speed limit for bikes

[pilot]

isn't there a place in germany that is like this?

I agree. I want to go faster and I can but increasing closing speeds between vehicles of different types is a recipe for dead bikers.

Why can't some forward thinking mountain towns or county embrace the motorcycle culture and convert existing loops of road to one-way motorcycle only toll roads without speed enforcement. Throw up some restraunts and hotels and create jobs. We are an economic god-send for a lot of the mom-and-pop shops along our favorite routes.

[pilot]

What about instead of a bicycle lane... they have a bike lane? Just add an extra stripe! Problem solved!

good idea, simple solution.

[pilot]

dont want to step on your toes here, but somethings to look at, germany pop-around 90 mil, us is over 300 mil, so basically 3 times as many, also does anyone know how old you have to be to get a drivers license in germany, i know a lot of countries in asia you have to be 18 to get a license, if its the same in germany, then there are more mature drivers on the road, just things to look at.

imo, i think the speed limits are to low to begin with and would raise them another 10mph, in appropriate areas of course, but then thats just means i would be doing 100 down i-25 instead of my norm which is 90, maybe put a speed limit on age groups, i know it would be hard to "police" but maybe it would get some of the scared people off the road.

united states per square mile pop. approx 84 (us census adjusted for 3mil pop). germany = 598/sq mile (nightly business report/pbs). colorado = approx 41/sq mile (us census 2000). calaifornia (lane splitting allowed) 217/per sq mile (us census 2000). San Francisco 16,634/sq mile (us 2000 census). denver county = 3616/sq mile (us census 2000) jefferson county-were we rid a lot, 682/square mile. (us census 2000)

ok, boring data

Germany is the third largest producer of automobiles in the world (exceeded only by Japan and the United States) and a country that takes its driving very seriously. This is understandable when you realize that a German driver’s license costs about $1500-2000, after a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory, and such a license is good for life.


Although the legal driving age is 18, drivers usually must be over 21 (sometimes even older) to rent a car. Austria, Germany, and Switzerland also require an International Driving Permit, which is actually just a translation of the original license (and available from AAA), but car rental agents rarely ask to see it. If, however, you should have a traffic accident or an encounter with the law, it would be desirable to have one.


source = http://www.german-way.com/driving.html

[SXSMITH]

Reality never seens to be responsive to the people who know better.

I agree that there should be higher speed limits for bikes. And you could prove it to anyone with a current well-designed sport bike if you covered the speedometer and told anyone (even law enforcement) to go drive it at a speed you think is quick but safe. I'm sure that would be around 90 mph on highways (or even more). And 20+ even on surface streets in moderate traffic.

I got a ticket outside of Buena Vista a month ago. 76 in a 55. 76 was probably my LOW speed of the day.

FAST doesn't automatically mean unsafe or dangerous. Unless you're in a Jeep Wrangler. F*cker is a handfull at 70mph.

Speed is a relative thing. It would be quite unsafe to be going <118 mph in a jet. The aircraft would return to earth without any further assistance from the pilot.

[daemon]

wow....a topic where noone is blatantly bashing the author.

seriously though. the speed limit is something that has bothered me for quite some time.
there are other thing's that make traffic hell for biker's.
and it is not just us the sportbiker's.
semi-truck driver's-----on their cellphones?????
no offense ladies,but stop putting on your make-up while you are driving.
little to no care by the law enforcement agencies of reported road rage.
c'mon ...someone who blatantly flip's you off and tailgate's you to the point you feel unsafe.
"oh,we can't do anything about it"????

i think we just need a state all to ourselves(for those of us who have experience riding)to show the peep's who say WE are the dangerous ones on the road.

[Bassil Duwaik]

A thought just occurred to me, it would seem impractical to chang all existing speed limit signs (toilet cost 10,000, speed limit sign cost 100,000) but it would be practical of increasing all speeds by 10% by what there marked as.

