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Thread: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

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    Concussion- The Movie and Real Life


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_(2015_film)

    Since this movie just came out for rent I recommend people seeing it as it really shook me up: one of those movies where after you just keep thinking about it. I’ve had at least 5 concussions through the years and I am sure in the sportbike community others have too; one of mine was from a motorcycle wreck.

    Not only did Will Smith do an excellent job, but the movie was very informative on CTE (Chronic traumatic encephalopathy) that his character discovered. The doctor, Dr. Bennet Omalu, proves that concussions over the years have made people go crazy and is occurring more and more with sports nowadays. Unfortunately it can really only be confirmed post-mortem, so it has taken a long time to get this message out.

    Honestly after seeing this, I am not sure I’d let my kid play football in fear of the concussions and damage it could lead to in the future (if they played for many years, starting at a early age). I’ve heard stories of NFL players breaking down in tears watching this movie and makes me wonder how many people are truly educated in this….or do they just play a sport and not think of the consequences.

    It has mainly hit football, but there are other sports that have had players have it too: hockey, WWE, boxing, etc


    This list is pretty amazing List of NFL players with chronic traumatic encephalopathy
    Former players with CTE confirmed post-mortem: 25
    Deceased players suspected of having suffered from CTE: 8
    Living former players diagnosed with CTE or ALS or reporting symptoms consistent with CTE or ALS: 33
    Former players listed as plaintiffs in lawsuits against the NFL for concussion-related injuries received after playing: 2000+


    Discuss..............
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    I'm sorry man I really hate this cte argument. I don't deny that head injuries happen but come on. football? out of all the things in the world you are going to argue that the guys who wear the most pads and play the least are getting injured more than say... rugby players?

    while yes football is huge here in America if you take a step back and look at the sporting community around the world football is a small aspect of life.

    rugby players don't seem to be having these issues. how about dirt bike riders? haven't seen Travis in the news for slapping down any girls. don't see Johnny Knoxville freaking out.

    now they are suing the NFL? what a bunch babies. this just proves even further that these football players even more pathetic. they have been handed the world their whole lives and it shows. everyday.

    my finale argument will be hockey players. guys who didn't even wear helmets until recently. unless of course you want argue about that soft piece of ice that broke your fall.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    I'm sorry man I really hate this cte argument. I don't deny that head injuries happen but come on. football? out of all the things in the world you are going to argue that the guys who wear the most pads and play the least are getting injured more than say... rugby players?

    while yes football is huge here in America if you take a step back and look at the sporting community around the world football is a small aspect of life.

    rugby players don't seem to be having these issues. how about dirt bike riders? haven't seen Travis in the news for slapping down any girls. don't see Johnny Knoxville freaking out.

    now they are suing the NFL? what a bunch babies. this just proves even further that these football players even more pathetic. they have been handed the world their whole lives and it shows. everyday.

    my finale argument will be hockey players. guys who didn't even wear helmets until recently. unless of course you want argue about that soft piece of ice that broke your fall.
    Well it is a real thing and this doctor had proven it with biopsies of the brain; appears the liquid that surrounds our head releases a “toxin” when it is jolted; more complicated than that, but that is the short description. This entire movie is based on true facts and basically follows the ex-NFL player, Mike Webster, who did go crazy and died at the age of 50. Junior Seau was another high known case where he went crazy and killed himself.

    I am not familiar with Rugby, but with NFL football the issue is the players get a concussion and are back playing that same day. With motorcross, you very rarely will see a guy get a concussion and then ride again that same day…even so they don’t suffer the repeated impacts that a NFL players does; average is 30-50 hits a game…some of these register higher than an impact of a severe car crash (we are dealing with some of the biggest, strongest, athletes on this planet…does Rugby even have the same “power” players as NFL…I really do not know???). As with Hockey, again I believe they may take a few hits, but not to the extent of a NFL players who takes a lot of those hits directly to the head. I am no experts, just saying the list is huge for NFL and that is where this doctor decided to focus it on as the issue is repeated concussions without time for the brain to heal

    I am surprised you didn’t mention MMA, but you must know when a fighter gets a concussion he/she is banned from even training for 6 months…much less fighting. Now boxing with their 3 round Ko’s is a different story, but we all have seen “punchy” boxers to know the damage. I’d go to say boxing has to be worse for CTE than football……all I can think is it is widely known, so people have accepted that, where as in football we have kids playing and getting concussion at a young age and many people believe CTE is not real.

