Six races to decide Valentino Rossi's future....

[The Black Knight]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/198...gp_future.html


Valentino Rossi's performances during the opening six races of next season will be 'crucial' in deciding whether the Italian continues his MotoGP career beyond 2014.

The legendary seven time MotoGP champion claimed a record 80th victory during his return to Yamaha this year, but was left firmly in the wake of Marc Marquez (Honda), Jorge Lorenzo (Yamaha) and Dani Pedrosa (Honda) in the championship standings.

In an extract released by Sportmediaset.it from "The New Age - A year of MotoGP", to be broadcast by the Italy 1 TV channel tonight (Wednesday), Rossi states:

"If I'm here and I want to keep racing, I will have to stay ahead in 2014, closer to the first three. From February to June, the tests and the first six races will be crucial for deciding whether to continue or stop racing in MotoGP at the end of the season. I'd like to continue for another couple of years, but only if they are competitive."

As part of his efforts to bridge the gap to the class leaders, 34-year-old Rossi has split from crew chief Jerry Burgess, a decision he also addresses in the programme.

Rossi's most recent world title was in 2009, the #46 breaking a leg early in 2010 then making an ill-fated switch to Ducati for 2011.

The sixth race of the 2014 season will be Rossi's home Italian round, at Mugello.

[FZRguy]

I predict he will go to four wheel racing sooner rather than later.

[madvlad]

I'm with John on this one. He also can be as competitive as Yamaha allows him to be. Yamaha has always been a conservative factory, meanwhile Honda taking advantage of that and taking it to them. I'm sure he'll try his best and hope to see him battling it out at the top but we'll see what the "race package" is in comparison to Hondas

[The Black Knight]

I'm with John on this one. He also can be as competitive as Yamaha allows him to be. Yamaha has always been a conservative factory, meanwhile Honda taking advantage of that and taking it to them. I'm sure he'll try his best and hope to see him battling it out at the top but we'll see what the "race package" is in comparison to Hondas

I think if this is his final season. I'd like to see him move on to WSBK instead of 4 wheel racing. I know he'd be competitive in WSBK and that would be great to watch him duke it out with the veterans over there.

I'm going to have to agree with you. Yamaha will only give him a package that allows him to be as competitive as they want him to be. Other than that, he can't ask for anything more. His skills are starting to go off and he needs the best possible package he can get. If he doesn't get it, then he's already getting the short end of the stick.

Could get interesting though, rumors are already starting to swirl quickly that Honda are interested in Lorenzo. Which would mean a Pedrosa departure. If that were to happen, Yamaha may want to keep Rossi around as they wouldn't have anyone to help develop the bike after 2014. Sure the newcomers would have to start with bike development but it would be an uphill battle, especially trying to tackle a Marquez/Lorenzo Honda backed team. Which if that were to happen, where would Pedrosa go? Maybe to Yamaha?? who knows, they've already seen his performance at Honda(8 years, 0 titles).

Yamaha are in a predicament. Lorenzo is still young enough to want a winning and dominant bike. Rossi is in the twilight of his career. Even if he were by some amazing chance to win the title next year, I still don't think Yamaha would want to build much more on or around him. He's still on his way out, and should he win a 10th title. I'm guessing that would be it for Rossi. He wouldn't come back with any motivation that's for sure. Yamaha really are up a creek without a paddle if Lorenzo leaves.

A Marquez/Lorenzo Honda team would be unbeatable. If anything Lorenzo would be on the receiving end of what Rossi experienced back when Lorenzo came to Yamaha. Would be some serious team rivalry.

I don't know, if MotoGP can't figure out a way to level the playing field so that more riders had a chance to fight for wins, it's going to be an all Honda series. Which will spell death for MotoGP. Now throw in the new fuel limits(20L as opposed to 21L) and no mandatory rider/bike weight requirements. It only means that those pip-squeak riders(i.e. Marquez, Lorenzo, Pedrosa) will continue to flourish, while the heavier and bigger sized riders will suffer, due to not being able to use as much fuel as the smaller guys, and having brakes that won't work as well as the lighter guys.

