ZX-6R
Always and forever will be a Kawasaki rider.
Come down to Jillians....they will have it playing on a couple TV's at a time there.Originally Posted by green_zx7r
Asshole Nazi devil moderator out to get each and every one of you
_____________________
Love Always Gene
I'll give Mark a call and see if we can set up something official at Jillians. I'll post up a new thread with the details (assuming it comes together).
Bob <------ Asshole Nazi devil moderator out to get each and every one of you - 2002 Yamaha R1 (92K+ miles... bought new) ---------------------------------------->
- 2015 Yamaha Bolt C-Spec (Cafe Racer)
- 2004 Yamaha R6 (racebike)
- 2006 Yamaha R1 (racebike)R.I.P. 502 ~ Everything works out in the end. If it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end.
After Dean's party, I'm thinking I won't even be awake. VCR, here I come!
If I am awake though, then I'm watching this where I lay.
~Brandon~
Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
(720) 935-6438
I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
Melissa Holbrook Pierson
Dude, get a DVR!
See, look, I know I'm homophobic, but not about gay guys. They don't bother me at all. It's straight guys who don't know their gay... they fuck my shit right up
Thanks Mel and Bob, I'll plan on being there! Hopefully we can get something official going!Originally Posted by Spiderman
Yusuke (U-skay)
2002 WSBK Eric Bostrom Monza Wild Card Replica ZX-7R
2006 Track prepped ZX-6R
Always and forever will be a Kawasaki rider.
I dunno man. I dig the technology of DVR's and what they can do, but I love my VCR. It's never let me down. I can record any and everything I want. When the ocassion arises, I can record 1 thing while I watch another, and most importantly, the VHS tapes are portable. (Ask Bob how handy that feature is!)Originally Posted by Rory Breaker
Heck... that's something DVR's can't even offer in-and-of-themselves.
But yeah... DVRs are dope technology. Until the day where I am somehow limited or inconvenienced by my VHS though, I just don't need one. Certainly not for the $10/month that Comcast quotes on it's site.
~Brandon~
Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
(720) 935-6438
I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
Melissa Holbrook Pierson
regardless of how his "Greatness", how ever someone chooses to define, he made it this far to be in top contention for the championship somehow. As long as he's doesn't bribe his body guard to bust Rossi's knees before Valencia(T. Harding/N. Kerrigan) or have Dani ram his bike into Rossi on the final laps of the race (P. Tracy/Alex tagliani, then Sebastien Bourdais). LoL, I'm sure someone gets the idea, lol. May not be the greatest, but great "enough" to make it this far.Originally Posted by CYCLE_MONKEY
True (and thanks again). We finally got Dish installed (only option at the condo complex we live in) and opted for a DVR - let me tell you, they rock - and the way we have it set up right now, I can record anything from the DVR onto VHS if I need to make it portable.Originally Posted by ~Barn~
Bob <------ Asshole Nazi devil moderator out to get each and every one of you - 2002 Yamaha R1 (92K+ miles... bought new) ---------------------------------------->
- 2015 Yamaha Bolt C-Spec (Cafe Racer)
- 2004 Yamaha R6 (racebike)
- 2006 Yamaha R1 (racebike)R.I.P. 502 ~ Everything works out in the end. If it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end.
I'd be down for that, but I will be in Florida for a little vaca.Originally Posted by green_zx7r
'02 RC-51 - Street
'05 Pitster Pro 125 - Pitbike madness
Be polite. Be professional. But be prepared to kill everyone you meet.
"Motorcycles tell us a more useful truth: we are small and exposed, and probably moving too fast for our own good, but that's no reason not to enjoy every minute of the ride."
~Dave Karlotski
So is there anything planed for sunday ?
I plan on being remarkably hungover.Originally Posted by N1KSS1KS1x
~Brandon~
Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory - "Gemma"
MV Agusta F3 800 - "Amy Lou"
Rattan Fat Bear Plus - "Lynda"
(720) 935-6438
I rarely think of motorcycles without a little yearning. They are about moving, and humans, I think, yearn to move – it’s in our cells, in our desires. We quiet our babies with cyclic movement, and we quiet ourselves by going.
Melissa Holbrook Pierson
I spoke to Mark over at Jillians, and he said he would try to get us a room to watch the race (can't have it at the bar because they're going to be busy with the NFL big ticket or something). Still waiting to hear back from him. He was supposed to call me Monday. I left him a message Monday evening, but didn't hear back from him Tuesday. I'll try calling again Wednesday. As soon as I know for sure, I'll post something up.
Bob <------ Asshole Nazi devil moderator out to get each and every one of you - 2002 Yamaha R1 (92K+ miles... bought new) ---------------------------------------->
- 2015 Yamaha Bolt C-Spec (Cafe Racer)
- 2004 Yamaha R6 (racebike)
- 2006 Yamaha R1 (racebike)R.I.P. 502 ~ Everything works out in the end. If it hasn't worked out, it isn't the end.