2017 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

[madvlad]

The bike still doesn't seem as good as pre-season. But in the interest of Valencia being fun, it'd be fun to have MV first with Dovi second or third and 93 off the steps.

In preseason they were still in the 2016 platform really with the exception of Rossi having the new engine on there. That's the reason why they did well for the first part of the season but once they introduced that 2017 chassis, well the rest is history

[The Black Knight]

Man and the rain fucks it up once again, motherf... happy Dovi took the win but man doesn't look like Lorenzo was going to let him by as even with the "suggested mapping change" he was still running faster and well obviously that near lowside at T15 was not staged to let him by lol... I see Rossi surrendering his seat to Zarco past 2018, there is no way Yamaha will let him renew past that point competitive or not. Zarco and Viñales will be teammates past 2018 imo

I don't know man, we'll have to wait and see how the factory duo fare on the new bike. I'm sure Yamaha will come up with something to try and see if it works. They will have a 2018 bike ready for the post Valencia race, and that will give them a direction to go.

To me, the problem seemed to be Yamaha lost their way when the temps went up. Their bike started to eat the rear tire and then once they got into a rain situation, they found out their bike has a bad problem with running in the wet. So to me, that points to a chassic problem, and also a problem running with the compulsory software that is available. I don't think Yamaha have done as well with the software compared to Honda or Ducati. You can see Ducati have seemed to benefited from it, since it was Ducati that the software was used as a guinea pig on. So they got a bit of a head start on it.

For me, the 2015 and 2016 bikes were Yamaha's best on offer. The 2015 because of the old factory software that the factories could run, and then the 2016 bike was the best overall package in all environments.

Not sure Rossi will surrender anything to Zarco. Have to look at it, in 2018 if that's Rossi's last year, then 2019 will have someone new. Zarco will be close to 30 by then. I think Yamaha will want to find another "young gun" to work with Vinales. Zarco is fast but he's still not Vinales or Rossi fast. I think, if both Rossi and Vinales were on last year's bike(2016), they would blow Zarco away. Look at last season, P. Espargaro and B. Smith were on the 2015 bike, and couldn't get a sniff of Rossi or Lorenzo. Zarco isn't that good, he's faster than Espargaro and Smith but not alien fast.

I really think the 2017 bike is making Zarco's 2016 bike look fast, because that's just how crappy the 2017 bike is.

In preseason they were still in the 2016 platform really with the exception of Rossi having the new engine on there. That's the reason why they did well for the first part of the season but once they introduced that 2017 chassis, well the rest is history

Way I understood it, they had the 2017 bike from the get go(pre-season and first few races), and that's why Vinales was so fast. He was on the first iteration of the 2017 bike(which is the bike he liked). Rossi was just having dismal results so they started to tweak the bike(from Le Mans on). From what I gather as well, it hasn't been concrete confirmed but that Vinales has switched back to the earlier model of the 2017 bike and that's why he's doing a little better in the dry. But they still haven't solved the wet problems no matter which bike they guys use.

I'm getting ready to watch the race now, I wasn't going to stay up til 1AM for a race that I knew had a good chance of having rain. So there went the shot of a good dry race. When I woke up around 530 and saw the updates of the race, saw it was a wet one and knew it.

[Spiderman]

... doesn't look like Lorenzo was going to let him by as even with the "suggested mapping change" he was still running faster and well obviously that near lowside at T15 was not staged to let him by lol...

I was wondering about that "suggested mapping change" - was that to give him a little less power just so Dovi could get by? ... I was also thinking Lorenzo did that on purpose ran too deep into T15), even though the announcers were quite convinced it couldn't have been staged.

[madvlad]

I was wondering about that "suggested mapping change" - was that to give him a little less power just so Dovi could get by? ... I was also thinking Lorenzo did that on purpose ran too deep into T15), even though the announcers were quite convinced it couldn't have been staged.