MotoGP is starting to turn into Formula 1, and while I understand MotoGP is the Formula 1 of motorcycle racing, it shouldn't embrace all of their technological B.S. either. I've read in several places where the engineers are starting to map the bikes for each specific corner of the track, straights included. One engineer mentioned they can modify the bike without the rider knowing it, in order to say.. save fuel, or tire wear. That's F1 territory, and it's really going to take the rider out of the equation.

Formula 1 has done away with TC(traction control), why can't MotoGP?? I understand wheelie control as it's for safety and TC is for safety to an extent. However, take away the TC and make these riders learn what it means to conserve their rear tire without having a computer do it for them. I'm betting you'd see riders learn more about finesse and we wouldn't be seeing as many highsides(well we would in the beginning until the riders started to learn their bikes). But look at how many times Lorenzo highsides. That's been one of the biggest faults with Lorenzo even in this era of modern technology. He's always been known as a rider that can high side a bike with TC... Why? because he's a ham-fisted rider. He's never had to learn what it meant to have finesse in throttle control on big bikes. Yeah he grew up on 125's and 250's but those are a whole different beast from the 500's and the early 990's.

Marquez and Pedrosa both suffer from highsides as well. Marquez crashed 15 times this year. Some of them were very bad crashes, luckily he walked away from them with no major injuries.

You don't see Rossi high side much and when he does it's rare. But he comes from a different era, where riders knew about throttle manipulation. Traction control was their right hand and that was it.

I've always loved MotoGP because of it's grotesque use of technology(like in F1) but there has to be a checks and balance for that use of technology. If you want to impose fuel consumption and limits, fine that's great. But also institute a mandatory rider/bike weight requirement. That way all riders have to learn to conserve fuel. Heavier riders won't get penalized because of the way they were born, and smaller riders won't get advantages for the way they were born.

I'm sure smaller riders would scream foul, because adding dead weight to a bike for a weight limit would upset the steering geometry they would argue. Well my advice is during the off season, bulk up a bit. Dial the massive amounts of cardio back and pack on some muscle. Same for heavier riders, maybe mix in some more cardio to get your weight down a little more, so the bike doesn't have to work as hard to haul you around. Because while being a bigger rider may help you to throw the bike around a little easier because it's fighting more weight when you lean it over, it's also negatively impacts you because the bike has to work harder on the brakes(which in turn wears on tires and brakes more), and consumes more fuel in acceleration(meaning you're slower out of corners and the bike burns more fuel to get you up to speed).

[madvlad]

Yea technology has taken over for sure, I think Marquez mentioned something about that during the crash where he supposedly broke his sensor of who knows wtf it was... He said that technology should help for safety but not help win championships... I for one am not for all that crap even on street bikes, I like to be in control of the bike and have it do what I want it to, not the other way around. Maybe that's also affecting older riders like Rossi and such... but well I'm no expert so who knows, guess we'll see what goes down this upcoming season but with Rossi focusing on the team he just started and other things, something tells me he'll be done rather sooner than we would like.

[FZRguy]

BK, you win the "2013 Most Number of Long Posts" award. See Vance for your trophy.

Be great to see Rossi compete for a championship again, also like the WSBK idea. No clue what kind of chance he has to get a F1 ride. Maybe we will see him in World Rally racing.

[Drano]

I'm with John on this one. He also can be as competitive as Yamaha allows him to be. Yamaha has always been a conservative factory, meanwhile Honda taking advantage of that and taking it to them. I'm sure he'll try his best and hope to see him battling it out at the top but we'll see what the "race package" is in comparison to Hondas

This doesn't make much sense to me. Not only do the riders compete for championships, but manufacturers do as well. Why would a manufacturer put Rossi, a 9-times World Champion, on an uncompetitive machine so as to prevent him from battling for podiums? I'm sure any manufacturer is happy when their rider wins a championship on their machine, but what company doesn't also want to claim bragging rights that their machines consistently placed more podiums than their competitors? That's completely backwards to any marketing strategy I can think of. Not to mention, Yamaha (381 points) was extremely close to Honda (389 points), which likely translated to them putting more pressure on Rossi to close the gap and hang with the top three. Am I misinterpreting what you are saying? If not, it sounds like major conspiracy theory stuff to me.

