up-shift w/ out clutch??

[Mother Goose]

i was reading about wheelies and the guy on his write up said not to use the clutch when up-shifting in a wheelie. Does this hurt the bike? or is it better this way? I was also wondering if any of you do what while just riding normal on the street....... normal as in not stunting. Cause when i watch racing on Speed, it doesn't look like that use the clutch too much while up shifting.

[Ytry2]

Originally Posted by iFlyVR6

i was reading about wheelies and the guy on his write up said not to use the clutch when up-shifting in a wheelie. Does this hurt the bike? or is it better this way? I was also wondering if any of you do what while just riding normal on the street....... normal as in not stunting. Cause when i watch racing on Speed, it doesn't look like that use the clutch too much while up shifting.

I dont use the clutch at all on the track to up shift. takes to long. too much work. back off the throttle for a fraction of a second and unload the tranny and make your shift

[yakuza]

The racers on TV typically have a "quickshift" mechanism that cuts the fuel injection for 100 milliseconds or so (adjustable) to take the engine pressure off the transmission and make the shift quick and easy without a clutch. I think these can be found for a few hundred dollars.

On the racetrack I upshift without using the clutch, simply by rolling off the throttle a bit and it will slip right into gear. It makes it easier since I use GP-style shifting and can just put foot pressure on the shift lever, roll back on the throttle a bit, and it slips into gear.

For the street, I mostly used the clutch. And ALWAYS use the clutch when downshifting!!

[Anonymous]

It doesn't hurt the bike unless you do it wrong (and if it doesn't go into gear easily - like you have to force it - then you're doing it wrong). I do it once in a while, and on the R1, it works easier for me when I'm accellerating moderatley hard - just let off the gas and tap it into the next gear. If I'm only cruising around (holding at a certain RPM - not accellerating), then it doesn't want to go into the next gear without the clutch (or accellerating), so I don't force it.

The whole point is to save time (think drag racing) and get into the next gear quicker (thus losing the least amount of momentum).

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by yakuza

And ALWAYS use the clutch when downshifting!!

I have, on a few occasions, downshifted without the clutch, but I wouldn't reccomend it as a method of slowing down quickly, since you have to give gas to match the increased RPMs of the lower gear, which delays the engine-braking effect by a couple of seconds.

[Anonymous]

Downshifting without the clutch will also wear out your gears *quick*. These are not cheap components to replace - read: it would be cheaper to buy a new engine off ebay if you trash your transmission than fix the one you have. Unless you have a lot of disposable income, I really recommend using the clutch when downshifting!

It increases wear a little with upshifts, but if you do it right it's nothing significant and because of the nature of bike trannies, isn't really a big deal.

[BlueDevil]

Im telling U this to save your wallet. If U have no reason to do this .... do NOT do it!!!! If U do it incorrectly (and its very easy to mess up) U will pay some serious cash. I tried to learn that on my last bike and ended up bending my 1st and 2nd shift forks. A repair that will need almost total removal of your engin to fix. Cost at a dealer for repair 1100.00 - 1400.00 USD Dont bother really. The .5 sec it will save U will not win or lose U the race. The bike was given a clutch, use it. Only passing along warnign from personal experience.

[Ytry2]

Originally Posted by BlueDevil

Im telling U this to save your wallet. If U have no reason to do this .... do NOT do it!!!! If U do it incorrectly (and its very easy to mess up) U will pay some serious cash. I tried to learn that on my last bike and ended up bending my 1st and 2nd shift forks. A repair that will need almost total removal of your engin to fix. Cost at a dealer for repair 1100.00 - 1400.00 USD Dont bother really. The .5 sec it will save U will not win or lose U the race. The bike was given a clutch, use it. Only passing along warnign from personal experience.

In drag racing it will

I race the stock ET class at bandimere, since 1994. There were always bikes with air shifters and elec. shifters up there... I complained and lobbied that this was not "stock" to no avail. so for me to beat them I perfected the churchless up shift, in order to stay competitive. I used that style for 7 years, winning countless times. Then one day it happened. Bandimere Outlawed air and elec. shifters.... because they were not stock.
my biggest competition at the time used an air shifter... the next race he ran stock and I KILLED him.. and he gave up.

i have used 4 bikes up there and i have torn all of them down to make a build up. none of them were any worse from normal ware...
clutch plates and steels now that is a different story EBC and stock steels is all i can say * bernett* chewed those up and spit them out

In order to shift churchless I do SUGGEST *very important*
a shift kit from factory.. and not the base model. purchase the top of the line one *on my 9rr it was 150 rolling dentarm*
and make sure all the slack is out of the shift linkage.

make sure your at a high RPM and "unload" the motor
if it does not slip into gear, DO NOT DO IT AGAIN, grab the clutch and do it that way... Be smart...

and I am NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE TO YOU OR YOUR MACHINE

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Ytry2

make sure your at a high RPM and "unload" the motor
if it does not slip into gear, DO NOT DO IT AGAIN, grab the clutch and do it that way... Be smart...

True, true! DON"T TRY AND FORCE IT!!!

[Nick_Ninja]

For those that are more visual learners -- like myself:




And the full article:

http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/shifting.html

[Anonymous]

Thanks nick! There is also a good description (albeit aimed more for the technically-minded) in The Sportbike Performance Handbook - definitely something worth buying at your local Barnes and Noble if you see it.

[CSUAdam]

One important thing you guys left out, make sure you apply pressure to the shift lever prior to rolling off of the gas. Don't try rolling off the gas then trying to shift it into the next gear.