I had a pretty bad crash last summer... (video)

[Gramps]

I25 is actually a very safe road for motorcycles, if you can stay awake that is. No cross traffic, all traffic moving at about the same speed, and plenty of places to go in the event of an incident.

It is far safer than any mountain zone, where you have a significantly higher chance of animals and debris, cross traffic, unpredictable road conditions, and turns that inspire us to pull an op.

Theoretically this would be true in a perfect world. Good god man have you been on I-25 lately? The cross traffic is the guy in the fast lane that needs to take the next exit. No one is going the same speed at all. I'm going 90 just to get the hell off that ribbon of death as fast as possible.

There are more idiots on that road than I have seen anywhere except Tennessee. Tennessee drivers are a special kind of idiot.

I'll take the canyons any day. At least the animals in the canyons are actually the four legged variety.

[j0ker]

Theoretically this would be true in a perfect world. Good god man have you been on I-25 lately? The cross traffic is the guy in the fast lane that needs to take the next exit. No one is going the same speed at all. I'm going 90 just to get the hell off that ribbon of death as fast as possible.

There are more idiots on that road than I have seen anywhere except Tennessee. Tennessee drivers are a special kind of idiot.

I'll take the canyons any day. At least the animals in the canyons are actually the four legged variety.

Couldn't agree with you more! Especially around the Thornton area!! Funny post!

[teamextreme]

Damn, even in other countries, London, they are saying 50% of motorcycle fatalities are the car/truck fault

Provincial police say more than half of the motorcyclists who died on OPP-patrolled roads last year were killed through no fault of their own.
According to a new OPP report, 27 motorcyclists and four passengers died in 2015 – 17 of those riders were driving properly when they were involved in a fatal crash.
This is the first time police say they have seen this in the last 10 years.
http://london.ctvnews.ca/opp-more-th...-own-1.2904175

Again, not saying to not ride, but just understand the biggest risk.....other drivers!

While I agree, IMO it's usually other drivers at fault, those statistics don't bear that out. You're looking at 50% as some HUGE number and are shocked at it, but you're not realizing what that statistic represents. In any given accident with vehicle A and vehicle B, assuming all things are equal in terms of abilities, etc, the odds of A or B being at fault are 50/50. The very best you can do in terms of equal fault and not showing that one side is more reckless IS 50%. So that statistic doesn't show that cars are more at fault, it shows that it's absolutely equal in terms of fault.

The more telling statistic, IMO, is the one listing the very large (don't recall the number) percentage of m/c crashes are single vehicle, meaning it's quite often someone who got in over their head. I always think of the example listed previously of the 50 yr old who buys the 800 lb Harley as his first bike and takes it up to the mountains. I've heard of lots of those examples ending badly and they probably account for a hefty chunk of the statistics.

[bulldog]

While I agree, IMO it's usually other drivers at fault, those statistics don't bear that out. You're looking at 50% as some HUGE number and are shocked at it, but you're not realizing what that statistic represents. In any given accident with vehicle A and vehicle B, assuming all things are equal in terms of abilities, etc, the odds of A or B being at fault are 50/50. The very best you can do in terms of equal fault and not showing that one side is more reckless IS 50%. So that statistic doesn't show that cars are more at fault, it shows that it's absolutely equal in terms of fault.

The more telling statistic, IMO, is the one listing the very large (don't recall the number) percentage of m/c crashes are single vehicle, meaning it's quite often someone who got in over their head. I always think of the example listed previously of the 50 yr old who buys the 800 lb Harley as his first bike and takes it up to the mountains. I've heard of lots of those examples ending badly and they probably account for a hefty chunk of the statistics.

I agree and that stat does seem a bit high and a lot more variables involved. Yet, even if we cut it in half, that still shows we have a 25% chance of another person causing us harm so it is hard for me to agree that we are 100% in control on a motorcycle. I really wish we were, but I see way too many people driving and not paying attention. I'd love to say we could avoid all crashes, but that seems extreme to me as there will always be a situation that cannot be avoided. Think, when we ride in city, we probably go by 100 intersections and I am to believe a experienced riders is going to be able to check all 100 intersections for a idiot running a red light. Granted a person could be going 50mph, it would give a rider miliseconds to see the person running the red light when they are also travelling at 50mph....then multiply that by the other 99 intersections you pass along with all the other things we are watching for....just doesn't seem possible....we are humans and not computers :duuno:

And that 50 year old man on his first Harley is one I am worried about.....not my skills, but what he lack in skills could do to me.