[madvlad]

This doesn't make much sense to me. Not only do the riders compete for championships, but manufacturers do as well. Why would a manufacturer put Rossi, a 9-times World Champion, on an uncompetitive machine so as to prevent him from battling for podiums? I'm sure any manufacturer is happy when their rider wins a championship on their machine, but what company doesn't also want to claim bragging rights that their machines consistently placed more podiums than their competitors? That's completely backwards to any marketing strategy I can think of. Not to mention, Yamaha (381 points) was extremely close to Honda (389 points), which likely translated to them putting more pressure on Rossi to close the gap and hang with the top three. Am I misinterpreting what you are saying? If not, it sounds like major conspiracy theory stuff to me.

You'd be surprised how much goes behind scenes with team politics and stuff. It's more than obvious during the races if you pay attention. How is it then that Lorenzo's bike is much faster, much better rounded and Rossi is only being able to battle it out with satellite team riders which bikes are underpowered.... Both Honda bikes are equal as both riders finished in the top pretty much the whole year and were bringing it to Lorenzo, they have a complete and fair package. Given Rossi managed a lot of 4th place finishes and some podiums but it was miles behind the top runners. Makes more than sense to me. Like I said you'd be surprised. Though I hate to say it that as I'm sure in some senses Rossi has lost his edge and can't be all the bike and it's his first year back with Yamaha but to me there's something missing in that equation that comes from the team not giving him the race package he needs, he gets the jump at the starts and keeps up with the pack for about 5-6 laps and then starts falling behind, you notice the power differences in the straight aways and stuff, hell Cal's Tech3 bike which SUCKS something fierce in the straights was giving Rossi a run in the straights and was also having problems with front brakes for most of the year, that's saying A LOT. I also understand that each rider has their own dynamics as to how they ride, their pace, limits etc but I don't think that Rossi is THAT BAD after just 2 years of bad riding in that shit excuse of a bike at Ducati (Yes, I know Stoner made whatever Rossi couldn't with Ducati, good for him. I still hate Stoner because he's a cocky fuck). I could be wrong but just my point of view, you're welcome to believe what you must.

[kawasakirob]

Drugs are bad mmmk

[Drano]

You'd be surprised how much goes behind scenes with team politics and stuff. It's more than obvious during the races if you pay attention. How is it then that Lorenzo's bike is much faster, much better rounded and Rossi is only being able to battle it out with satellite team riders which bikes are underpowered.... Both Honda bikes are equal as both riders finished in the top pretty much the whole year and were bringing it to Lorenzo, they have a complete and fair package. Given Rossi managed a lot of 4th place finishes and some podiums but it was miles behind the top runners. Makes more than sense to me. Like I said you'd be surprised. Though I hate to say it that as I'm sure in some senses Rossi has lost his edge and can't be all the bike and it's his first year back with Yamaha but to me there's something missing in that equation that comes from the team not giving him the race package he needs, he gets the jump at the starts and keeps up with the pack for about 5-6 laps and then starts falling behind, you notice the power differences in the straight aways and stuff, hell Cal's Tech3 bike which SUCKS something fierce in the straights was giving Rossi a run in the straights and was also having problems with front brakes for most of the year, that's saying A LOT. I also understand that each rider has their own dynamics as to how they ride, their pace, limits etc but I don't think that Rossi is THAT BAD after just 2 years of bad riding in that shit excuse of a bike at Ducati (Yes, I know Stoner made whatever Rossi couldn't with Ducati, good for him. I still hate Stoner because he's a cocky fuck). I could be wrong but just my point of view, you're welcome to believe what you must.

I agree that Rossi, on the Yamaha, should be closer to the top three. We were all expecting to see him rise and shine again, but we don't know what's going on in his head either. It has been said on multiple occasions that he has struggled to get used to the new M1, which has changed quite a lot since 2010 to suit Lorenzo's riding style. Nor is it a stretch to say that Rossi is now the stepchild of the Yamaha team, especially since Lorenzo was the returning World Champion, and is remarkably faster than Rossi. But to make things clear, Valentino Rossi has done more for Yamaha than any other rider in history. I don't see Yamaha holding a grudge. If they wanted to do that, they could have elected to not pick up his contract and sent him down the pits to ride with another team. We're also talking about a Japanese company who, generally speaking, embrace the precepts of honor, and value their reputation. Even Burgess said that Yamaha has been bending over backwards to meet Rossi's demands this last season. That doesn't sound like a company attempting to snub him for walking away two years ago, but that's just me.