    There is no test for CTE on a living person, so it has been a hard thing to really prove…only recently has science got advanced enough to biopsy a brain like we can.

    Either way you should watch the movie and see how you feel after. I didn’t know much about it, but after watching the movie and doing some research, I did become a believer and has me worried about the concussions I have had in past….and how I need to avoid any more in the future.


    P.S. The CTE article does mention other sports too: CTE has been most commonly found in professional athletes participating in American football,association football, ice hockey, professional wrestling, stunt performing, bull riding, bicycle motocross, rodeo, and other contact sports who have experienced repeated concussions or other brain trauma. Its presence in domestic violence is also being investigated. It can affect high school players who have played for just a few years.[1]
    Last edited by bulldog; Tue Mar 29th, 2016 at 09:55 AM.
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    no no no no. I didn't say it wasn't real. I even said I'm sure exposure to masive head wounds over a long period does have an effect. I'm talking about the said actions being blamed on ctw. as in beating the holy hell out of your chick and dragging her to your car.

    notice you didn't argue hockey. rugy is the same as football just without pads. the rules are a bit different but honestly American football is just a pussafied verson of rugy.

    my point was that there is many sports in the world much harder on the body than football yet these guys are crying like they are being sent into battle.

    it makes me sick to here this bullshit. I'm sorry you got paid millions of dollars to play a game. you poor thing.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Rugby players don't hit heads nearly as much as football players. There is an argument that if you want to do something about CTE than ban helmets from football, then players wouldn't hit head first. My understanding (haven't seen the movie) is that they actually made the issue smaller than it is in the film.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...gue-of-denial/

    Gets me nervous because I've played a lot of football and hockey, actually the worst head shots I've taken have been mt biking and snowboarding though. Symptoms (depression, memory loss, etc) can be there and you won't know, just gets chalked up as old age or blamed on something else.

    NFL is in a tough situation. I'm guessing this is going to get more and more exposed with many sports but football will be the poster child for it.
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Looks like Rugby is pretty worried about it.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-34249189
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhizafa View Post
    Looks like Rugby is pretty worried about it.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-34249189
    but are their players acting like children? I will say this again in a shorter speach.

    I am not saying the injury doesn't happen. I'm saying blaiming poor choices and acting like children on it is pathetic.


    edit.

    like tiger woods blaiming cheating on his wife as part of being addicted to sex. remember all that stuff? every time someone cheated on their spouse it was because they had this illness?

    just an example.
    Last edited by #1Townie; Tue Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:12 AM.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    no no no no. I didn't say it wasn't real. I even said I'm sure exposure to masive head wounds over a long period does have an effect. I'm talking about the said actions being blamed on ctw. as in beating the holy hell out of your chick and dragging her to your car.

    notice you didn't argue hockey. rugy is the same as football just without pads. the rules are a bit different but honestly American football is just a pussafied verson of rugy.

    my point was that there is many sports in the world much harder on the body than football yet these guys are crying like they are being sent into battle.

    it makes me sick to here this bullshit. I'm sorry you got paid millions of dollars to play a game. you poor thing.
    I know from the movie and artiles, people claimed that Mike Webster was a nice guy all his life and then he started going crazy and his entire attitude changed because of CTE; he was pretty well off and had friends offer to help him, yet lived in his van an actually tazed himself to fall asleep. From what I read he didn’t even understand what was going on and doctors at the time had no idea either until this doctor came around and proved through extensive post-mortem autopsies that CTE was real and could cause these issues. I believe they said the same thing about Chris Bennoit (WWE), that he was super nice and then something snapped in him, so I am not all that sure it is an excuse; although I am sure for some it is.