[FZRguy]

Funny Gramps, but very true. Nate, getting older has a way of making you ride more conservative, so maybe that helps with our diminished reaction time, vision, mobility, etc. I have enough broken parts, and don't want any more. It would be easy for me to give up motorcycle riding at this point, but I would have to replace it with a cool car (Corvette Roadster, Cobra wanna be, or the like).

[FZRguy]

You may or may not agree with this piece by Nick Ienatsch, but it's how I roll. Nice and relaxed whether or not it puts me in a better time continuum.

This is the advice I hope riders heed when dealing with fate: Don’t push time.

There’s such a thing as wrong place at the wrong time. How can we try to avoid being at the wrong place at the wrong time? Like in the intersection when the drunk runs a red light in his Suburban. Next to the semi when the tire explodes. In the corner when Bambi jumps the guardrail. Behind the F150 when the ladder falls off. In all these cases, five seconds earlier or later would have kept us safe. Do your best to let time flow in a normal manner when around motorcycles. There are no guarantees—you still might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the more I hang around this sport, the more I see impatience and pushiness punished.

I’m talking about the rider who pushes everywhere—always tailgating, always impatient, passing too closely, often upset at other traffic, breaking laws due to the desire to “get going.” The metronomic passing of time means nothing to this rider—he is always pushing.

“Everything happens for a reason.” This adage might be best applied to motorcycle riding when things don’t go as quickly or efficiently as possible. Your fuel receipt doesn’t print and you angrily stomp into the station and then try to make up the time it took to stand in line and get your slip of paper. Whatever the annoyance, Everything happens for a reason, might be the best words your mind can find. In the time it took to get your receipt, the Elk wandered all the way across the road.

An example: My brother Bill and I went for a ride up Angeles Crest Highway in 2004. Bill is a long-distance trucker and rides conservatively at the speed limit. We got about three miles up the Crest and came up behind a dark blue Chevy Sonoma going about three mph slower than we were. If I was by myself, I would have passed the truck right away, but I knew my brother wasn’t comfy and we just hung behind the truck and enjoyed the day. About a mile later, we came around a left-hand corner to find a Toyota Tercel smashed against the right-hand guardrail and a Chevy minivan just coming to a stop sideways across the oncoming lane. They had hit head-on when the minivan wandered across the centerline. My brother brought up the crash later that night. He knew I wanted to pass the Sonoma. He wondered where we would have been if we had, so do I.

Tough (and true) example, but this can be a tough activity when things go wrong. We can work hard on our skills to master our surroundings. We can be mentally focused to better interpret our environment. We can spend money to perfect our ride. And we can do our best to not push the flow of time.

[texlurch]

I've crashed more than a few times on the street, and more than I can count in the dirt. All but one dirt crash have been 100% on me. Most of them have been doing stupid things to win stupid prizes.
I've also lost 6 friends to motorcycles. Everyone was avoidable, and entirely their faults.
Over the years (too many) of riding, reading forums, news, youtube.. 99.9% of the time I put the blame squarely on the rider. This of course does not account for the other million crashes I have never heard about, but when you sit down and actually study on what the cause and effect are, and be honest with yourself, the rider put themselves square into the situation that got them on the ground.

How many times have you heard the old "I had to lay it down" line... point of fact once you give up on the bike you give up on avoidance

Ride everyday like it is your last. Assume every single other person on the road is out to kill you every time. You ARE invisible to vast majority of drivers, so keep your space open.

And never, ever ever stop trying to learn to be a better rider, more capable of extending your bikes capabilities as well as your own.

So far as the OP on this thread: bad line, poor lane placement equaled a helicopter ride. Speed that I saw on those videos should not have been an obstacle to making those turns.

[Clovis]

Hi everyone,

I've been busy with work (changed companies recently) and have been meaning to check back in here.

Few answers to questions:

Regarding insurance, the expense, etc.

Insurance is a racket?


