Top Japanese Scientists: Warming Is Not Caused By Human Activity

**CYCLE_MONKEY** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by InlineSIX24

Well.. there was that Coke Bottle cap in the photo..

Hey, the astronauts get thirsty too.....

What you DIDN'T see was the empty Jim Beam bottle!

**puckstr** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by rforsythe

But imagine how much better we'd all be if I could drop the ban hammer on assholes and incompetent pricks!

Then who on the CSC would be left?

**Shea** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Kanabiis

While I disagree with any of these curtails of liberty, they pale in comparison to the effects of the Bush administration.

Yes, taking away a few types of firearms from being sold is an encrochment of the 2nd amendment. But it is interesting to see how people rank thier rights and protest the taking of them, take away something physical from someone and boy do you see protests and cries of anti-christ and whatever else the NRA is saying about Obama.

Property is one of the primary reasons for the foundation of this country. Pursuit of Happiness is property. See the video in my sig line..

But when Bush suspended Hebias Corpus NOBODY protested, not the NRA, not Rush Limbag, not Sean Hanity, Bill O'liely NOBODY. But Hebias Corpus is a thousand times more powerful and important then being able to own an AK-47.. yes, they are both rights, but one of those rights is the basis for our entire judicial system.

When did Bush suspend Habeas Corpus? And I would argue that owning firearms is the basis of liberty. All rights have to be defended, not just the ones you agree with or "don't affect you that much".

I find it interesting that people put more stock in the right to own a certain type of gun, then the right to speech and protest, the right to petition the government for greivance, the right to privacy, for the love of god the right to privacy.

I as well, which is why I don't support the ACLU. They pick and choose the rights that they find acceptable.

The Bush administration evesdropped on private American communications for 6 years unfiltered, unregulated and completley illegaly and nobody cried. He DID those thing, not might, not talked about, not discussed HE DID IT...

And the Obama administration has stated that they are ok with it, will allow it to continue and are blocking rulings to the contrary. So much for change.

I am a gun owner, yes I do not want a gun ban of any kind, but I find it funny that people are spending so much energy fighting a bill that hasn't even been written yet, where the hell is the energy being spent to get the rights ALREADY TAKEN back, anyone, anyone?

Welcome to reality. You voted for change and got more of the same.

Dude, seriously what is with the purposeful misspellings? It only detracts from an otherwise valid argument. Yay, you can manage to put "thug" in Republican, how juvenile.

**TFOGGuys** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kanabiis

Yes, taking away a few types of firearms from being sold is an encrochment of the 2nd amendment. But it is interesting to see how people rank thier rights and protest the taking of them, take away something physical from someone and boy do you see protests and cries of anti-christ and whatever else the NRA is saying about Obama.

But when Bush suspended Hebias Corpus NOBODY protested, not the NRA, not Rush Limbag, not Sean Hanity, Bill O'liely NOBODY. But Hebias Corpus is a thousand times more powerful and important then being able to own an AK-47.. yes, they are both rights, but one of those rights is the basis for our entire judicial system.

The other is the only method for retaining the 1st,4th, and 5th Amendments.

I find it interesting that people put more stock in the right to own a certain type of gun, then the right to speech and protest, the right to petition the government for greivance, the right to privacy, for the love of god the right to privacy.

The right to privacy is interpreted to derive from the 4th Amendment, but is not specifically guaranteed. I agree that it should be absolute and inviolable, but that's not how the Constitution is actually written.

The Bush administration evesdropped on private American communications for 6 years unfiltered, unregulated and completley illegaly and nobody cried. He DID those thing, not might, not talked about, not discussed HE DID IT...

Where were the Rush Limbags and NRA then? I would argue your right to privacy trumps your right to own a *certain* firearm in the scope of Liberties.

I am a gun owner, yes I do not want a gun ban of any kind, but I find it funny that people are spending so much energy fighting a bill that hasn't even been written yet, where the hell is the energy being spent to get the rights ALREADY TAKEN back, anyone, anyone?

HR45 was introduced this session, and has not been killed yet. Eric Holder and President Obama have both come out in favor of disarming the populace.

Why is it that the most important property right anyone talks about is gun property. What about the other property rights you have already lost, immenent domain, the fact that the Bush Admin seized weapons from citizens in New Orleans and some of those weapons have still yet to be returned. Again where was the NRA on that, where was Limbag on that? Oh they were negros with guns, we can't have that now can we.