The suggested mapping was obviously part of them telling him to back off but even after he did change it he was still running a good pace. That T15 incident was definitely not staged nor anything of that sort, that dude almost lost that fucker lol. I honestly don't think he was going to let him by regardless. Even after the fuck up there he powered that thing down the straight and stayed rather close to Dovi for a while. I genuinely don't think he gave a shit about Dovi and his title chances as we all have known him to go for glory and that win with Ducati would have put him back on Ducatis non shit list, granted also with deciding to also back off I'm sure the big dogs in Bologna probably weren't mad about that either. It's one of those gray areas to be honest but in my eyes I don't think he was going to just let him by, he was going to make Dovi work for it a bit at least. You saw the red scrape of his knee puck all across T15, that was crazy. Not sure how he kept that upright.

[The Black Knight]

The suggested mapping was obviously part of them telling him to back off but even after he did change it he was still running a good pace. That T15 incident was definitely not staged nor anything of that sort, that dude almost lost that fucker lol. I honestly don't think he was going to let him by regardless. Even after the fuck up there he powered that thing down the straight and stayed rather close to Dovi for a while. I genuinely don't think he gave a shit about Dovi and his title chances as we all have known him to go for glory and that win with Ducati would have put him back on Ducatis non shit list, granted also with deciding to also back off I'm sure the big dogs in Bologna probably weren't mad about that either. It's one of those gray areas to be honest but in my eyes I don't think he was going to just let him by, he was going to make Dovi work for it a bit at least. You saw the red scrape of his knee puck all across T15, that was crazy. Not sure how he kept that upright.

I don't think Lorenzo was going to let Dovi by either. Honestly, I wouldn't have held it against Lorenzo either. I'm of the opinion that I think Team Orders stink and shouldn't be in racing. If your main guy can't get it down and pass everyone for the win, then I really get pissed off when teams want riders to throw the race so that the other guy that's in contention for the title can get some more points.

I remember back in 2014 when Aprilia showed the sign to Melandri to let Guintoli by so he could gain more points towards the WSBK crown. Sylvain wasn't fast enough and Melandri had to slow down to let him by. Then Kawasaki did it to Baz, because Sykes wasn't fast enough, so Baz had to let him by.

I just think it's kind of cheesy to make another rider give up their chance for victory, their spot on the top step of the podium just to help out the team. At the end of the day, the team ain't the one riding the bike. Sure they made it all possible to ride the bike and get it to the point of being a winning bike, but at the end of the day, there's only one guy that rides it.

[Gramps]

Well here we are. I think the championship is pretty easy to predict but I'm still rooting for Dovi to win it.

What are your predictions?

[salsashark]

^^ My thoughts as well... I think it's a tall ask, but would love to see Dovi take it home... for both him and Ducati.

[madvlad]

God man, what a whack ass way to finish this season... Lorenzo shows the true bitch that he is yet again and sucks that Dovi had to pay the price. Lorenzo is going to get his ass reamed by Ducati when he goes back to the garage. What a heartbreaker for Dovi man, very upsetting. Gigi a true class act and went out to congratulate his team and also the HRC side.

[The Black Knight]

God man, what a whack ass way to finish this season... Lorenzo shows the true bitch that he is yet again and sucks that Dovi had to pay the price. Lorenzo is going to get his ass reamed by Ducati when he goes back to the garage. What a heartbreaker for Dovi man, very upsetting. Gigi a true class act and went out to congratulate his team and also the HRC side.

Thing is, as much as I don't like Lorenzo, he earned my respect today for not giving in to stupid team orders. Let's face it, Dovi didn't have the speed to challenge for anything today. Even he knew he didn't have it in all of the FP's and his Q2 wasn't that great. So while I was hoping Dovi would have found some speed to at least challenge for the win, it wasn't to be and he didn't have it today. I don't really think that if Lorenzo let him by, that Dovi had anything for the front three either. He may have tried to get a sniff of Pedrosa, but Dani and Zarco were just faster today. So Lorenzo earned my respect today because at the end of the day, he's still racing for positions, wins and points as well. The one trump card Lorenzo has in his pocket for when Ducati brass chew his ass, all he has to say, "Dovi should have been faster today." And that's really the only truth there is. Dovi should have been faster.

Big congrats to Dani Pedrosa!! Love that he took the win from Zarco. I don't like Zarco one bit and enjoyed watching him lose that race.