Helicopter - The company is Med Trans and they have a straight up evil business practice.

How it works: They apparently bribe local officals to get contracts providing ambulance service but they refuse to go "in network" with ANY of the insurance companies. You see, if they were "In Network" they would have negotiated rates/payments. But by being "out of network" they are free to bill whatever the hell they want to.

Why not just bill a cool million?

In fact, the internet is full of complaints of this company and even the insurance companies complain. One said they have been trying (for years) to add Med Trans to their network but Med Trans refuses whatever they offer.


So what happens is:

Med-Trans shows up, you have no choice and they bill some outrageous amount for their services, $44,000 in my case. My health insurance then pays out "what they would have paid" had Med-Trans been in-network, $7200 and then I'm left with the $37,000 difference. Med-Trans then spends years collecting the remainder. This is what for profit health care gets you!
(Got to love how we pay about 4x in health care cost here in the US yet have the absolute worst in care)


Did the helicopter actually cost $44,000? Hell no! Did it even cost $7200?? Doubtful.


Med-Trans actually called me last week about the remaining $37,000. I told them "Sorry, I don't have another $37,000 to give you" and they graciously offered to settle at a "55% discount" -- $17,000... (plus the $7200 they've already received). Or, I could get a "reduced discount" and pay it over 5 years at zero interest. How nice.


I politely told them thanks but no thanks and I expect I'll need to hire an attorney soon.

I'm also fighting with Allstate over my "optional equipment" coverage. Basically, I have an extra $5000 in coverage for things like my accessories, gear, etc. The problem I'm running into with Allstate is because the bike is totaled, they're only valuing the equipment based on what someone would pay in a private party type sale.

So even though I have close to $10,000 in equipment and $5000 in coverage, they want to pay out $1678.

Basically, this means they'll cover my leathers ($1500) and then give a little under $200 for the thousands in extras... the bike had a full termi exhaust for that matter.


Not sure what I can do about this other then file a complaint with the insurance commission and take my policies elsewhere. We send $5K annually to Allstate and have been a customer since 2003. This really makes me regret that.

[FZRguy]

I agree that health insurance is a racket, and insurance companies control health care in our country. However, free and open "for profit" health care would lead to competition. Competition would go a long way to ending price gouging like you experienced, Clovis. Have you ever asked you PCP or specialist what a particular procedure costs? They have no idea, and neither does the front desk. Billing might have a clue, but they will give you an estimate at best based on your insurance carrier, network, plan, copay, deductible, etc. You really have no idea at time of service. Hospital care costs are much worse and you need a CPA to figure out a 10 page hospital billing. Maybe, the new administration and Congress can provide some relief for all this nonsense, but it looks like politics as usual in DC so far.

[j0ker]

Maybe, the new administration and Congress can provide some relief for all this nonsense, but it looks like politics as usual in DC so far.

You can bet your ass this will only get worse for us during the next 4 years.

[#1Townie]

too bad we had last administration that created this nightmare.

[The Black Knight]

You can bet your ass this will only get worse for us during the next 4 years.

[#1Townie]

MURICA!

[j0ker]

too bad we had last administration that created this nightmare.

​The Affordable Care Act is hardly a "nightmare". What a joke to compare it to one. Roughly 20 million people are signed up for AFA coverage, a large number of them, ironically, Trump voters. The REALLY funny thing is that AFA is modeled after the health care bill Mitt Romney had for his state as Governor. Everyone loved that, and it's how Obama got AFA to pass with bi-partisan approval. But, because ignorant dumbasses choose to believe its Obama care and monkey fueled or even Socialism, they want to dismantle it, while all the lawyers and Dr.s and politicians and health care providers laugh their asses off on their way to the bank. House and Senate members are allowed to purchase greatly discounted private health insurance offered through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, which covers more than 8 million other federal employees, retirees and their families. You realize that congress and the supreme court all have the same benefits as AFA only government backed? So, do all the presidents current and past. I don't understand why that too good for everyone else?

[teamextreme]

Well, a nice motorcycle thread about someone's misfortunate accident and what we can learn from it, has turned to shit because people insist on inserting their bulllshit political opinions everywhere they can. This is the same reason I quit Facebook months ago.