[The Black Knight]

I agree that Rossi, on the Yamaha, should be closer to the top three. We were all expecting to see him rise and shine again, but we don't know what's going on in his head either. It has been said on multiple occasions that he has struggled to get used to the new M1, which has changed quite a lot since 2010 to suit Lorenzo's riding style. Nor is it a stretch to say that Rossi is now the stepchild of the Yamaha team, especially since Lorenzo was the returning World Champion, and is remarkably faster than Rossi. But to make things clear, Valentino Rossi has done more for Yamaha than any other rider in history. I don't see Yamaha holding a grudge. If they wanted to do that, they could have elected to not pick up his contract and sent him down the pits to ride with another team. We're also talking about a Japanese company who, generally speaking, embrace the precepts of honor, and value their reputation. Even Burgess said that Yamaha has been bending over backwards to meet Rossi's demands this last season. That doesn't sound like a company attempting to snub him for walking away two years ago, but that's just me.

And they showed their love, respect and appreciation by telling him(back in 2010) he'd be the #2 rider in the 2011 campaign. Which is why he made the ill-fated switch to Ducati. Rossi took Yamaha from a languishing MotoGP team, with a sub-par bike. Too a multi-championship winning team with a multi-championship winning bike. Of course they don't hold the same grudge that Honda did/does/and still do. Rossi didn't make them pay for their mistake when he went to Ducati. Had he gone to Ducati and won, or taken another championship. For sure he'd have been a thorn in their claw. He didn't produce results, therefore they viewed him as a non-threat.

MotoGP is a business, like any other business the world over. Rossi was brought back because of his sponsorship and the money he brings back to Yamaha(whom were struggling with sponsors). Make no mistake though, when it all comes down to business and businesses. The powers that be are going to f**k you the first chance they get.

Answer me this, if Rossi has the same bike as Lorenzo, with the same parts and goodies. Then why were the results so very different? Also why couldn't of Ben Spies(who had the same kit as Lorenzo, according to you) post similar results as well? If both Spies, Rossi and Lorenzo are all on the same kit, then results wouldn't vary that much. They are all world class racers, all of them just as fast as each other, all of them at the pinnacle of their racing.

My answer?? Lorenzo has the better bike. He also has the bike that's been developed for him(not a Rossi developed bike). He's the number one rider, so he's going to get the number one parts(first). It would be a insult to my intelligence and many others, to tell us that Yamaha aren't favoring Lorenzo over Rossi, and that Yamaha aren't providing more support to Lorenzo over Rossi. Don't tell me they are both on equal machinery. That's the reason why you have a #1 rider and a #2 rider, then Satellite riders.

Also don't tell me that Lorenzo wasn't getting parts sooner than Rossi. Lorenzo was in the title hunt and had been from day one. Sure Lorenzo and Rossi both got the seamless-shift transmission. But what other parts that we don't know about Lorenzo was given before Rossi? What modifications were done first to Lorenzo's bike and then Rossi's??

I'll agree with you that they both are riding the same bike. What I'll disagree is the fact that they are riding the same bike, at the same time. Lorenzo's gets upgrades first, then Rossi's. It's the natural pecking order of life, especially in MotoGP.

[madvlad]

Drugs are bad mmmk

Great input...

[kawasakirob]

Of course it's the bikes fault. Duh....

[The Black Knight]

Of course it's the bikes fault. Duh....

ever heard of NATCORK?? Even your beloved Stoner had to deal with it..

[Drano]

And they showed their love, respect and appreciation by telling him(back in 2010) he'd be the #2 rider in the 2011 campaign. Which is why he made the ill-fated switch to Ducati. Rossi took Yamaha from a languishing MotoGP team, with a sub-par bike. Too a multi-championship winning team with a multi-championship winning bike. Of course they don't hold the same grudge that Honda did/does/and still do. Rossi didn't make them pay for their mistake when he went to Ducati. Had he gone to Ducati and won, or taken another championship. For sure he'd have been a thorn in their claw. He didn't produce results, therefore they viewed him as a non-threat.