So if the speed limit is 30 than it would be 33 for bikes 50 than it shold be 55 . If it's 75 than it should be 83 for bikes. I don't think passing a truck by some 20miles differance is a big thing, I can run faster than that

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

I don't think passing a truck by some 20miles differance is a big thing, I can run faster than that

Hey Bassil-

"Current runners already are touching the limits of what can be accomplished with the bodies nature gave them. "We're very close to the edge," says Peter Weyand, an assistant professor at Rice University. He says record-setting sprinters such as Michael Johnson and Donovan Bailey hit top speeds of as much as 27 miles per hour--but only briefly." From: http://www.forbes.com/2004/05/14/cx_...ing_print.html

I'd love to see it Bassil.

[Mental]

A thought just occurred to me, it would seem impractical to chang all existing speed limit signs (toilet cost 10,000, speed limit sign cost 100,000) but it would be practical of increasing all speeds by 10% by what there marked as.

So if the speed limit is 30 than it would be 33 for bikes 50 than it shold be 55 . If it's 75 than it should be 83 for bikes. I don't think passing a truck by some 20miles differance is a big thing, I can run faster than that

Awesome, all I need is a nice math discussion with a Statie on the side of the freeway. "You forgot to carry the one, so you were speeding." I am a product of a Georgia public school education, this is a bad idea.

It's not how fast you are passing the truck. What matters is the difference. You have a rate of closure of 20 MPH. What if you crest a hill and a semi is passing another? Now you're on the binders, but you're good because you have cat-like reflexes, but now, Buffy in her Excursion she just had to have to keep her 3-year old Dakota safe, is also closing at an additional 10 MPH and cannot haul that beast down, assuming she is even paying attention to you (and you know damm well she ain't).
The reality is, you'd probably make it our this scenario, hell you probably already made it out of this scenario just riding around last week, but it sucked didn't it? If you legislate this kind of speed difference into the situation, you are increasing the likely hood and numerical occurrence of this situation. Sooner or later, the house wins.

In both a legal and moral sense, this country treats driving as a right, not the privilege is should be. You have to legislate everything to the bottom denominator. If you are ever in doubt as to the intelligence of that bottom denominator and what you can expect, go to Wal-Mart on the first of the month.

Now, be honest. You want a higher speed limit, not because it's logical, you just want to go faster. Seriously, we all do, that's why we don't ride couches (aka Harleys). When we own up to this, then we are left with two options. We take our chances on the road (which to a degree we all do) or track days. In the end, most folks settle for a mix of both, with the occasional I-should-know-better banzai run thrown in for good measure. This works for most of us. But to expect the government to accommodate our self-perceived superior skills and our vehicles superior capabilities is a bit silly.

[Mecha Hayai]

ok, boring data

Germany is the third largest producer of automobiles in the world (exceeded only by Japan and the United States) and a country that takes its driving very seriously. This is understandable when you realize that a German driver’s license costs about $1500-2000, after a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory, and such a license is good for life.

Ditto for Japanland. (In some places you can't get a license until you have proof you have a place to park a car). Bike licenses are granted on a graduated scale that is based on ccs. In other words, you don't buy a liter bike until you're licensed to ride one. Most bikes in Japan aside from scooters (I don't personally consider 70cc scooters bikes) are 400cc or less. After you get your license (car or bike) you have to put a yellow and green beginner sticker/magnet on the front and rear of your vehicle as a warning to other drivers for the first year. A lot of their bike instructors are ex-racers. All the guys I knew in Japan knew how to ride and drive well.

I've never been a fan of speed limit enforcement. If you're doing something stupid (endangering someone/thing else) then expect a ticket. But, burning up some superslab in Monument Valley at Mach 3 doesn't offend me. Nor does tacking on 10-50 in the tight stuff where/when appropriate.

[Jason ON]

does anyone know how old you have to be to get a drivers license in germany, i know a lot of countries in asia you have to be 18 to get a license, if its the same in germany, then there are more mature drivers on the road, just things to look at.

When I lived in Germany you had to be 18 to have a driver's license. It was also mandatory for everyone to have a year of driving school before being issued a license and their penalties for breaking the rules are waay more harsh than here in the U.S.

For example, you can be--and mostl likely will be--ticketed on the autobahn for going too slow in the left hand lane, or for not changing lanes to let the faster driver pass you.

You will be pulled over for not using your turn signal and ticketed.