Lawsuits are still ongoing in the New Orleans situation. I agree that the Bush administration WAY overstepped any authority granted by the Constitution, by way of the Patriot Act. Eminent Domain is also a crock of shit, particularly when applied to give private developers land for commercial purposes (a legacy of Mr. Clinton's Supreme Court, btw).

So no offense TFOG, but if your screaming about little property rights right now, your about 8 years late to the party, Bush took more property rights from you then any gun ban will ever serve to do.

The government, Rethuglicans and Demoncrats are assaulting your liberties, they like to play this partisan game called 'point the finger' so you target your ire and anger twords the other party. For Rethugs its gun rights, for demoncrats its abortion, it keeps both sides crying about little shit, while they steal the things that really matter right from under your nose.

For me, it's get the government out of my fucking life

But hey, its easier to blame the Rethuglicans or Demoncrats for all the problems rather then really changing things. You know why there are 2 parties? Its easier to just write 2 checks......

All the more reason to scrap the current bunch in the next congressional election and start over. Corruption, like an infection, only grows over time.

**DARK ANGEL** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Snowman

Not a good website to get your info from. They beleive 9/11 was an inside job.

it was...

www.zeitgeist.com

**puckstr** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by DARK ANGEL

it was...

www.zeitgeist.com

no doubt sister

**Kanabiis** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 04:05 PM

Gixxer.... the mispellings are on purpose, the new names correctly define who they really are. Call it juvinille, but it accurately represents who these people really are. But again, if you identify yourself more as a Republican or Democrat then as an American then maybe you would take offense to those monikers.

As to suspension of Hebias Corpus, google military commisions act of 2006.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rights...beuscorpus.htm

A little light reading if your so inclined.....

But it appears that you seem to think I am some kind of Obama supporter, which again is typical of partisan supporters... If I talk bad about Bush then I *MUST* be some kind of 'libural'... again a failing of partisan politics, and speaks volumes more of you then me.

I did indeed vote for change, by caucusing and voting for Ron Paul.... you know what they say about people who assume though....

TGFO, I will have to address your points later, as I am heading out to ride now...

**Shea** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by DARK ANGEL

it was...

www.zeitgeist.com

Yeah that web developer has a great site. Has nothing to do with 9-11 theories, but a great site

**puckstr** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 04:08 PM

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11000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000
11111111111111111111110000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000

**Shea** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kanabiis

Gixxer.... the mispellings are on purpose, the new names correctly define who they really are. Call it juvinille, but it accurately represents who these people really are. But again, if you identify yourself more as a Republican or Democrat then as an American then maybe you would take offense to those monikers.

No shit, I know they were on purpose. They make an otherwise decent argument look like a pathetic juvenile rant. I take offense as an American who values intelligent rational discourse over emotional diatribes.

As to suspension of Hebias Corpus, google military commisions act of 2006.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rights...beuscorpus.htm

Habeas Corpus applies to US citizens, not foreign combatants taken on the field of battle. You, obviously disagree with that opinion.

But it appears that you seem to think I am some kind of Obama supporter, which again is typical of partisan supporters... If I talk bad about Bush then I *MUST* be some kind of libural... again a failing of partisan politics, and speaks volumes more of you then me.

I made no such assertion. I talk bad about Bush, but am no Obama supporter. I support freedom, liberty and life free of government intervention ("help").

I did indeed vote for change, by caucusing and voting for Ron Paul.... you know what they say about people who assume though....

Yeah, you're doing a lot of it about me...

**lightspeed** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by CYCLE_MONKEY

In any technical discussion, you will be crushed like a cockroach......go ride.

What an ASSumption of you to make while knowing absolutely nothing about me. This attitude and ego is part of the reason why the planet is going up in smoke....

When your scientists...doctors...engineers etc. begin to wake up to the fact that they are part of the problem, this world may start to make some leeway. The very technology your physicists created in their all knowing intelligence is responsible for much of the problems we face in 2009.

**lightspeed** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gixxerk2

Yea, because your showing so far has been stellar...

Okay, with loons like you making uniformed decisions? I think your professor should have his license to teach suspended for gross incompetence.

So you say that the towers fell in a manner akin to a controlled demolition and therefore this is proof of a sinister government plan to murder civilians? Ok, well this shows that you lack an actually understanding of what happened on September 11 and controlled demolitions in general.