And you don't think that Yamaha may have been making a strategic move to ensure their future with a younger and faster rider who had just won the 2010 World Championship? Also, by your logic he did it on a lesser bike since he wasn't the #1 guy in the paddock, those rights would have been reserved for Rossi, no?

MotoGP is a business, like any other business the world over. Rossi was brought back because of his sponsorship and the money he brings back to Yamaha(whom were struggling with sponsors). Make no mistake though, when it all comes down to business and businesses. The powers that be are going to f**k you the first chance they get.

Yamaha is also a business, and at the end of the day they could care less who's winning on their bikes, so long as their bikes are winning. I simply don't see Yamaha intentionally sabotaging Rossi's chances, as that's tantamount to shooting their own profitability in the foot.

Answer me this, if Rossi has the same bike as Lorenzo, with the same parts and goodies. Then why were the results so very different? Also why couldn't of Ben Spies(who had the same kit as Lorenzo, according to you) post similar results as well? If both Spies, Rossi and Lorenzo are all on the same kit, then results wouldn't vary that much. They are all world class racers, all of them just as fast as each other, all of them at the pinnacle of their racing.

My answer?? Lorenzo has the better bike. He also has the bike that's been developed for him(not a Rossi developed bike). He's the number one rider, so he's going to get the number one parts(first). It would be a insult to my intelligence and many others, to tell us that Yamaha aren't favoring Lorenzo over Rossi, and that Yamaha aren't providing more support to Lorenzo over Rossi. Don't tell me they are both on equal machinery. That's the reason why you have a #1 rider and a #2 rider, then Satellite riders.

Even Rossi and Burgess have both said that age could likely be a factor in Rossi's inability to compete. I don't believe that blame can be placed solely on the bike. I may have believed that when he was riding the Ducati, but not on the Yamaha. Nor do I recall any complaints that Yamaha was treating Rossi unfairly. Ducati may suffer from a large amount of hubris, but Yamaha has learned to keep their ears open, because it wins races. And if Rossi's claim to fame was taking a sub-par Yamaha and proving he can win on an inferior machine, why can't he do it now? The simple answer is that he's not in his 20s any more.

Also don't tell me that Lorenzo wasn't getting parts sooner than Rossi. Lorenzo was in the title hunt and had been from day one. Sure Lorenzo and Rossi both got the seamless-shift transmission. But what other parts that we don't know about Lorenzo was given before Rossi? What modifications were done first to Lorenzo's bike and then Rossi's??

I'll agree with you that they both are riding the same bike. What I'll disagree is the fact that they are riding the same bike, at the same time. Lorenzo's gets upgrades first, then Rossi's. It's the natural pecking order of life, especially in MotoGP.

Still, that's only speculation, and not something I choose to entertain when the majority of explanations regarding Rossi's ailing performance point to his age. It's bound to happen, and it happens to occur at a much younger age for professional athletes, regardless of profession. For some it happens sooner rather than later.

P.S. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I like Valentino Rossi, and I want see him win again. But I'm not against his retirement, nor do I blame Yamaha for seeing potential in a younger and faster rider. I don't care for Lorenzo, but that's the name of the game in professional motorsports. It happens to them all eventually, and it will one day happen to Marquez. In 2014, if I'm wrong about Rossi, I'll gladly eat my words, you can count on that.

[sag]

rossi will never be in F1, hes way too old for that as well despite his testing numbers. loeb has great test numbers in an f1 car as well but never a ride. rossi to nascar after this year lol.

as for the argument with the yamahas, rider A has a better immediate team for sure but lorenzo shit all over spies and rossi because he was that much a better rider at those times.

[kawasakirob]

I bet Rossi doesn't win one race next year. I genuinely do not think it will happen. Especially with the addition of the customer bikes.

[madvlad]

If Rossi ends up in Nascrap I will officially loose all respect for him.

[kawasakirob]

Even finishing on the podium I think will be difficult for him next year. The best chance he has will obviously be at Assen, a track he thoroughly enjoys.