And another big congrats and thumbs up to Factory Team Yamaha!! Not only did you get your asses rammed by an overrated guy on "last year's" bike, but you did it with such style. I mean 5th and what 12th?? Damn!! those are results that can be built upon. Can we get more of the same for next year please?? Because this is how championships and races get won.... Errr wait a minute?? You guys didn't win, oh that's right. Team Yamaha was all of f**king no where close to the podium today!! Bravo gentlemen, bravo...

Congrats to Suzuki with Rins taking that 4th. If I'm not mistaken he and P. Espagaro started from the pit lane. Damn, to go from last to 4th is a good result, he even passed the Factory Yamaha's in the process. Oops did I say that??

It's a bummer for Dovi, I had hopes he could do it. I wanted him to win for him, not for Ducati. Still love that Ducati got slapped down today in principle.

Oh well, bring on 2018. Objective is clear for everyone in 2018, just be faster than the Honda and Marquez.

[madvlad]

I disagree, I'm sure if Lorenzo would have been in Dovi's shoes, it would have been him bitching and moaning, throwing tantrums like he always does. Lorenzo was controlling the pace and disrupting Dovizioso, it's more than obvious. Rossi like Dovi always find something special come race day, Dovi was turning faster than him about mid race which is when the messages started to come on and he disregarded. He signed his sentence at Ducati already, the brass here is much different than the ones at Yamaha. At Yamaha he got away with it all. Given that Dovi is obviously rider #1, Lorenzo has a lot to lose here but as usual, he doesn't think because he's an arrogant prick and thinks the world revolves around him. There was a reason the message came up and even in his pit board, Dovi was starting to cook up but this moron interrupted him and stuck his nose where he shouldn't have. It is what it is now on this end... as far as Yamaha goes, they have a long off season of work to make a credible bike again, it's incredible how far off the reservation they went with this bike and the worst of it is that they decided to carry on with it when both Vale and Viñales had chances of contending not too long ago.

[The Black Knight]

I disagree, I'm sure if Lorenzo would have been in Dovi's shoes, it would have been him bitching and moaning, throwing tantrums like he always does. Lorenzo was controlling the pace and disrupting Dovizioso, it's more than obvious. Rossi like Dovi always find something special come race day, Dovi was turning faster than him about mid race which is when the messages started to come on and he disregarded. He signed his sentence at Ducati already, the brass here is much different than the ones at Yamaha. At Yamaha he got away with it all. Given that Dovi is obviously rider #1, Lorenzo has a lot to lose here but as usual, he doesn't think because he's an arrogant prick and thinks the world revolves around him. There was a reason the message came up and even in his pit board, Dovi was starting to cook up but this moron interrupted him and stuck his nose where he shouldn't have. It is what it is now on this end... as far as Yamaha goes, they have a long off season of work to make a credible bike again, it's incredible how far off the reservation they went with this bike and the worst of it is that they decided to carry on with it when both Vale and Viñales had chances of contending not too long ago.

I agree, had the tables been reverse, Lorenzo would complain. That's his style and I'm sure he would make noise about it. However, Dovi was indeed faster, it could be seen in several points in the race. He would close right up on Lorenzo. My thing is, just pass Lorenzo if you are that much faster. Just make a hard pass, force him wide and go about your business. I think Dovi was waiting for the easy pass or let through from Lorenzo. Nothing is free in life, so why should a teammate letting you through be any different??

I think still if Dovi was a lot faster, then he wouldn't have had to worry about Lorenzo's pace. He could have been up there mixing it up and possibly force a mistake on Marquez. That's the great thing about Marquez, he's his own worst enemy at times. The guy doesn't know when he's already won, he just keeps trying to push and push. He almost paid for it today with that incident in T1. Had Dovi been able to fight with some real pace today, that may have been the nail in the coffin for Marquez. Had Dovi been up there fighting for the win, it may have forced Marquez into something else and turned the tide. Yet, with Dovi languishing behind Lorenzo, we never got to see it.

I'm with you, Yamaha made a direct B-line right off the reservation this season. It's almost as if they were thinking during the season, "how can we really cock this bike and season up??" Whatever they did, it worked because they were all of nowhere this year. Assen was the last win and to me, that's inexcusable. Asses need to be kicked at Yamaha from the top to the bottom.

