Rider Mentoring

[Ghost]

How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

I respectfully disagree.

PMP, in particular has the "Oh shit I'm going to hit that F*ing wall" sensation after your bike tries to shake itself apart and throw you off coming through Turn 10 (it's not quite that bad, but it can feel like it--especially if you've not hit it before).

The Group of 10 taking off can happen in any session where there're faster riders that you may or may not feel compelled to keep up with. I think a decent amount of the incidents at track days are people getting in over their heads trying to keep pace with faster riders--just like it happens on the street (though at least at the track the consequences are typically milder).

Track days are way more than just corner practice--you're learning the true capabilities of your skill, you're learning your bike's true characteristics, you're learning what your tires like and don't like, you're learning (or should be learning) how to smoothly enter and exit corners, you're learning to ride with other people of very different skill levels and paces (lap times, etc), you're learning how to ride consistently so others can move around you without changing lines and messing everyone up and causing an incident...

There's really nothing I can think of that cannot be better learned on a track and then applied to the street...

[Bueller]

you need to read the post that Bueller was responding to....

And possibly my first post.

I hate to be the one who pushes the track thing because I know both worlds and some people have no interest or are intimated by the thought or riding track but I will throw that out here also. If you would like to visit IMI and really learn how to make your bike go around corners it will cost you all of $35 and no real bike prep. And they have fewer rules for rider gear than some of the recent rides posted here.

[Ezzzzy1]

you need to read the post that Bueller was responding to....

I did. Good quote to use to make the point. Anyone wanting track help doesnt need a resume to get it. Show up at the track and ask question. Big difference between the track and the canyons. I dont see anyone getting any real benefit from all this "mentoring" if they are looking to get help with canyon riding and someone wants to show them on the track.

[Ezzzzy1]

How about we start a thread for the guys that want to learn the track by teaching them how to ride the canyons?

[Bueller]

Why don't you

[UglyDogRacing]

I did. Good quote to use to make the point. Anyone wanting track help doesnt need a resume to get it. Show up at the track and ask question. Big difference between the track and the canyons. I dont see anyone getting any real benefit from all this "mentoring" if they are looking to get help with canyon riding and someone wants to show them on the track.

So if you show up at a track and ask questions how do you know the person you are asking is reputable and actually has more skills and knowledge than yourself? And yes there is a big difference between the track and the canyons. That said, the track is a much better place to hone your skills than the street. A day at the track would make a rider more confident in their abilities which would provide benefit with their street riding.

[UglyDogRacing]

How about we start a thread for the guys that want to learn the track by teaching them how to ride the canyons?

What Bueller said

[Ezzzzy1]

So if you show up at a track and ask questions how do you know the person you are asking is reputable and actually has more skills and knowledge than yourself? And yes there is a big difference between the track and the canyons. That said, the track is a much better place to hone your skills than the street. A day at the track would make a rider more confident in their abilities which would provide benefit with their street riding.

And magically people are starting to flock to the tracks to learn how to ride the canyons. I would be willing to bet that NONE of these "new hot rods" are going to show up to the track... Why? Because that is not what interests them. If it were you guys would already be dealing with them on the tracks, not the canyons.

As for knowing who the person is... I guess I have never needed my hand held in situations like this in life. Kinda your own fault if you are not able to see who is good at what and where to go for good information. The same people posting up their "cred" on here should be right there on the track willing to help anyone that looks like they need it.

[jrhurt]

Bueller, my problem with trails is just that I don't have the chance to ride them enough! I think I just need some practice time.

I was mainly talking about the track, but my issues actually apply to both. My main problem, other than confidence, is body positioning. Correctly contorting my 6'7" body onto a dirtbike is a challenge. I end up sitting way too much, especially on trails, and get tired very quickly when standing. I have been working on getting the bike set up correctly, but I am sure it has just as much to do with my positioning. I also really struggle with the tight turns, where I grab my brakes in the turn (which I know isn't correct) and come to almost a complete stop and then take off again. I think that mostly has to do with body positioning also.

I am going to the RMXA Day in the Dirt and am hoping to get some instruction there, but as Henry has mentioned, it will probably be so crowded that I don't have a chance to learn much. On a normal day at the track, I have a tough time finding people going my speed to follow.

[Ezzzzy1]

Why don't you

I figure someone else will. They will see this conversation, see what we are working on and go post their own up. HEY everyone look what my idea is!

[jrhurt]

By the way, if anyone is willing to help on the dirt, I definately wouldn't want you to make a special trip out of it. If you were going to be at one of the tracks anyway, and were willing to follow me for a couple of laps, that would great.

Thanks.

[Bueller]

I figure someone else will. They will see this conversation, see what we are working on and go post their own up. HEY everyone look what my idea is!

You're one butthurt bitch aren't you. Read the first post it states that it was mentioned in other threads......Give me a break go fuck off in another bullshit thread and leave this for what it is. A thread for riders to help riders that want help.

[Bueller]

By the way, if anyone is willing to help on the dirt, I definately wouldn't want you to make a special trip out of it. If you were going to be at one of the tracks anyway, and were willing to follow me for a couple of laps, that would great.

Thanks.