[The Black Knight]

I bet Rossi doesn't win one race next year. I genuinely do not think it will happen. Especially with the addition of the customer bikes.

Even finishing on the podium I think will be difficult for him next year. The best chance he has will obviously be at Assen, a track he thoroughly enjoys.

[kawasakirob]

You've been waiting to use that haven't you?

[The Black Knight]

And you don't think that Yamaha may have been making a strategic move to ensure their future with a younger and faster rider who had just won the 2010 World Championship? Also, by your logic he did it on a lesser bike since he wasn't the #1 guy in the paddock, those rights would have been reserved for Rossi, no?
You did watch the 2010 MotoGP race season correct?? You do remember Rossi breaking his leg at Mugello, being out for four races and then Lorenzo putting up 95 points on Rossi?? Rossi was effectively out of the 2010 title chase. Sure they started pushing more for Lorenzo. After Rossi was out, Lorenzo became the No.1 rider while Rossi was healing up after a broken leg. Coming back from a broken leg, with a 95 point deficit is hard for anyone(even Rossi to overcome).


Yamaha is also a business, and at the end of the day they could care less who's winning on their bikes, so long as their bikes are winning. I simply don't see Yamaha intentionally sabotaging Rossi's chances, as that's tantamount to shooting their own profitability in the foot.
Never said they've sabotaged Rossi. Just that they aren't pushing for him to get results, the kind of results they want Lorenzo to get. Yes they should have done more to get Rossi up to pace. It would've helped not only their chances in the Constructors championship, but also Lorenzo in the Rider championship.



Even Rossi and Burgess have both said that age could likely be a factor in Rossi's inability to compete. I don't believe that blame can be placed solely on the bike. I may have believed that when he was riding the Ducati, but not on the Yamaha. Nor do I recall any complaints that Yamaha was treating Rossi unfairly. Ducati may suffer from a large amount of hubris, but Yamaha has learned to keep their ears open, because it wins races. And if Rossi's claim to fame was taking a sub-par Yamaha and proving he can win on an inferior machine, why can't he do it now? The simple answer is that he's not in his 20s any more.
Blame can be placed on the bike with some(not all) degree. It's not the same bike he was riding in 2010. It's not a bike he's helped develop over the last three years. Can't really count this year, as it was his return to a new bike and new way of doing things. Rossi's claim to fame was being able to take struggling bikes and help develop them into serious title contenders. Sure he's not in his 20's anymore. Age isn't as much of a factor as is his mindset of wanting to win with the right bike he feels he can push to the limit. He's got more racecraft than anyone else on the grid. Problem is(and I can't blame him) he doesn't want to push a bike he can't trust. He spent two years at Ducati doing that. He's also got Mugello 2010 in his mind. Last time he was pushing and went past the limit, he broke a leg. This is all coming to play in his mind.

But I firmly believe, should he get the bike he's looking for. There's no stopping him from again stepping onto the top spot of the podium.


Still, that's only speculation, and not something I choose to entertain when the majority of explanations regarding Rossi's ailing performance point to his age. It's bound to happen, and it happens to occur at a much younger age for professional athletes, regardless of profession. For some it happens sooner rather than later.

P.S. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I like Valentino Rossi, and I want see him win again. But I'm not against his retirement, nor do I blame Yamaha for seeing potential in a younger and faster rider. I don't care for Lorenzo, but that's the name of the game in professional motorsports. It happens to them all eventually, and it will one day happen to Marquez. In 2014, if I'm wrong about Rossi, I'll gladly eat my words, you can count on that.

We'll just have to wait for 2014 and see what happens. Winter testing will be key. I'm betting he'll realize his potential during the Winter tests. That will give him an idea of the kind of pace he can run.

You've been waiting to use that haven't you?

seemed fitting...

[kawasakirob]

seemed fitting...

Well maybe if Rossi could've ridden the Duc like Stoner he would have 10 championships

Alright I'm done.

[The Black Knight]

Well maybe if Rossi could've ridden the Duc like Stoner he would have 10 championships

Alright I'm done.

well maybe if Stoner grew a set and not backed out of MotoGP racing he would have 9 World Championships like Rossi


now I'm done