It is mandatory to turn your engine off at an intersection with a traffic signal.

Drunk driving results on the loss of your license for life, not temporary.

Hitting a pedestrian results in loss of license for life.

Polizei are allowed to beat the crap out of you for questioning their authority. (happened to a friend for asking why he was being pulled over. The German judge didn't care when he complained.)

Little known fact, there is a speed limit on the autobahn it's roughly 80mph, but most polizei look the other way unless you're doing something stupid like blocking traffic or have USA plates.

[JAFO]

Speed Limits ( SUCK ) Period !

[d3spair]

Well considering I'm German and my uncle is Autobahn Polizei I'll chime in (although off topic):

It is mandatory to turn your engine off at an intersection with a traffic signal.

Not true. There are many train intersections though where it is common practice.

Drunk driving results on the loss of your license for life, not temporary.

Not true.

Hitting a pedestrian results in loss of license for life.

Not true. Although killing people generally lands you in deep shit.

Polizei are allowed to beat the crap out of you for questioning their authority. (happened to a friend for asking why he was being pulled over. The German judge didn't care when he complained.)

Not true, you actually believe this is standard?

Little known fact, there is a speed limit on the autobahn it's roughly 80mph, but most polizei look the other way unless you're doing something stupid like blocking traffic or have USA plates.

Yes in many places the speed limit is 140km/h. However, on most major stretches you will see a sign with the former speed limit and a slash through it. This means go as fast as you would like. Most of the time however heavy traffic and/or construction will keep you confined within a posted speed limit. Also you're right, getting pulled over for speeding is a seldom occurance on the Autobahn. 'Landstrassen' are the same way. They do enforce construction zones and heavy accident zones with speed cameras.

It's also true that it's a giant game of leapfrog, unless you're passing you're as far right as possible. This allows fast cars and motorcycles to enjoy the left lane. Makes driving there scary too though, nothing like a left blinker or a flash of xenon lights from behind to get you out of the Porsche's lane.

---

I think bikes should be exempt from speed limits in the mountains. Not that we follow them anyway, but... Speeding around the city is too dangerous already as it is.

[No-coast-punk]

Having ridden both here and in Cali. extensively I feel comfy saying that I feel un-safe NOT splitting lanes.

You will only get tagged from the sides if you aren't paying attention or doing something very stupid. Getting rear ended can ruin your day though, and there is nothing you can really do to prevent that if you are playing by the rules of cages.

When splitting lanes you also have a better view of the road surface ahead. All those millions of things that cars shrug off but can dump a bike are now in plain view instead of coming from underneath the car ahead of you with no warning.

There are lots of other reasons why... but it's tricky stuff to explain unless you have played the lane splitting game for awhile.

In the 2 weeks I've been back here I've done it in a few times out of reflex because my spidey sense was ticking. I still play by the rules 95% of the time though. If some dumb fat sack of shit pig wants to write me a ticket for it I'll happily fight it. I have no problem with going in front of a judge and saying something along the lines of "I've picked up more miles on various bikes than donuts officer Wiggum has stuffed down his face. I've never put a bike down EVER and I plan to keep it that way. He was too busy wiping the jelly stain off his pants to see X Y Z which would have ruined my streak".

As for the speeding thing. I think graduated speed limits are a HORRIBLE idea. Take driver A and driver B. Driver A is Shamiqua with her 4" painted nails that can't even wrap around the steering wheel of her '85 Honda Accord while yelling into her cell phone. Driver B is somebody with years of on track racing experience out for a spin in the Ferrari. The idea that these two people be held to the same standards of speed is a really awesome way to see highway fatalities increase by some crazy geometric number and congress pass a knee jerk 55 mile per hour national speed limit in response.

Graduate LICENSES on the other hand I would like to see. The basic license can pretty much be the same system as we have in place now. All things considered it's not too bad if we managed to get all the drunks and cell phones off the road. Now for those willing to go through the pain and agony here's where it gets interesting.

