2017 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

[Gramps]

Starting a fresh thread. I didn't bring over the few posts from the old thread that pertained to 2017 but I can if really necessary.

Just trying to keep things organized.

Stoner does look good on the new Duc and JLo got into a groove on day 2. Rossi is happy so those two are also going to be at the front.

Marquez looks a little rattled but it is just testing.

[madvlad]

I think the ones to watch out for are going to be Iannone and Viñales to be honest. Was surprised to see Lorenzo within the top 10 already but well Ducati has been working hard to deliver him a proper set up. It's going to be a very, very interesting season, even better than last season.

[Ted]

I think the ones to watch out for are going to be Iannone and Viñales to be honest. Was surprised to see Lorenzo within the top 10 already but well Ducati has been working hard to deliver him a proper set up. It's going to be a very, very interesting season, even better than last season.

Maybe AI might finally become consistent this year. Can't wait to see 99 in that first race.

[FZRguy]

Stoner is coming back?

[Gramps]

Stoner is coming back?

Man that's a long shot I think. He has it made right now.

[madvlad]

Both Honda and Ducati offered him rather fat contracts to come back and he declined, we won't see Stoner back unfortunately. Just like Lorenzo though I don't like them but their riding skill just brings excitement to this field. With Viñales and Iannone showing the type of pace and what not, I honestly can't wait to see this season. It's anyone's game

[The Black Knight]

Phillip Island test is done and looks to be Marquez v. Vinales this year. Rossi is going to have his hands full and I don't really see him winning much this year. I think Rossi will be a podium contender but not much for wins. 2017 will be a tough season.

[Gramps]

Testing is testing. I agree though there is some pretty tough competition this year. There is also some young guys on good machinery.

I think this season will be entertaining as hell.

[The Black Knight]

I agree, it is testing. But you can tell Vinales is out to prove a point. He's after Marquez's crown and you can bet he doesn't want to let anyone stand in his way. While Rossi is faster at this year's test than last year's. It seems the rest have upped their pace as well. Again, come race day, the usual suspects will be at the front. Be interesting to see if Vinales speed can translate into a whole race. Last year, with the exception of Silverstone, he'd start off great then fade back. Could have been the bike, could have been him or a combination of both. I'm sure being on the Yamaha has done a bit of good for his confidence.

We shall see, the Qatar GP can't come soon enough. I'm tired of no racing and winter is dragging it's feet.

[Gramps]

What are your thoughts on Crutchlow? He seems to be creeping up on the timing charts and no one is paying hi a lot of attention. He could be the dark horse in this thing that plays spoiler at times. I'm not a huge fan of his du to his consistent whining at times but it seems he found a happy spot for now.

Just thoughts.

[The Black Knight]

I think Crutchlow can be a force in some races. See he's in a dangerous spot right now for other riders. He's still got the confidence of the two wins from last year. So he knows he's got the speed to win. He just needs the bike to show up at all the tracks. Honda's have always done well at Phillip Island and his wet race win comes with the obligatory, "well it's anyone's race in the wet". So I think his win at Phillip Island proved a lot and it exposed a chink in the armor of the factory teams. Marquez did his usual win or bin ride at PI, and Rossi couldn't catch Crutchlow. So I think they had better keep an eye on him as he may show up on more than one occasion. If anything, I think he'll be a thorn in the side of the factory teams.

I'm with you on him as a person. I've always thought Crutchlow is fast, but man that guy sure can whine about stuff. It's just his style and delivery. He speaks his mind and has no filter from brain to mouth. Which is good and bad. The good is, you know where he stands on things but the bad is the way he executes his thought process. He has no tact at times.

Going off of last years performances. Of the nine race winners(aside from the top 4 aliens + Vinales) I'd say Crutchlow would be the most likely to repeat again this year. I don't see Dovi getting a sniff at another win(unless it's wet and now that Lorenzo is on a Ducati), Miller was a flash in the pan(which proves anyone can win in the rain), Iannone has a shot(and aside from Crutchlow, he has the best chance of more wins being on the factory Suzuki).

Then mix in some of these new rookies that are going fast. You know they're out to slap down some veteran racers in the process. Which is why I think it will be a tough year, and think Rossi has a lot on his plate(then again, they all do).

I can't call it outright and don't have a crystal ball. But I think we won't see as many different winners like in 2016. What I think we may get, is a return to the old school 990cc era of MotoGP where the races were knock down drag out fights from Lap 1 to the checker flag. Everyone looks very competitive and very fast. The usual suspects will be at the top, but I think even for them it's going to be a battle for every spot this year.