Point of fact is that they looked so similar is because the actual mechanics were similar. Controlled demolition uses the buildings own weight against it by removing key structural supports and letting the building fall in on itself. The fire resulting from thousands of gallons of Jet-A and the structural impact of a 350,000 lb aircraft caused supporting members to fail. This caused the pancake effect of the upper portion to fall onto the lower portion. You call that fake, I call it engineering and science.

I never said I have proof of anything. I said I have formulated my opinions based off of surrounding evidence. You on the other hand are saying you have proof. I have asked for this educated quess you are making to be proven...and I have yet to recieve any proof from you of your stance.

**TFOGGuys** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Gixxerk2

Habeas Corpus applies to US citizens, not foreign combatants taken on the field of battle....

Not to mention terrorists that fight for no flag, and obey no conventions. The Bush administration committed an number of reprehensible acts in the name of "homeland security"(which sounds disturbingly like protecting the Fatherland), but as long as the same people remain in power, it's only likely to get worse. Democrat, Republican....just labels that obscure the truth:Politicians are not about representing the common good, nor are they about protecting the rights of the citizenry. Politicians are motivated by the desire to make enough of their voting constituency believe that they are doing "good" to get reelected, thus enabling them to spend the next term working to get reelected, ad infinitum, until they become well enough connected that they can be the puppeteers instead of the puppets.

Okay...my head is going to explode---anyone got a good kittah pic?

**lightspeed** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by TFOGGuys

Fact: A 747 holds 48,445 gallons of jet fuel (basically kerosene).

A fire fueled by this much kerosene would generate about 6.9 million KJ, enough to raise the ambient temperature in 2 floors of the WTC to over 835 degrees C. At this temperature, the steel used in the towers would lose 80-90 % of it's yield strength.
If the planes had hit several floors higher than they did, the towers most likely would not have collapsed. Either the terrorists got incredibly lucky, or they planned the attacks with significant research and knowledge of the building's construction. They did plan ahead, in that they selected planes that had a capacity fuel load for a cross country flight (bound for Kalifornia).

Have you conducted such an experiment to be certain that the amount of jet fuel not kerosene those planes contained at the time of this incident could in fact cause the steel in the towers to lose enough strength to give way in the manner that we all observed.

If not...your guess as to what happened and how it happened holds no water with me...

**lightspeed** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by CYCLE_MONKEY

Having spent time in the avation industry I can tell you they are not all made of Ti. Further, the difference between high-temp alloys is not so much their ultimate melting point, but the strength curves near the top where the melting point is. Mild steel (as in the buildings) loses much of it's strength as the temp rises, the high-temp metals keep much of their strength until they finally melt. From Matweb:

Material: Melting point:
Ti 2820-2910F
Low Carbon Steel 2250-2790F

And yes, the fire, depending on the configuration, could easily have gotten that hot. I saw a series of pictures once of a motorcycle crash. There was a fire and you could see how progressively the FRAME melted simply from a small gas fire.

So you're basing your guess as to what happened on a motorcycle crash...lol

. And this would suggest that a motorcycle frame is made of the same material used to construct the twin towers...

Elaborate on the configuration of the fire caused by the jets that hit the towers and how said fire reached and sustained temperatures of this magnitude long enough to weaken the beams in exactly the right places in order for the building to collapse on itself the way it did at a velocity of freefall..

Then I'd like you to tell me that you have.....in a controlled environment conducted such an experiment to determine that your explanation is correct.

Then also tell me that you've conducted the same experiment in a non controlled environment where all of the factors present on september 11th existed.

If you can't do this and have not proof of this, your guess as to what happened means nothing more than mine or anyone else who ventures to formulate an opinion as to what happened to bring down those towers.

**dirkterrell** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 06:52 PM

If you can't do this and have not proof of this, your guess as to what happened means nothing more than mine or anyone else who ventures to formulate an opinion as to what happened to bring down those towers.

Well, the NIST published an extremely thorough report on their rather extensive analysis of the collapses. I can't say I've read all 10,000 pages but I read enough to see that they were pretty thorough in their analysis of the various aspects of the collapse. I don't see any violations of "simple physics and chemistry" in their analysis. You claim you do. Please elaborate.

Dirk

**lightspeed** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 07:14 PM

And who funded the NIST to do the so called research? And if you would...can you post a link to this report for all to see b/c your reading their findings and regurgitating and or interpreting the results means absolutely nothing to me.