I will throw this out there for the conspiracy theory. Maybe Lorenzo was paying Marquez back for 2015, in keeping Dovi in check and out of the race???

[The Black Knight]

And just to stir the pot even more...

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/other...RETIRE-Moto-GP

[Gramps]

2017 has been a great season. Several things became apparent throughout the campaign.

Ducati has a contender. Dovi is great on the bike and Lorenzo can be fast but has trouble staying on the bike. I think it is also apparent just how selfish Lorenzo is as far as being a teammate. I think it gives a hint at why he didn't/couldn't get along with Rossi.

Marquez is just an awesome rider. He does what all the greats have done at times to get to the be called great. All the greats have ridden bad bikes fast. He bends reality sometimes with his acrobatic saves. I agree with Dovi that he is on a different level at this point.

Pedrosa will retire without a championship I'm afraid. I actually think he has become a good spokesperson for the sport.


Zarco could be interesting to watch next year.

Yamaha needs a total bike reconfiguration. I don't think the 2016 chassis is the answer. The Yami engineers can and will get that bike back into contention at some point. I just think they will go back to the drawing board. The technology seems to be cyclical.

Rossi retirement - Who knows? Only Rossi. Would I admit he is probably closer than ever to going that direction? Yes. I still think he is competitive on good equipment but he can't ride around the terrible Yamaha at this point. If you compare the two Yamaha riders though he is still the faster rider overall.

[Ted]

Yamaha needs a total bike reconfiguration.

Do you mean a reconfiguration called Lorenzo ?

[madvlad]

Meh not buying the retirement bit just yet, that he is close to retirement, yes we all know this but if Yamaha doesn't deliver next season, we may have seen the last of Rossi on 2 wheels. Not his fault Yamaha delivered a shit bike and components this season and even then just like Gramps said, he still finished rather ahead of Viñales nonetheless and not far behind on points in the standings.

I truly believe this solidifies the point that MM helped him in 2015 and I'm sure Lorenzo wanted the title to remain in Spanish hands. Lorenzo even rushed to parc to congratulate Marc, he's never been that type of dude. They have an obvious understanding, don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.

As far as what Ted said, thats funny dude... Lorenzo would have gone into self destruct mode if he would have rode the Yamaha this year just with the Ducati which has been a far superior ride this season, he still managed to do jack shit with it but make an ass of himself, thats for damn sure. He needs to get it through his head that he won't ever be a Valentino Rossi. He's an overrated dipshit. I'm sure Ducati is regretting having spent 17m on that hothead

[The Black Knight]

2017 has been a great season. Several things became apparent throughout the campaign.

Ducati has a contender. Dovi is great on the bike and Lorenzo can be fast but has trouble staying on the bike. I think it is also apparent just how selfish Lorenzo is as far as being a teammate. I think it gives a hint at why he didn't/couldn't get along with Rossi.

Marquez is just an awesome rider. He does what all the greats have done at times to get to the be called great. All the greats have ridden bad bikes fast. He bends reality sometimes with his acrobatic saves. I agree with Dovi that he is on a different level at this point.

Pedrosa will retire without a championship I'm afraid. I actually think he has become a good spokesperson for the sport.


Zarco could be interesting to watch next year.

Yamaha needs a total bike reconfiguration. I don't think the 2016 chassis is the answer. The Yami engineers can and will get that bike back into contention at some point. I just think they will go back to the drawing board. The technology seems to be cyclical.

Rossi retirement - Who knows? Only Rossi. Would I admit he is probably closer than ever to going that direction? Yes. I still think he is competitive on good equipment but he can't ride around the terrible Yamaha at this point. If you compare the two Yamaha riders though he is still the faster rider overall.

Yeah, I just threw that up there. I think Rossi will retire when he's ready and I think websites are just frothing at the mouth to see who can break the news first. I believe Rossi when he says he'll re-evaluate his situation next season within the first several races. So, going by what Rossi said, I'm thinking by Mugello we'll see his decision. Rossi has always said, if you're fast in Jerez, you're usually fast everywhere. So, I'm guessing that's where he will have his answer by next season. Unless he just flat blows us all away and decides either today or over the winter break to retire. I don't see it happening yet though.