I think 2017 looks good...

[Gramps]

I agree with all your thoughts.

I was actually talking with a friend over dinner last night about Rossi. I guess some insider people(this guy is a little connected) think Rossi is a little tattered by all the PR commitments. He said that Rossi gives everything he can to every commitment and it has taken a toll on his energy for the whole process. So this of course came with the question of "Is this the last season?"

His response and from what he has heard was it could be a wait and see type thing. His source said usually once the season starts it's all about racing and that there is a routine to the season that helps calm down all the outside distractions.

I am personally a Rossi fan all the way. However I don't begrudge every other rider like some Rossi fans do. My fan status comes from two things. I love to see genuine love for the sport and someone who loves what they do at the highest level. I also think he has been and continues to be great for the sport. When he does retire MotoGP will hit somewhat of a plateau as far as ratings and new fan base I predict. I hate to bring a NASCRAP analogy in here but when Dale Earnhardt got killed they had the same problem. I would also say the NBA had the same issue with MJ. They were the faces of the sport at the time which I think Rossi is that to GP.

Anyway I thought that was interesting insight and I thought I would share.

I think Rossi is still very competitive and I guess I don't think about a guy who still wins races and seems just a tick away from another championship, retiring anytime soon. Who knows though. I can't imagine wrestling one of those beasts in my late 30's. He doesn't need the money and in my opinion he doesn't have anything else to prove to be the GOAT. So who knows I guess.

[The Black Knight]

I agree with all your thoughts.

I was actually talking with a friend over dinner last night about Rossi. I guess some insider people(this guy is a little connected) think Rossi is a little tattered by all the PR commitments. He said that Rossi gives everything he can to every commitment and it has taken a toll on his energy for the whole process. So this of course came with the question of "Is this the last season?"

His response and from what he has heard was it could be a wait and see type thing. His source said usually once the season starts it's all about racing and that there is a routine to the season that helps calm down all the outside distractions.

I am personally a Rossi fan all the way. However I don't begrudge every other rider like some Rossi fans do. My fan status comes from two things. I love to see genuine love for the sport and someone who loves what they do at the highest level. I also think he has been and continues to be great for the sport. When he does retire MotoGP will hit somewhat of a plateau as far as ratings and new fan base I predict. I hate to bring a NASCRAP analogy in here but when Dale Earnhardt got killed they had the same problem. I would also say the NBA had the same issue with MJ. They were the faces of the sport at the time which I think Rossi is that to GP.

Anyway I thought that was interesting insight and I thought I would share.

I think Rossi is still very competitive and I guess I don't think about a guy who still wins races and seems just a tick away from another championship, retiring anytime soon. Who knows though. I can't imagine wrestling one of those beasts in my late 30's. He doesn't need the money and in my opinion he doesn't have anything else to prove to be the GOAT. So who knows I guess.

You can tell in Rossi's interviews and with the new launch of the 2017 bike that he's very worn down by all the PR stints. I don't know what it's from, maybe he had a bad Winter off season, maybe he's finally coming to the end of his journey and is a bit saddened by it. Anyone would be, you spend 20+ years doing something and around for the most part the same people, then it comes time for you to retire. It would affect anyone, especially someone that is still young(at 38..) to retire early weighs on the mind.

Rossi is starting to exhibit the same signs as Stoner did when he was nearing his exit. They both just lost the taste for the whole circus. I think Stoner's was a much more pronounced disdain for PR and all the media stuff. However, Rossi is starting to show that he's not as interested as he used to be.

I agree with you though, once the lights drop in Qatar, that may fire him back up to 100%.

I don't think this is his last season, as he's signed for two(2017/1 but I think that unless he does well, this may be his last competitive year(where he's fast and fights for wins). And I'd really hate to see him go out that way. I'd like to see him still being able to grab a few wins and being fast when he retires.

Here's what I think from all the years of watching Rossi race and seeing tons of his interviews. And I don't know the guy personally but I think if by some off chance that he does win the Championship this year. It wouldn't surprise me if he just retires right after and doesn't fulfill his final year of contract. Rossi loves the sport, he loves to race just because he's competitive but I think he'd like to go out on top. I think that's why we've seen him so fast these last few years. The guy has come in 2nd in the championship for three years now, so we know he's not slow. But that's also got to wear him down as well, the whole 2nd best again and 1st loser again reality.