And, is that paragraph all you can pick out of my statement to debase?? Certainly a person of your stature can do better than this.

**The Black Knight** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Kanabiis

Yes, taking away a few types of firearms from being sold is an encrochment of the 2nd amendment. But it is interesting to see how people rank thier rights and protest the taking of them, take away something physical from someone and boy do you see protests and cries of anti-christ and whatever else the NRA is saying about Obama.

I find it interesting that people put more stock in the right to own a certain type of gun, then the right to speech and protest, the right to petition the government for greivance, the right to privacy, for the love of god the right to privacy.

Where were the Rush Limbags and NRA then? I would argue your right to privacy trumps your right to own a *certain* firearm in the scope of Liberties.

I am a gun owner, yes I do not want a gun ban of any kind, but I find it funny that people are spending so much energy fighting a bill that hasn't even been written yet, where the hell is the energy being spent to get the rights ALREADY TAKEN back, anyone, anyone?

Why is it that the most important property right anyone talks about is gun property. What about the other property rights you have already lost, immenent domain, the fact that the Bush Admin seized weapons from citizens in New Orleans and some of those weapons have still yet to be returned. Again where was the NRA on that, where was Limbag on that? Oh they were negros with guns, we can't have that now can we.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you Kanabiis on what the NRA has done, especially with regards to Katrina and New Orleans. The NRA campaign for everyone who lost their firearms in New Orleans. And is just now finally seeing some action taken with the settling of lawsuits and so forth. For more info go here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318478,00.html
http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/News....aspx?id=11653

Those links show some of what NRA has done for those people affected by Katrina.

It's not that people put more stock in one right over the other. However, if you were to ask me which is the most important right. Well it's the "Right to keep and bear arms." Why?? because with this "Right" I can protect myself from criminals and corruption in government and it's politicians.

I think the reason so many people fight for their Rights to firearms is because it's our last resort and back up plan against a tyrannical government hell bent on submission of it's populace. Sure the right to Freedom of Speech is great. But what happens when no one is listening??? Corruption may not listen to Free Speech, however it will listen to the report of a gun blast.

What I'm trying to get at is our Founding Fathers outlined it that. At least I believe so. In that our First Amendment is the preferred method of choice when dealing with all sorts of opposition and in any situation. But as a back-up to the First Amendment, they gave us the Second Amendment. Why?? because when all else has failed, when all of the talking has been done and when all of the listening has been. If corruption and tyranny still won't give in to reason, it is then the duty of the citizens to restore balance to their country through use of force and force by any means, even if it is deadly force.

It can't be repeated enough by authors and founding fathers of generations long since gone. But that, "an armed man is a citizen. an unarmed man is a subject." And "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

I know as dedicated to freedoms as you are, I don't need to quote more. But those words ring clearly more today then they ever have. I believe we are on the brink of something big. And people by default are feeling it too, and now more then ever we need our Second Amendment to back us up.

When you mention that "Right to Privacy" trumps "Right to bear arms" is a seriously scary statement. How can you have this Right to Privacy when you can't fight for it?? When all you are left with is you running off at the mouth to politicians whom have turned a def ear because they no possess all means of weaponry and you possess nothing?? Sure the freedom to speak out is strong but if not backed up by right to bear arms means nothing.

I believe the whole Bill of Rights is held together solely by the Second Amendment. It's the last line of defense in our other freedoms. If it falls and is done away with, then it's open season on the rest of our freedoms. If we can't defend our First and Fourth and Fifth Amendments with Force, then we might as well not defend them at all.

And I get where you are coming from in the fact that people have become some complacent. It's the unfortunate American way to become complacent and everyone is to blame for it. We haven't been diligent stewards of our country and it's Bill of Rights. We haven't forced our hand enough on our politicians to keep them honest and truthful. We have let our politicians run us, thus creating the problem we are in today. And it's easy for it happen, people can get side tracked real easy. In an Age where technology rules and comfort and ease of use has taken over, people have freely slipped into a coma of not caring so to speak.

Which is why we should use the British as our prime example. They have been disarmed and are now reaping the whirlwinds of their own actions. They bought into their governments B.S. and now pay the price. All they can do is protest and issue us warnings to not let it happen on our own soil. And with that I'll end with a quote from a exceptional founding father.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

**TFOGGuys** · Tue Mar 3rd, 2009, 07:52 PM