    I think this is happening in all impact sports, but the NFL is just one of the biggest to go after and since his research stated with NFL players, it just got put in as the major offender.

    I thought the same thing about “poor guys get millions to play”, but then it appears the issue here is NFL has denied this for so long that many players thought the equipment they were provided was enough to keep them safe”. Years later they find out that the NFL doesn’t care and thinks of them as a product…out with the old and in with the new.

    Honestly I look at the giant NFL players and can’t think of many more sports that do have bigger impacts on a daily basis…..minus boxing (again I don’t watch Rugby to know enough to comment). The guys that make the NFL are the top 1% of athletes around the world and the strength they have is almost unbelievable…..then getting hit by that on a daily basis for years…most players that make it to the NFL start as young kids to make it to that skill level; what this doctor is saying is one of the main contributing factors (young brains).

    I just think the more this gets out the more it will make people aware that there are bigger risks than a few broken bones, arthritis, back problems, etc that we have come to link to football players.


    Quote Originally Posted by bodhizafa View Post
    Rugby players don't hit heads nearly as much as football players. There is an argument that if you want to do something about CTE than ban helmets from football, then players wouldn't hit head first. My understanding (haven't seen the movie) is that they actually made the issue smaller than it is in the film.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...gue-of-denial/

    Gets me nervous because I've played a lot of football and hockey, actually the worst head shots I've taken have been mt biking and snowboarding though. Symptoms (depression, memory loss, etc) can be there and you won't know, just gets chalked up as old age or blamed on something else.

    NFL is in a tough situation. I'm guessing this is going to get more and more exposed with many sports but football will be the poster child for it.
    I agree and think this is getting downplayed because the NFL is never going away….like they said in the movie “Sunday used to be the lords days…then football came along and took that day and people can’t live without it”. Seeing how the city reacted to the Broncos winning showed me how deep football is in a state and most likely will never stop……so all they can do is educate people and if players want to continue, then they know the risks.

    Yeah I’ve taken some bad hits too….wrestling, fights, car accidents, sportbikes wreck, crowbar overhead (worst one), snowboarding wrecks and it has really made me worry as I do see some signs and would never know if this is the cause of like you said…old age or something else. Either way it seems after the damage is done, there is nothing they can do to repair it.....scary
    Last edited by bulldog; Tue Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:27 AM.
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    but are their players acting like children? I will say this again in a shorter speach.

    I am not saying the injury doesn't happen. I'm saying blaiming poor choices and acting like children on it is pathetic.


    edit.

    like tiger woods blaiming cheating on his wife as part of being addicted to sex. remember all that stuff? every time someone cheated on their spouse it was because they had this illness?

    just an example.
    I think this is why this film was put out....to educate people of it. Before this movie I really didn't think this stuff was that big a deal, but it is. Like I said, let players know the consequences and if they choose to continue to play, then they should not b*tch. NFL has just been trying to cover it up for so long.....
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post

    Honestly I look at the giant NFL players and can’t think of many more sports that do have bigger impacts on a daily basis…..minus boxing (again I don’t watch Rugby to know enough to comment). The guys that make the NFL are the top 1% of athletes around the world and the strength they have is almost unbelievable…..then getting hit by that on a daily basis
    https://youtu.be/-5xkMNIt-5k

    https://youtu.be/RdTh8O9xYO0
    Last edited by #1Townie; Tue Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:50 AM.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    but are their players acting like children? I will say this again in a shorter speach.

    I am not saying the injury doesn't happen. I'm saying blaiming poor choices and acting like children on it is pathetic.


    edit.

    like tiger woods blaiming cheating on his wife as part of being addicted to sex. remember all that stuff? every time someone cheated on their spouse it was because they had this illness?

    just an example.
    From the Mayo Clinic:

    Signs and symptoms of CTE usually begin eight to 10 years after repetitive mild traumatic brain injury. These include:
    • Difficulty thinking (cognitive impairment)
    • Impulsive behavior
    • Depression or apathy
    • Short-term memory loss
    • Difficulty planning and carrying out tasks (executive function)
    • Emotional instability
    • Substance abuse
    • Suicidal thoughts or behavior

    You might be correct in saying a lot of them act like children and it has nothing to do with CTE.....but some of them probably are acting like children because of CTE. Poor choices prior to the trauma may have more to do with a shitty personality or just being an asshole like you suggest. But post trauma, the symptoms could be creating the same image.