And, I know a lot of people don't want to hear about it and yes everyone has moved on. But I think the fiasco of 2015 really took a lot out of Rossi. Regardless of which side people fall on, most people would step back and say, Rossi got screwed out of the title that year. 2015 was probably one of his better years in awhile, lots of podiums and 4 wins. And it eventually came out in the wash that Marquez did hold Rossi responsible for losing the title that year. Emilio Alzamora had said to a couple of Rossi's people that Marquez held Rossi responsible for the incident in Argentina in 2015. So Sepang 2015 was a perfect storm for Marquez, he was faster and knew he could dick with Rossi enough to cause an incident. I still hold my belief that what Rossi did was right.

I agree, once Rossi leaves MotoGP we will see a very sharp decline in interest. How much?? Has yet to be determined. I think if Rossi were to win another title, then MotoGP would suffer a huge blow when he leaves. It would be a massive comeback story and now the star would be gone. If he doesn't win another championship, then MotoGP will weather his exit better. Other riders will be front and center and the focus will be on the competition of racing and championship rather than on Rossi. It still will be a big deal though, when he does leave.

It is true once the star of any sport leaves the sport suffers. Formula 1 hasn't been the same since Shumacher left. Football went through a golden era of amazing players, guys that would transcend normal players. NASCAR isn't the same with Earnhardt gone. I never liked basketball but you're right, even when I was a kid I knew how awesome Jordan was.

What I'd like to see Rossi do is fuse the Rossi of 2015 with the Rossi of 2016. His 2014/2015 form was ultra consistent, competitive but not as fast. He was always on the podium, always there fighting for a victory. The 2016 Rossi was way less consistent, made lots of mistakes but you could tell Rossi was clearly one of the fastest(if not at times THE fastest) rider on the grid. If he can blend the ability to be consistent and mistake free with the outright raw speed and pace of last year, then I think he's got the tools to be champion again. What I fear is a return to more 2014/15 form for Rossi and on paper it makes more sense for him to be that way. However, I really enjoyed how fast he was last year, regardless of all the mistakes.

[madvlad]

Also not to count that Rossi has a moto3 and 2 team in progress and a long term developmental contract with Yamaha for life after motogp. I see Rossi in this circus for maybe one more year depending on how this season goes and he's not doing bad to be 38 years old. He knows that Yamaha brought in Viñales cause they're taking a gamble for long term on him to be the next big thing at Yamaha with Rossi nearing the exit. Viñales has the traits that could make him a great and well liked champion, while he may not have the same popularity as Rossi obviously but he could get there with a few years, mainly after Rossi is gone. Everyone also keeps saying that it's only a matter of time before the wall in the pit goes up lol, those times have come and gone, Rossi isn't going to jeopardize his life after GP over a stupid feud with Viñales. As far Crutchlow goes, if he can find the consistency, he could be a contender and the surprise as I'm sure he is also very confident given last years wins and giving HRC something to bite their lip about.

[The Black Knight]

Also not to count that Rossi has a moto3 and 2 team in progress and a long term developmental contract with Yamaha for life after motogp. I see Rossi in this circus for maybe one more year depending on how this season goes and he's not doing bad to be 38 years old. He knows that Yamaha brought in Viñales cause they're taking a gamble for long term on him to be the next big thing at Yamaha with Rossi nearing the exit. Viñales has the traits that could make him a great and well liked champion, while he may not have the same popularity as Rossi obviously but he could get there with a few years, mainly after Rossi is gone. Everyone also keeps saying that it's only a matter of time before the wall in the pit goes up lol, those times have come and gone, Rossi isn't going to jeopardize his life after GP over a stupid feud with Viñales. As far Crutchlow goes, if he can find the consistency, he could be a contender and the surprise as I'm sure he is also very confident given last years wins and giving HRC something to bite their lip about.

I agree completely. We are starting to see the beginning of the end for Rossi. He's alluded to wanting to race til 40, but man I don't think he's got it in him. Vinales has a lot of good points working for him. He's not douchy like Lorenzo and seems to be happy most of the time. If he keeps his head down, not ruffle many feathers off track, he'll go far. He is the future for Yamaha.

The wall thing I never agreed with and Rossi was 50% blame on it. From what I gather in reading accounts on the whole situation. It was partially pushed on Rossi by Bridgestone. Bridgestone didn't want the data sharing with Lorenzo who at the time, was riding on Michelins. I think if Rossi would have pushed back the wall would not have come up. But Rossi was ticked off with Lorenzo, so the wall seemed a good idea at the time. It happens to the best of them. In 2010, even I'll admit it. Rossi was starting to believe his own bullsh*t and I think it went to his head. I still believe that his two years with Ducati was probably the best thing for Rossi. It humbled him to the core and made him a much better racer. Look at his times now compared to years ago. Rossi is way faster than ever, but the competition is just as fast. Sometimes people have to hit bottom and fight their way back to the top to really appreciate it to grow and develop the character of a true champion.