I don't go to the tracks so I can't help much there but when I go to the hills I usually post something up.
There are some rough plans in place to hit Rampart this weekend, probably Saturday am.

[Ezzzzy1]

You're one butthurt bitch aren't you. Read the first post it states that it was mentioned in other threads......Give me a break go fuck off in another bullshit thread and leave this for what it is. A thread for riders to help riders that want help.

Nice edit.

[BC14]

Yep

[Spooph]

This is where you have to be honest with yourself, do you think you are ready

I think I'm ready to show people good street technique. I understand the dynamics of a motorcycle, and I've survived a lot of stupid situations and know what NOT to do. I would feel comfortable showing people how to ride quickly in the canyons - how to NOT brake, how to ride the PACE, and such nonsense, but I'm not comfortable teaching them how to go twice the speed limit, or leapfrog while teaching them, or some such nonsense...

Hrmm, decisions decisions...

[UglyDogRacing]

And magically people are starting to flock to the tracks to learn how to ride the canyons. I would be willing to bet that NONE of these "new hot rods" are going to show up to the track... Why? Because that is not what interests them. If it were you guys would already be dealing with them on the tracks, not the canyons.

How about the 80+ riders that showed up at the Chicane Day three weeks ago at HPR, majority of them being street riders? They don't have to magically flock to the tracks. They have been going long before you ever started riding and they will be long after.

As for knowing who the person is... I guess I have never needed my hand held in situations like this in life. Kinda your own fault if you are not able to see who is good at what and where to go for good information. The same people posting up their "cred" on here should be right there on the track willing to help anyone that looks like they need it.

You sure needed your hand held while working at Vickery!
And I don't need to post up my "cred". I've been instructing for the past 6 years and helping riders, both street and on the track, any way I can for much longer than that.
What contributions have you made to the riders on this forum? Fortunately most on here have good judgement and don't pay much attention to you. I just laugh at you.

[Zach929rr]

Damn ez what's your deal mang?

[BC14]

I think I'm ready to show people good street technique. I understand the dynamics of a motorcycle, and I've survived a lot of stupid situations and know what NOT to do. I would feel comfortable showing people how to ride quickly in the canyons - how to NOT brake, how to ride the PACE, and such nonsense, but I'm not comfortable teaching them how to go twice the speed limit, or leapfrog while teaching them, or some such nonsense...

Hrmm, decisions decisions...

I read the PACE and watched TotW vol 2, and those helped a bunch. I also tagged along with some pretty quick people on some of my first group rides and that helped a ton as well. I try to avoid the brakes and maintain as constant a speed as I can through the corners, typically on the gas before the apex(smooth is fast). Granted, a track day or 2 would be great, but I feel pretty comfortable where I am now.

[Bueller]

I don't believe it should be about how to go fast, it should be more of a evaluation of riding skills and a chance to correct the obvious mistakes a newer rider is making. Ultimately you would teach smooth and as many know smooth leads to fast. It also gives them a chance to ask some questions about things that have been on their minds but don't know where to get the answers, some will post questions others may feel less inclined to publicly ask something on here for fear of asking a "dumb" question.
You are giving someone a bit of your experience so that they might not learn something the hard way.

[Sully]

^^Spooph rides a 250 and often a pink tutu (on girls only rides but still) and he kicks my ass on a regular basis and I have a liter bike LOL so do not be embarrassed by your 250 Luxo.

This is a good example of how the size of your bike doesn't always matter, it's about the skills you've acquired, seat time on your bike (getting to know your bike and how it reacts to different situations) and how you use that knowledge in riding on the street, canyons and track. It doesn't come overnight, it takes a lot of practice and seat time. Seeing how fast you can go up and down die-25 doesn't mean much unless your racing the quarter mile at Bandimere.

[dirkterrell]

Even tho people are seeming to think that the track is the perfect place to get better riding the canyons, practicing there is not really addressing the real issue.

Where is the sand training on the track? How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

Jason Pridmore covered these kinds of things when I took his class a couple of years ago out at HPR. If your teaching skills are limited, you might just focus on race lines at the track, but honestly, that's one of the last things I get to when helping street riders at the track. I think if you took a course like Jason's, you'd see just how limited your view of training at the track really is.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I'd rather learn to go the same speed with more in reserve than faster with less in reserve.

[brennahm]

People seem to be touching on it but here's my $.02...

The track is where you can learn how your bike acts at speed. You become AWARE of what it feels like at more extreme lean angles. You grow MORE accustomed to approaching corners at higher speeds. You BEGIN to learn how to navigate these new situations and instead of panicking, you learn to ride through it and do so enough times so that you gain some familiarity.

Does this teach how to deal with sand in a corner? No, not explicitly. However, it gives you the tools to do so. Instead of being afraid because you're approaching a corner quicker than expected, you say "I'm going too fast for the street, but I've seen this before." You turn in, see the sand, and again instead of freaking out you say "I'll just change my line mid-corner."

No the track is not a substitute for street miles, but it WILL go a LONG way in giving you the tools needed to ride safely. Probably faster than you used to, but more importantly, safer, because you know what to do and have proven to yourself that you're capable of the maneuvers necessary to come through tight situations in one piece.

Troll.