    Here is the link to the Mayo Clinic page

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20113581

    some interesting stuff. One of the misconceptions is that its mainly caused by large traumatic impacts when in actuality the multiple mild impacts over time are just as bad if not worse. Probably why boxers with long careers who haven't been knocked out much (Joe Frazier) are so messed up. Or why it seems to hit the NFL Lineman and linebackers more than defensive backs or receivers who get laid out.
    Last edited by bodhizafa; Tue Mar 29th, 2016 at 11:56 AM.
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Oh for sure NHL has some big hits. My assumption would be the size difference as a average pro hockey player is about 6'1" and 202lbs, where the average pro football player is way higher; offensive guards average is 6'3" and 300lbs. I'd also think that grip on ice can't be as effective as grass, so it is possible a NFL player can deliver more impact based on that as well....could be wrong, just using common sense of a skate vs cleated shoes.

    Looking at that Rugby video it appears to me that they players are not as big as NFL players; especially on the defensive line

    The average NFL players is huge (especially the one delivering the hits): http://www.sprayberryfootball.com/pa...l-player-specs


    http://www.psychguides.com/interact/...erage-athlete/
    Last edited by bulldog; Tue Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:05 PM.
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    Senior Member bodhizafa's Avatar
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    You guys just sent me down a rabbit hole reading up on this stuff
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhizafa View Post
    From the Mayo Clinic:

    Signs and symptoms of CTE usually begin eight to 10 years after repetitive mild traumatic brain injury. These include:
    • Difficulty thinking (cognitive impairment)
    • Impulsive behavior
    • Depression or apathy
    • Short-term memory loss
    • Difficulty planning and carrying out tasks (executive function)
    • Emotional instability
    • Substance abuse
    • Suicidal thoughts or behavior

    You might be correct in saying a lot of them act like children and it has nothing to do with CTE.....but some of them probably are acting like children because of CTE. Poor choices prior to the trauma may have more to do with a shitty personality or just being an asshole like you suggest. But post trauma, the symptoms could be creating the same image.

    Here is the link to the Mayo Clinic page

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20113581

    some interesting stuff. One of the misconceptions is that its mainly caused by large traumatic impacts when in actuality the multiple mild impacts over time are just as bad if not worse. Probably why boxers with long careers who haven't been knocked out much (Joe Frazier) are so messed up. Or why it seems to hit the NFL Lineman and linebackers more than defensive backs or receivers who get laid out.
    again you are trying to argue something I have already agreed with.

    I AM NOT SAYING CTE ISNT REAL.

    I just don't agree with allowing people's actions to be ignored because they want to blame it on something besides their own actions.

    if a man raped a child because a brain tumor gave him pedaphile tendencies I would feel the same way.

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    Senior Member bodhizafa's Avatar
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Marc Savard and Eric Lindros both retired from the NHL because of multiple concussions, be interesting to see if they have CTE down the road. Article I read said they may have test within 5 years for living patients.
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    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhizafa View Post
    You guys just sent me down a rabbit hole reading up on this stuff
    Nice, that is what I wanted....more people learning about it I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie...let me know if you do watch it

    Wish more people on the site would participate! You get tons of people posting about a missed St Patrick day parade, but talk about something serious like the brain and nobody has anything to say
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    Senior Member bodhizafa's Avatar
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    again you are trying to argue something I have already agreed with.

    I AM NOT SAYING CTE ISNT REAL.

    I just don't agree with allowing people's actions to be ignored because they want to blame it on something besides their own actions.

    if a man raped a child because a brain tumor gave him pedaphile tendencies I would feel the same way.
    I see what your saying, I thought you meant that they had agency over their actions and therefore it was pathetic. Your right, you can't ignore the actions, I never said to ignore them. If someone is violent or poses some sort of threat you have to deal with it.