LOL!! with your quip about HRC, that has me thinking. It wouldn't surprise me that Crutchlow could be challenging Pedrosa for that second seat. The only problem I see with that, is on his day Pedrosa is as blistering fast as the other aliens. Crutchlow is not. Yes he's won two races but he has yet to show that true alien speed. Pedrosa is an alien, whereas Crutchlow is controlled chaos. And most of the time that controlled chaos ends up in the gravel. Crutchlow is there within sniff distance of being an alien.

Some people might say, well look at the testing times, lots of guys are faster than some of the aliens. I think Pol Espargaro said it best a couple seasons ago. He was actually whining in a interview. That during practice and qualifying he can be faster than Rossi. But then during the race, Rossi would find "another gear" so to speak and dust his ass during the race. It just goes to show how the true aliens are fast. For sure you'll get the Lorenzo's and the Marquez's that just have to be at the top of every time sheet. Lorenzo could order drive thru and still want to see his name at the top of fastest people to order their meal. He's just "that guy". Marquez is somewhat "that guy" as well. For me, from what I've seen. They use it as a gauge for how fast they are and to see if everyone can match them. Rossi, Pedrosa and a few others tend to keep things in reserve and display it on "race day", which is where it matters. They don't hand out trophies for fastest "practice lap" or "most practice laps at the top of the time sheets". And if they did, that's lame and I wouldn't watch racing.

All I know, I can't wait for Qatar GP to get here

[madvlad]

So, the season is cooking up to be an interesting one. A week left, what are your guys' predictions with how pre-season has gone so far?

[The Black Knight]

So, the season is cooking up to be an interesting one. A week left, what are your guys' predictions with how pre-season has gone so far?

Predictions are kind of in my assessments in above posts. But to make things short and to the point. I foresee this season shaping up to be a Marquez v. Vinales battle. I think Rossi will claim a few victories here and there. I think Lorenzo will snag a victory or two as well. It's going to be the main four or five aliens doing the business.

Unless anyone has something for Vinales, he's going to be a force to be reckoned with. The main issue with Vinales will be longevity and can he finish a race as good as he starts one. I think Marquez will some issues this year. He's been falling a lot and having problems with the new fairing and bike. Pedrosa is kind of no where at times, then jumps up the sheets. Lorenzo I think will take a year or two to really get the Ducati up to proper speed.

I just hope Rossi wins Mugello this year. If he can't accomplish anything else, at least with Mugello. I'll be super happy with a single Mugello win.

[Ted]

I give Qatar to a Dovi or 99.

[Gramps]

I give Qatar to a Dovi or 99.

Dovi maybe. 99 would be divine intervention. That dude even admits he doesn't know how to ride that Duck yet.

25 is going to have to learn some racecraft now that he has a fast bike.

Who knows who wins Qatar but it will be fun to watch!

[The Black Knight]

Dovi maybe. 99 would be divine intervention. That dude even admits he doesn't know how to ride that Duck yet.

25 is going to have to learn some racecraft now that he has a fast bike.

Who knows who wins Qatar but it will be fun to watch!

See, that is where I think Vinales might struggle. Sure he's riding a wave of confidence and euphoria because he's suddenly the top alien in speed. The problem is, come race day, the guys that switch to that "it" factor, make their switch. Then it's a whole different ball game. What Vinales may come to realize that being fast isn't enough and he's going to be dicing it up with the heavy hitters for wins.

I think a similar thing happened with Stoner. Lot of people will think I'm taking a dig at Stoner but believe it or not, I have his book "Pushing The Limits" and it's a great book. I'm always interested in what makes the best of the best tick. I also have Rossi's autobiography, "What If I Never Tried". Funny thing is, I haven't read it yet.

Anyways, one of the take aways from Stoner's book is that when he was young, he just won. He won every race he'd enter. Yeah, he lost a few here and there but for the most part he would always win. So when he hit the pro's that kind of mentality just stuck with him. He was just so used to winning. When he jumped on the Ducati and started winning, he let it go to his head.

I think that's one area he really suffered in. He's still one of the fastest guys I've ever seen, and perhaps the fastest. I've never seen someone just right out of the box, start laying down super fast laps. Marquez comes close but he's the only one. But will the winning and all the fastest this and fastest that, Stoner lost his ability to know how to lose. I think that's why he took 08 Laguna so personal, well and a host of other things.

