Liberty vs. Security: "The French Connection"

[Ghosty]

The very recent Islamic (anti-Jewish) terrorist attacks in France brings up one of our hot political topics of the last decade especially since the Patriot Act. Not starting an argument in either direction, but feel free to discuss why you think the French police handled this well, or didn't move in soon enough?...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/world/...html?hpt=hp_t3

French police had no grounds on which to arrest gunman Mohammed Merah before he carried out three attacks in which seven people died, Prime Minister Francois Fillon told French radio station RTL Friday.

Fillon acknowledged that some questions should be asked, particularly with regard to surveillance.
But, he said, "there was no single element" that would have allowed the police to arrest Merah before the killings began.

"We don't have the right in a country like ours to keep under permanent surveillance without a judicial decision someone who has committed no offense," he told RTL. "We live in a country under the rule of law."

My personal thoughts are, if what the PM is saying above jives, then I side with the government on this. The results are unfortunate, but Liberty and citizen's rights (which he is, a French citizen) were respected. Big question is, how our American FBI/DHS would've handled this, if any different? He is on our "no-fly" list, but that still isn't enough to warrant arrest. Makes for interesting debate...

[Ezzzzy1]

If they had arrested him sooner they would have been accused of "profiling" and because they waited people died. Sad.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its probably a duck. And with radical extremist groups "probably" is enough for me to say fuckit, lockem up. If you are part of the 5% that the FBI/CIA have zoned in on you are probably up to no good and something needs to be done about it.

[Ghosty]

If they had arrested him sooner they would have been accused of "profiling" and because they waited people died. Sad.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its probably a duck. And with radical extremist groups "probably" is enough for me to say fuckit, lockem up. If you are part of the 5% that the FBI/CIA have zoned in on you are probably up to no good and something needs to be done about it.

Eek! I have a feeling your post will definitely ignite a firestorm, heh! I see your points, but this is why libertarian mindets are so angry. What you're saying is a direct attack on the Constitution pretty much. Even if the FBI has "zoned in", if they haven't yet commited any crime besides radical rhetoric online, visiting "bad websites", etc. is that enough? Granted this guy already claimed he was trained by AlQaida in Pakistan, so that takes this a huge step further, but where is the line? Maybe he should've been picked up for questioning at least, for starters, good point.

Yep we know the whole "walks like a duck" mantra, BUT there's very good (Constitutional) reasoning behind TSA searching dear old Granny as often as the turban guy.

[TFOGGuys]

Read (don't watch the awful Tom Cruise movie) The Minority Report. Prior Restraint is illegal in the US justice system, but that doesn't mean our .gov won't try. The only error the French made that I can see is that they tried to take this jackhole alive, thereby placing others at risk.

[Ezzzzy1]

Eek! I have a feeling your post will definitely ignite a firestorm, heh! I see your points, but this is why libertarian mindets are so angry. What you're saying is a direct attack on the Constitution pretty much. Even if the FBI has "zoned in", if they haven't yet commited any crime besides radial rhetoric online, visiting "bad websites", etc. is that enough? Granted this guy already claimed he was trained by AlQaida in Pakistan, so that takes this a huge step further, but where is the line? Maybe he should've been picked up for questioning at least, for starters, good point.

Yep we know the whole "walks like a duck" mantra, BUT there's very good (Constitutional) reasoning behind TSA searching dear old Granny as often as the turban guy.

France doesnt have the same Constitution we do They are just trying to be like us and our "wonderful system"

When people start getting mad about innocent lives being lost while the authorities have intel on these guys then maybe they will stop extending the rights of our Constitution to people that are here JUST to hurt us.