QE2 or you get a 20% pay cut

[Canuck]

My work schedule is busy today, so I'm not going to get into anoter 3 page (+) debate on the success and failures of SS. But what is your solution. Give it to the Bankster scumbags on Wall St?

[Shea]

My work schedule is busy today, so I'm not going to get into anoter 3 page (+) debate on the success and failures of SS. But what is your solution. Give it to the Bankster scumbags on Wall St?

Canada's system, as you've described it, sounds workable. The problem is no one has the stones to get into it since it's the "third rail" of politics. The only options apparently available to us are 1) raise the retirement age, 2) means test the benefits 3) cut benefits or 4) raise the tax. None of those are particularly palatable and doing any of them would lead to a firestorm of hate from whoever is in the opposition and the AARP. Doing nothing is not acceptable.

I would prefer "ownership" of an individuals retirement. If you've put money aside your entire adult life, it should be yours. As it stands now, you pay into the system for 40+ years and if you die on your 64th birthday the government takes it all.

In the grand scheme of things, defined benefits (you get X every month, no matter how much you've put in) as opposed to defined contribution plans (you put in X amount and you get Y amount based on that) are a problem and will be the doom of the massive amount of underwater pension plans in the US. These mismanaged union plans that have been underfunded for years are going to be bailed out by us taxpayers at some point in the very near future.

[dirkterrell]

I would prefer "ownership" of an individuals retirement.

PRIVATIZATION?!?!?!?!?!? You fucking selfish bastard! How dare you expect people to be responsible for themselves. Hell no! That would be an unmitigated disaster. We need big daddy to take care of everybody.



Dirk

[Shea]

The problem Canuck is that ALL that "money" that the SSA says is in the the "trust fund" doesn't actually exist. In order to cook the books, our illustrious government took the cash from that fund and replaced it with special treasury notes (aka IOUs). In 2000, Bill Clinton's OMB stated:

"These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other trust fund expenditures-but only in a bookkeeping sense. These funds are not set up to be pension funds, like the funds of private pension plans. They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury, that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large trust fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, make it easier for the government to pay benefits. "

Social Security liabilities are PURPOSEFULLY kept OFF the government balance sheets because they would freak people out. The system is definitely in trouble with fictitious bookkeeping that makes Enron look tame.

[Canuck]

In the grand scheme of things, defined benefits (you get X every month, no matter how much you've put in) as opposed to defined contribution plans (you put in X amount and you get Y amount based on that) are a problem and will be the doom of the massive amount of underwater pension plans in the US. These mismanaged union plans that have been underfunded for years are going to be bailed out by us taxpayers at some point in the very near future.

Mismanaged is a vague generalization. I'll give you an empirical example. My Union pension is now at "endangered" stage. Meaning that we are between 70-85% solvent. Our pension took a dive when the stock market took a massive shit in '08. The real-estate scandal and all of these CDS (credit default swaps) were/are tied into the stock and bonds that alot of pension plans and private investors bought into. Most of what is at fault are the Banksters and the 100 or so uber rich in this country that really control things.
Viva la resistànce!

[dirkterrell]

Mismanaged is a vague generalization. I'll give you an empirical example. My Union pension is now at "endangered" stage. Meaning that we are between 70-85% solvent. Our pension took a dive when the stock market took a massive shit in '08.

Then it was mismanaged. Clearly it was too heavily invested in equities for the payouts it had to make.

And yes, the banksters have pulled off some massive fraud, especially on the MBS stuff. They're trying to get out of paying for the mess they've created and the politicians are playing right along. But bullshit can't overcome the mathematical realities in play forever, and the more of this quantitative easing crap they foist on us, the more disastrous the final collapse will be.

Dirk

[Shea]

Mismanaged is a vague generalization. I'll give you an empirical example. My Union pension is now at "endangered" stage. Meaning that we are between 70-85% solvent. Our pension took a dive when the stock market took a massive shit in '08. The real-estate scandal and all of these CDS (credit default swaps) were/are tied into the stock and bonds that alot of pension plans and private investors bought into. Most of what is at fault are the Banksters and the 100 or so uber rich in this country that really control things.
Viva la resistànce!

I know you have a special love for unions, but for a group of people (powerful elite themselves) that put more emphasis in promoting their political agenda rather then funding their own members pension plans...and then to use their bought politicians to shift that burden onto American taxpayers. I've got a problem with it.


So we are on the hook for $500+ Billion, and that is just for publicly traded companies, state union pensions underwater add billions more.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-95056214.html

[Ghost]

Viva la resistànce!

The Resistance that "resists" by posting diatribes on obscure forums with no intention/ability to actually effect change?

La résistance est morte mon ami.*

*(though the idea still manages to sell a lot of Che shirts to college kids who think it'll get them laid)

[Canuck]

The Resistance that "resists" by posting diatribes on obscure forums with no intention/ability to actually effect change?

La résistance est morte mon ami.*

*(though the idea still manages to sell a lot of Che shirts to college kids who think it'll get them laid)

touché.
Thanks for the acute accent correction on the first 'e'. I'm an Anglophone Canandian. No Québécois for me. But I'm trying.

[Ghost]

touché.
Thanks for the acute accent correction on the first 'e'. I'm an Anglophone Canandian. No Québécois for me. But I'm trying.

Once you're over your VW craze we'll worry about your accent marks.

[dirkterrell]

Yep, they are basically monetizing the Federal deficit. Bernanke and crew need to be run out of town IMO, and the people in these banks running these mortgage-backed securities schemes need to be locked up with Bubba for a few years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiTikduJ15Y

Dirk