Yamaha does need a new configuration. I will say though, I think the 2016 bike is a good yard stick to go off of though. Look how well Zarco did with it, and he's not that fast. Had Rossi and Vinales been on the 2016 bike, I'd be willing to bet good money, they would have trounced Zarco all year long. He just looks that good, because the bikes(2017) they are riding are just that bad. I agree, Yamaha will get it right, but when?? Is the question. Could be next year, could be down the road some. I think if they use the 2016 bike as a reference point and go from there, they should have some good ideas. Really, and I'm no engineer, I would just take a 2016 bike, work on it through the winter and just call it a 2018 bike for next year. Give it a little more power for the straights and keep the same bike for the most part though. Really, it can't hurt over what they have now.

Zarco might be interesting next year, unless Rossi and Vinales are given a proper race bike, then Zarco will be nowhere. He's good, but not alien fast yet. I'm with you, Rossi is clearly the fastest of the Yamaha riders, has been for at least the last two seasons. I think 2016 is no question Rossi was the fastest on the grid, just couldn't stay on the bike to save his life. But, Rossi on the 2016 vs. Zarco on the 2016 is two different results. Rossi was fast everywhere last year, Zarco has been fast in only some venues.

Pedrosa is a great wing man though. He won't win a title I agree but will go down as one of the best racers to never lift the crown.

At this point, Marquez just can't put a foot wrong. He's always saving himself from big crashes. He had 27 crashes this year!! His thing, he only had three while racing and the rest during FP's or Q's. That will catch up to him though, we saw it in 2015 where he ate sh*t in Argentina trying to stay with Rossi. I think at some point his fortunes will run out and if he doesn't change his style soon, he's going to be the new Crashlow, which he basically already is, just with 4 premier class titles to his name. This was a season of crashing, and I think if everyone else stayed on their bikes, Marquez would have had a much harder time winning the crown.

Dovi is a great rider and I think he's riding in his best form. He's certainly proved he's an alien and has the speed. Whether he has that killer driver and instinct that the other champions have is yet to be seen. He didn't show it today in order to get past Lorenzo.

Lorenzo's a dick, no doubt about that. He always will be. But I respect the guy for today. He showed that he's a racer and paid to win races as well, or at least fight for the podium. He's got sponsors to make happy as well. Sure, he's riding in a team and riding for Ducati. But, it's not right to make a racer move over for a slower teammate, just so the other guy can get more points. That's sleazy and cutting a guy's legs off while racing. If you can't win the championship on your own, you don't deserve it. If you win the championship through your own merit, it can never be questioned or diminished in life. If someone helps you, then you'll always have that cloud hanging over your head and in the back of your mind thinking, "am I really good enough?"

Hence, why Lorenzo's 2015 championship will forever be stamped with a asterisk by it. In my opinion it was a hollow championship, that he intentionally tried to orchestrate in his favor. The collusion between him and Marquez will hold an asterisk as well. The whole 2015 championship will forever in my eyes be a tainted, fake and hollow paper championship for Lorenzo. Then again, had Rossi just been faster and won more, he wouldn't have had that mountain to climb either.

Which is one area where I've been critical of Rossi. I have the highest respect and admiration for Rossi, he'll always be my favorite and the GOAT to me. But damnit man!! If you can't win races, you aren't going to win that 10th title. Winning races, makes winning championships easier. Also staying on the damn bike during the race helps as well. Not making bonehead mistakes(Misano 2015) in flag-to-flag races helps as well. Racing Pedrosa harder in Sachsenring and Aragon(both 2015) to secure more points for the last podium position helps as well. 2015 he was fast and consistent, just should have won more races.

Do you mean a reconfiguration called Lorenzo ?

Yeah, he's done wonders for the Ducati reconfiguration hasn't he?? Dovi - 6, Lorenzo - 0....

And before anyone says, we'll he's done better than Rossi on the Ducati. Remember, two completely different machines. Rossi had a pile of a bike to ride, and this year's Ducati is a championship contending bike.

