Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[bulldog]

This tragedy is one of the reasons I fully believe in open carry everywhere..... Things would have been a little different if say 1% of that club was armed too.

Are people allowed to conceal carry and drink alcohol though? That would be my issue on guns in clubs...the drunk dude with his gun

[#1Townie]

Are people allowed to conceal carry and drink alcohol though? That would be my issue on guns in clubs...the drunk dude with his gun

no you can not be drunk and in possession of a firearm.

[JKOL]

Are people allowed to conceal carry and drink alcohol though? That would be my issue on guns in clubs...the drunk dude with his gun

That is one of the things they went over in my CCW class, can't have alcohol in your system and carry. I imagine most states are the same. Even if you aren't concealed carrying, you can't have a firearm in your possession with alcohol in your system.

[bulldog]

no you can not be drunk and in possession of a firearm.

That is one of the things they went over in my CCW class, can't have alcohol in your system and carry. I imagine most states are the same. Even if you aren't concealed carrying, you can't have a firearm in your possession with alcohol in your system.

That is what I figured. My worry would be that this is obviously all on the “honor system” (not like gun registers BAC and stops working), so we risk people actually carrying when they do drink. Since we all know alcohol impairs or judgement I’d be fearful allowing clubs/bars to allow firearms could end up being a bad decision….I know I’ve made bad decisions I regretted while drinking that I would never have done sober.

Start up the designated driver/carrier system.

I guess the issue there is would this override the clubs/bar rule of no firearms? If so we are back to the “honor system” of trusting people are not lying. Then if a club won’t allow it, does this start the entire “constitutional right” argument since a person has a legal permit.

Personally I do not mind when I go to a club or a concert and I see they are running people through metal detectors as this mainly catches the people trying to sneak in weapons….the concealed weapon people I’d assume are fine too since the entire reason to conceal carry is to protect against others that have a gun.

[JKOL]

For me, I will not carry anywhere there is excessive alcohol consumption. With alcohol comes "likes to fight tough guys" and that attitude combined with a sober CCW is a recipe for a bad situation. Plus, the only way it is tolerable to be around drunk people is to be drunk yourself, otherwise it is an exercise in patience and clock watching just waiting for the night to end.

[#1Townie]

That is what I figured. My worry would be that this is obviously all on the “honor system” (not like gun registers BAC and stops working), so we risk people actually carrying when they do drink. Since we all know alcohol impairs or judgement I’d be fearful allowing clubs/bars to allow firearms could end up being a bad decision….I know I’ve made bad decisions I regretted while drinking that I would never have done sober.



I guess the issue there is would this override the clubs/bar rule of no firearms? If so we are back to the “honor system” of trusting people are not lying. Then if a club won’t allow it, does this start the entire “constitutional right” argument since a person has a legal permit.

Personally I do not mind when I go to a club or a concert and I see they are running people through metal detectors as this mainly catches the people trying to sneak in weapons….the concealed weapon people I’d assume are fine too since the entire reason to conceal carry is to protect against others that have a gun.

so what's your idea with it all? how do you keep people safe?

[bulldog]

so what's your idea with it all? how do you keep people safe?

I don’t have a solution…bottom line is nobody is really safe anywhere nowadays because no matter what is done, if someone really wants to kill, they most likely will find a way. Take guns away, and they will use a bomb. Takes explosives away and someone will use poison….take all weapons away they will hijack an airplane……and so on. Bottom line is humans are just violent people and this is nothing that has changed….we just hear more about it with the media now, but for many centuries humans have done very barbaric things…..holocaust, atomic bombs, biologic weapons, etc.

As for clubs/bars/concerts, I do think they metal detectors is one step to help this out because with those it becomes very difficult for a person to get in armed…for most part. Yet again, if someone really has a will, it will most likely still happen.

I have to play Devil's advocate her for a second.

There were 320 people in the club, so if 1% of them were armed, that would put four shooters (including the gunman) in a very crowded place. Unless one of the three "defenders" was able to take out the shooter before the police got there - it would be a royal cluster fuck. Then there is the liability issue. What if one of the CCW holders were able to shoot the gunman, but accidentally hit a couple innocent bystanders? On the one hand, he's a hero for saving a bunch of people, but on the other hand, he could be sued for everything he's got, and he could even be charged with negligent homicide. Or -- he might even get himself accidentally killed by responding police. How are the cops supposed to know he's a good guy trying to take out the shooter? And it's not like the police are going to waltz in and say, "Everyone put down your guns." They are going to neutralize shooters. That's what they are focused on. (And once the shooting begins, how are the three good guys supposed to know whether there is more than one killer? Who is hostile and who is an ally? How do you tell in the heat of a firefight?)

This is the kind of situation that makes a good case for mandatory training of all CCW permit holders. By carrying a weapon, they are not just defending themselves. They might also be forced into a situation where they serve as de facto police augmentees.

I agree with you and have argued this same point when the Aurora theatre shooting occurred; nobody knows the “good guy” shooting is trying to help and could cause more panic. Like in the theatre shooting: what happened if someone in the back was a good guy and pulled out his weapon…..would victims know he was not part of the assault! Would it have caused many that ran out the back to veer to the front and get shot by the real killer resulting on more deaths. In a situation that is like this, it is easy to say what could have been done, but in the heat of things, it gets way harder.

Yeah exactly and then what happens when the good guy misses and shoots someone else! Would that family really be like “oh no big deal, we know you were trying to help”….maybe, but most are going to sue the crap out of the “good guy” because all they know is that person shot and killed their loved one….then who knows if charges would be filled and the “good guy” gets locked up for years. Next, do we really blame the cops if they came in and shot the “good guy” thinking they were part of the killers