You show up at a state run proving ground in the vehicle of your choice. You have to prove a certain level of competency in things like stopping distance, obstacle avoidance, reflexes, etc. This will be a VERY hard test. Somebody without a spot of race experience and properly prepared bike/car won't have a snowballs chance at passing this test. Because let's face it, Most people who like to go fast and brag about how great they are at going fast... suck at it. You pass the test you get a special bright red set of plates in the mail FOR THAT VEHICLE ONLY. To get more red plates you have to go back out in the next vehicle you want red plates for. Having those red plates gives you carte blanche to drive as fast as you want given that you have already proven that you can handle high speeds safely.

Once a year you have to go back out to the proving ground in the vehicle and pass the test all over again. This keeps those that have lost the edge or don't maintain their vehicles from doing dangerous things.

There's a catch, get in an AT FAULT accident or DUI in ANY vehicle and your red plates go bye bye. You can re-apply for red plates again in 5 years.

The cost of all this will be paid for by the applicants themselves. This ensures that the unwashed masses can't really complain about higher registration fees etc. Say half the cost of the red plate license up front when you show up to take the skills test. If you fail that the state keeps the money to pay for upkeep on the track. The other half is due before the plates get mailed.

Personally I wouldn't mind paying $1,000 a year to legally drive/ride the way I do normally when I get bit by the hooligan bug.

Thoughts?

[Bassil Duwaik]

But there has got to be a speed limit. Does 10% increase sound reasonable?

[pauliep]

i miss lane splitting in cali...

[DARK ANGEL]

I agree, no speed limits for bikes, AUTOBAHN ALL THE WAY BABY

[towneh]

here are some observation/considerations....

It is important to remember that the autobahn is also used to transport the armored tank divisions… the tanks are NOT on low-boys…. Yes, that roadway was designed for speed but hitting one of those "heavies" will stop you abruptly...

Likewise, you can really move on the M roads in the UK but there you’ve got to keep on the left-side. No tanks but a fleet of lorries in the roundabouts can be quite unsettling...

I’ve enjoyed lane-splitting on the Californian interstates 8, 5,15, and 80. The cagers are very accommodating for the two-wheeled community. They open a line and let me thru every time.

Speeding has several limitations:
1. ticket/court expenses/mvr consequences
2. traffic volume
3. road conditions
4. weather conditions
5. condition of the motorcycle (tires, luggage, fuel, etc)

ask yourself the question, "do you feel lucky?"

I like no-coast's graduated lic. Driving is a priviledge and you've gotta keep your skills up. I've got annual certs for my CDL and my mom just got pulled from night-driving for vision limitations (78 yrs in a new impala ss).

Again, it is great to be here. last year about this time, i was released from St Tony's Stupid Mistakes Recovery Area (level IV trauma center) with an Apria Healthcare Breathing unit. I hope that I've learned enough about my own limitations. I appreciate all the things that people did for me to help my recovery.
I am here 'cause the gear...

--yellosub commander—
haya henry

[American303]

I agree with pauliep. Definately miss riding on the california highways. But i wouldnt trade it for riding in the mountains.

[livinlife2themax]

Well i will start off with...colorado has the most rude drivers i have ever seen...i have done a lot of traveling and in other states...i.e texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, oklahoma....so on so forth the drivers will let you by (even in cars) i know in Texas i have seen many people pull over onto the shoulder to let you pass.....NOw with that out of the way, and speaking of shoulders...i dont know about yall but i have no problem takin a shoulder during high traffic on the interstate, i know in the summer when it is warm out and just sitting still onthe interstate...my bike starts heating up real fast....like damn near 200...now i know it is very illegal and you still have to watch other people....but it is a lot safer to ride the shoulder than to try to squeeze between cars..

[Mental]

Well i will start off with...colorado has the most rude drivers i have ever seen...i have done a lot of traveling and in other states...i.e texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, oklahoma....

That hasn't been my experince, I have also lived in all the states you mentioned. By far Florida was the most nightmarish scenario I have ever encountered. The Texas thing is true, but only in rural areas. Once you get into Houston, San Antone or DFW, forget it. Head on a swivel, they are trying to kill you. But thats any metro area. I really enjoyed the other drivers in Oklahoma, but like was mentioned ealier, the moutnians win every time. But for the most part, Coloradans are some of the better ones out there.