[blaircsf]

I'm a bit surprised JL didn't let Dovi by, but I don't think it really mattered either. If Dovi had the pace to catch and pass the leaders, he would of been able to get past JL. He closed up at times, but then would drop back again. Even if MM hadn't made that save in turn 1 ( ) and crashed, Dovi still had to win which I just don't think was a possibility today. On the other hand, it seems strange for JL to ignore it (he can't say he didn't see it this time) for 4th. Irritating your teammate and your employer for a 4th place doesn't quite seem worth it.

[madvlad]

With the risks that MM took which were very unnecessary really, if Dovi would have been able to put pressure instead of just having to deal with douchebag there, maybe just maybe that would have brought the pressure on MM to fuck it up as it was his race to lose. Gigi mentioned in the interview that he wasn't upset at Lorenzo but his face and body language said different. If they didn't think that Dovi had it then why even bother throwing the message out there and insist over several laps including the pit board? Makes no sense.

[salsashark]

Well hell... turned off the auto-renewal for MotoGP.com since their streaming SUCKS! When I finally got some time to watch the race yesterday, those bastards had already cancelled me out. But, from reading some of the comments above, sounds like it would have been a shit-show of a race that would have just pissed me off.

On to next year...

[madvlad]

Well hell... turned off the auto-renewal for MotoGP.com since their streaming SUCKS! When I finally got some time to watch the race yesterday, those bastards had already cancelled me out. But, from reading some of the comments above, sounds like it would have been a shit-show of a race that would have just pissed me off.

On to next year...

Oh dude as soon as the last day and race are over they start asking for money hahaha, they'll cut you off quick. Yeah the race wasn't anywhere as good as it should have been

[blaircsf]

Apparently both factory Yamaha riders were using the 2016 chassis on Sunday.

[madvlad]

Apparently both factory Yamaha riders were using the 2016 chassis on Sunday.

I highly doubt that, they were superbly fast on the 2016 chassis. Hell look at Zarco lol

[The Black Knight]

Apparently both factory Yamaha riders were using the 2016 chassis on Sunday.

I highly doubt that, they were superbly fast on the 2016 chassis. Hell look at Zarco lol

They were on the 2016 chassis(Rossi and Vinales confirmed this), however most of the articles I've read, don't mention what engine they were running. Engine allocation is only for this year, so they had to put a 2017 engine into the 2016(yeah I know, we were led to believe that this couldn't happen, well it did). If they were to use a 2016 engine, that would have meant a new engine used and at this stage in the championship, all the big teams have opened their engines for the year, hence getting a penalty for a new engine.

The other factor is that both Rossi and Vinales have no experience with the 2016 chassis with the new sh*tty 2017 Michelin tires. The only one who does have this data and is used to it is Zarco, which is why he ran so well.

Another factor is that Rossi and Vinales only used the 2016 chassis from the morning warm-up and race. So they have zero set-up time. Vinales had an issue and only did two laps on the bike, while Rossi just trolled around and found a setting that was sort of comfortable and used it. Not exactly a full race weekend on a chassis with setup time for this year's tire allocation.

You want to know my theory for why the last minute shoehorned a 2017 engine in the 2016 frame?? They wanted to see if the problem is really the chassis or the engine. I think they got their answer, it's the engine. It eats the rear tires and has been doing this all season long. Yamaha may want to consider testing a full blown 2016 bike vs. the hybrid that Rossi and Vinales rode yesterday. IF(and big if) Rossi and Vinales were to come out for the test on a full on 2016 bike(run tons of laps) and beat the rest of the field like a rented mule, then I'd say Yamaha would have the answer they were looking for. And this were to be the case, if I were Yamaha, I'd go into the off season, slap a new paint job on a 2016 bike and call it a new 2018 bike. Cause if Yamaha fail to realize this, make another abomination of a bike next year, then get humped in the ass all season long, then it's a company/management problem and not so much a team/rider problem.

[madvlad]

Good point. Yeah if they indeed ran the 2016 chassis on the 2017 engine then call it a day lol. They did worse than before lol