    If someone did become a pedaphile because of a tumor and had no way of controlling themselves you obviously can't let that go on. You have an obligation to treat them or lock them up in some way to keep people safe. But that is also much different then someone who knowingly decides to be a pedaphile and has control over their actions.....that is pathetic and evil.
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhizafa View Post
    I see what your saying, I thought you meant that they had agency over their actions and therefore it was pathetic. Your right, you can't ignore the actions, I never said to ignore them. If someone is violent or poses some sort of threat you have to deal with it.

    If someone did become a pedaphile because of a tumor and had no way of controlling themselves you obviously can't let that go on. You have an obligation to treat them or lock them up in some way to keep people safe. But that is also much different then someone who knowingly decides to be a pedaphile and has control over their actions.....that is pathetic and evil.
    there we go. lol. I'm a little off in my communication today.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Nice, that is what I wanted....more people learning about it I'd be interested to see what you think of the movie...let me know if you do watch it

    Wish more people on the site would participate! You get tons of people posting about a missed St Patrick day parade, but talk about something serious like the brain and nobody has anything to say
    its not motorcycle related. we are only supposed to talk about bikes.

    rolled a quad off a mountain Sunday. does that count for bike related? they have handlebars. you throw your leg over it. lol.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Yeah I don’t think anyone is getting off a crime using a CTE defense…..they should definitely go to prison as they are a threat to society and cannot be trusted or cured. Although there is a chance these people did go crazy because of CTE. I just feel the NFL covered this up for years and this is why they are being sued. Plus CTE is not found till after death so I assume it is the families of these people that are suing a majority of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    its not motorcycle related. we are only supposed to talk about bikes.

    rolled a quad off a mountain Sunday. does that count for bike related? they have handlebars. you throw your leg over it. lol.
    Damn bro...you ok?

    Whatever, I respected the “motorcycle talk” babies, until I see they post nearly nothing and we end up with a boring forum with no action; plus most motorcycle talk has been posted before so there is not much to talk about. People give you crap, but honestly at least you participate and that brings 10X more value to a site than a lurker who never posts.
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Yeah I don’t think anyone is getting off a crime using a CTE defense…..they should definitely go to prison as they are a threat to society and cannot be trusted or cured. Although there is a chance these people did go crazy because of CTE. I just feel the NFL covered this up for years and this is why they are being sued. Plus CTE is not found till after death so I assume it is the families of these people that are suing a majority of the time.

    Damn bro...you ok?

    Whatever, I respected the “motorcycle talk” babies, until I see they post nearly nothing and we end up with a boring forum with no action; plus most motorcycle talk has been posted before so there is not much to talk about. People give you crap, but honestly at least you participate and that brings 10X more value to a site than a lurker who never posts.

    yeah I'm good. first time I ever used a jiu jitsu throw on something without a heartbeat. lol. looped it on a massive climb. took two hours to recovery it.

  22. #22
    Gold Member bulldog's Avatar
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by #1Townie View Post
    yeah I'm good. first time I ever used a jiu jitsu throw on something without a heartbeat. lol. looped it on a massive climb. took two hours to recovery it.
    Good move, could have been worse it sounds. I grew up on 3 wheelers and flipped those so many times...can see why they got banned.

    I'd love a quad. You own one? If so what you got?
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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    Good move, could have been worse it sounds. I grew up on 3 wheelers and flipped those so many times...can see why they got banned.

    I'd love a quad. You own one? If so what you got?
    that one was the polarise sportsman 500. my toy is a Honda trx 450r.

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    Re: Concussion- The Movie and Real Life

    I read this morning there is a test that can be done on a living patient within 7 days of the concussion. The fluid surrounding the brain releases a protein when it is damaged that is detectable in the blood stream.

    So a blood test can start the process of identification.

    This is a pretty interesting topic but I do agree with Townie in that I have no sympathy for a guy who made millions and knew the dangers but decided to proceed. I also agree that this like a lot of sicknesses/illnesses get used as crutches when things go bad. Especially when money becomes part of the conversation.
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