[#1Townie]

he's just angry we have a Cheeto for president. lol

[j0ker]

he's just angry we have a Cheeto for president. lol

Annoying Orange!

[The Black Knight]

Well, a nice motorcycle thread about someone's misfortunate accident and what we can learn from it, has turned to shit because people insist on inserting their bulllshit political opinions everywhere they can. This is the same reason I quit Facebook months ago.

Man, I quit Facebook back in 2011 for the same reasons. Wasn't so much the political stuff that bothered me. What really drove me over the edge were all of the pointless and useless posts/comments about where someone was going or what they had for lunch that day. Those sort of things aren't news worthy and no one cares about that stuff.

[bulldog]

Hi everyone,

I've been busy with work (changed companies recently) and have been meaning to check back in here.

Few answers to questions:

Regarding insurance, the expense, etc.

Insurance is a racket?


Helicopter - The company is Med Trans and they have a straight up evil business practice.

How it works: They apparently bribe local officals to get contracts providing ambulance service but they refuse to go "in network" with ANY of the insurance companies. You see, if they were "In Network" they would have negotiated rates/payments. But by being "out of network" they are free to bill whatever the hell they want to.

Why not just bill a cool million?

In fact, the internet is full of complaints of this company and even the insurance companies complain. One said they have been trying (for years) to add Med Trans to their network but Med Trans refuses whatever they offer.


So what happens is:

Med-Trans shows up, you have no choice and they bill some outrageous amount for their services, $44,000 in my case. My health insurance then pays out "what they would have paid" had Med-Trans been in-network, $7200 and then I'm left with the $37,000 difference. Med-Trans then spends years collecting the remainder. This is what for profit health care gets you!
(Got to love how we pay about 4x in health care cost here in the US yet have the absolute worst in care)


Did the helicopter actually cost $44,000? Hell no! Did it even cost $7200?? Doubtful.


Med-Trans actually called me last week about the remaining $37,000. I told them "Sorry, I don't have another $37,000 to give you" and they graciously offered to settle at a "55% discount" -- $17,000... (plus the $7200 they've already received). Or, I could get a "reduced discount" and pay it over 5 years at zero interest. How nice.


I politely told them thanks but no thanks and I expect I'll need to hire an attorney soon.

I'm also fighting with Allstate over my "optional equipment" coverage. Basically, I have an extra $5000 in coverage for things like my accessories, gear, etc. The problem I'm running into with Allstate is because the bike is totaled, they're only valuing the equipment based on what someone would pay in a private party type sale.

So even though I have close to $10,000 in equipment and $5000 in coverage, they want to pay out $1678.

Basically, this means they'll cover my leathers ($1500) and then give a little under $200 for the thousands in extras... the bike had a full termi exhaust for that matter.


Not sure what I can do about this other then file a complaint with the insurance commission and take my policies elsewhere. We send $5K annually to Allstate and have been a customer since 2003. This really makes me regret that.

Sorry man, but I have to say it.....you understand that helicopter ride may have saved your life right? I agree, the fee is ridiculous, but in these situations seconds matter and there is a possibility you could have died if you did not get this helicopter. From what I know, it is not the responders choice as to which helicopter they send....it's based on the closest one to your location. Same with a Ambulance......closest to scene gets the call. There is no negotiations as they feel time is the essence. The medical staff in the helicopter has no say over billing either and they are simply doing their jobs.

Sorry, man, but for a service that possibly saved your life, you seem to be very un-appreciative of it...I get the money sucks, but at least you are still alive

P.S. Not paying medical bills is exactly why these services like this are so high! One person like this refuses to pay, it gets passed on to the people who do pay......hence why cost are so high. In other countries, you pay up front (cash or credit card) if not they will not provide the service......as American's we feel this is wrong,but it has also led to some of the highest medical costs in world.


So maybe some help. Usually these are based on "Emergency Services" and most insurances will cover if you appeal based on the "emergency clause". Here is one guy that did it and was successful with BCBS. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-ed-...420-story.html

My own story had a happy ending. After pointing out to Blue Cross Blue Shield that I couldn't have shopped around for an in-network helicopter ride, given that I was strapped to a back board with a broken neck, my insurer recognized that the bill was for emergency care. I'd already hit my out-of-pocket limit, so Blue Cross Blue Shield paid the entire cost of my flight.