The same could happen with Vinales if he doesn't keep his head in check and feet on the ground. Sure he's fast and awesome but he's unproven and needs to really become one with the aliens.

We'll see how it all pans out. Qatar is a hard race. Everyone is competitive at Qatar. Everyone is anxious to get their season off with a bang.

If I had to pick a Qatar rostrum it'd go something like this:

1st - Marquez, Vinales and maybe Rossi

2nd - Rossi if he can't win, and Pedrosa or Dovi

3rd - Rossi if he can't secure 2nd and really has a bad weekend, Lorenzo or Dovi.

4th(best of the rest) - I'd say Bautista may surprise some folks, along with Folger or Crutchlow. Iannone a strong candidate for 4th.


Now the reason I'm picking Rossi for all three spots is going off of his Day 2 performance. Just because I'm a Rossi fan doesn't cloud what I think of his pace but honestly, from what I've seen. I really think he is sandbagging a bit. The fact that he was nowhere on Day 2 and then towards the end put in that hot lap that was .122 behind Vinales, tells me he's got something up his sleeve.

I do think Rossi is in a bit of trouble with sorting the tires for full race distance and having some front end issues. But I don't think he's making it as dire as it seems. Who knows though, he really could be up a creek without a paddle and we won't know until the season starts.

[madvlad]

Dude what a fucking shit show, that weather has done a number on the weekend. Rossi had issues with his bike at WUP, this isn't looking good for him at least. This race is going to be a cluster fuck

[The Black Knight]

Dude what a fucking shit show, that weather has done a number on the weekend. Rossi had issues with his bike at WUP, this isn't looking good for him at least. This race is going to be a cluster fuck

The other crazy thing I was reading last night, is if it does rain and the track is super shiny because of the water and night race. It may get cancelled altogether. Which would mean, one less race to the season. Capirossi was saying it will be up to the riders to determine what would happen because of the great risk to safety. At this moment all looks good and no rain. You never know though, with is weird as the weather has been, could come out of nowhere come race time.

Yeah, I think this is Vinales race to lose and Marquez will be pushing as hard as possible to fight for the win. Honestly, if Rossi can even sniff the podium would be a miracle in and of itself. I think for today's race, he's a top 5 at best..

Pedrosa has also been all of nowhere. I think this new carcass that Michelin has brought is a little on the soft side. Not just Rossi but Marquez and Lorenzo have also said they don't care for the new tire. Could be another up and down year for Pedrosa as well.

[The Black Knight]

Well, that really wasn't what I was expecting. The winner is who I expected but what the hell did I just watch from the rest??

Big congrats to Vinales, given his pace I think this was the result we expected. Although, didn't figure he's struggle the way he did in the first part of the race. Dovi proving why he's good at the beginning of the season, see if he holds up.

What can I say about old man winter(Rossi). I love it when he makes me eat words and honestly didn't think he had a podium shot given morning warm up and the troubles he's been having. Which, does confirm what I was suspecting, he may have been sandbagging it a bit. Didn't have Vinales pace but he was sure close.

Marquez had a dud of a performance, wonder if Honda may be having some issues. Pedrosa and A. Espargaro were gaining on Marquez towards the end.

And what was that from A. Espargaro anyway?? first top 6 for Aprilia!!! He was all over Pedrosa there at one point, I really hope he can take that team to some better avenues.

Zarco was hilarious, thought we might see history in the making but then the inevitable happened.

Crutchlow back to crashing ways and Lorenzo, wow what I can I say. That has to be a demoralizing race. Teammate is fighting for a win and he's squandering down in 10th. I know Lorenzo will bounce back and figure out how to extract potential out of that Ducati but I couldn't help but have some satisfaction seeing him way down in the order.


me seeing Lorenzo finish down in 11th:


All in all, this was a good race and nice to have the season under way

[Gramps]

I thought it was great race. Vinales on the Yamaha is a good match which seemed apparent throughout testing. He is learning racecraft which he stated in the post race interviews he was being cautious in the first stages of the race. SMART!

Dovi was there but he is consistently good in Qatar. So no surprise but he did better than I expected.

I'm with you on Rossi. He had to be sandbagging. He didn't have winning pace but if the front two would have made a mistake of any kind he would have finished even better. He is the GOAT so I don't know why we are surprised.

JLo will be inconsistent and pretty much a non-factor this year I expect and that makes me smile a little as well. I think Marquez may struggle a little this year as well. He just doesn't look happy with the bike or the direction at this point.

I'm glad it was a good race and I'm glad racing is back!