******Although all depends on your plans "out-of-pocket" cap and if you met that. This is another reason that in medical insurance "you get what you pay for", so hopefully you had a decent plan with a our of pocket cap that was below what you owe*******


Article about Medical Helicopter costs......average is about $12K-$25K, so their offer of settling for $17K, unfortunately sounds about right http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34419018/n.../#.WOuMQdLytD8

This explains there viewpoint on the cost:
High cost of readiness
What’s not apparent from the per-mile fees is the high cost of readiness, said Yale, whose own operators transport about 98,000 patients a year in 43 states.
“You’re paying for the capacity to be able to respond,” said Yale.
Costs include aircraft that can range from $2 million to $6 million, on-board medical equipment that can include $10,000 heart monitors, and the price of round-the-clock staffing with top-tier emergency doctors and nurses, who must be not only highly trained, but also able to operate at a moment's notice under the most difficult circumstances. Jet fuel prices also fluctuate widely. “We’ve been forced to pay for these services with the few unfortunate people who need it,” said Hutton.
About 40 percent of patients who require emergency air transport have some kind of private health insurance, but about only about 60 percent of insurers pay the full costs, Hutton said. Some insurers pay as little as $300 out of a $17,000 bill, for instance. Others can stall on payment, forcing air transport companies to bill and re-bill.

[bulldog]

I'm not going to get into politics, but to stay on topic of this thread, I will say if Clovis was under a ACA (Affordable Care Act), his out of pocket maximum would have been no more than $6,850 for an individual plan and $13,700 for a family plan before marketplace subsidies in 2016.

Out-of-Pocket Maximums Under the Affordable Care Act

The ACA limits out-of-pocket maximums, the max amount of costs for covered services you’ll pay out-of-pocket in a policy period on your health plan.

• For 2017, your out-of-pocket maximum can be no more than $7,150 for an individual plan and $14,300 for a family plan before marketplace subsidies.
• In 2015, your out-of-pocket maximum could be no more than $6,600 for an individual plan and $13,200 for a family plan before marketplace subsidies.
• In 2016, your out-of-pocket maximum could be no more than $6,850 for an individual plan and $13,700 for a family plan before marketplace subsidies.

Under ACA (this was made exactly for the reason Clovis is having trouble with; to stop being going broke over high costs):

1. Emergency Services (Trips to the emergency room). Care you receive for conditions that could lead to serious disability or death if not immediately treated, such as accidents or sudden illness. Typically, this is a trip to the emergency room and includes transport by ambulance. You cannot be penalized for going out-of-network or for not having prior authorization.

[#1Townie]

but would have been paying 1100 a month. lol



#cheetolivesmatter. lol

[bulldog]

but would have been paying 1100 a month. lol



#cheetolivesmatter. lol

Which would have been $13,200 for the year.......versus $44K.....under ACA would have been $6,600. In end that is a $24,200 savings ($37,400 - $13,200)


Like I said, healthcare is a gamble....sometimes you need it, and sometimes you don't....we never know.


It's not that high though unless Clovis is over 60.
Here are the average costs though for the Platinum ACA plan (lowest out of pocket costs):
Platinum plans offer the lowest out-of-pocket costs for covered medical services among the four types of Obamacare plans. Not surprisingly, their average premium is the highest.
Individual Age Profile 2017 Average Premium 2016 Average Premium Increase
30 year-old $553.15 $482.87 15%
40 year-old $622.84 $543.68 15%
50 year-old $870.42 $759.81 15%
60 year-old $1,322.69 $1,154.51 15%

[Aaron]

"I'm not going to get into politics..."

Proceeds to write two long political replies. Just STFU already, nobody wants to hear it.

[bulldog]

"I'm not going to get into politics..."

Proceeds to write two long political replies. Just STFU already, nobody wants to hear it.

You're a idiot and was still based on the topic; how it related to the crash and how insurance comes into it...sheesh this is why dumb guys become cops after high school

Then you see I tried to help the guy by saying to fight his insurance company....more than you did


And anyways, how did the ACA become politics.....this is a government medical product like Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare....not to mention still exists under Trump's administration