New M/C from China

[Wrider]

Hyosung makes the SV650 motor for Suzuki. They pull an extra 10 HP out of it to put it into their own bike.

But

Look at the fit and finish, the suspension, even the frame all leave a lot to be desired compared to the SV650.

[Wrider]

EXACTLY what they said about the Japanese motorcycle and car industry when they started, and look at them now......

The difference is that the Japanese worked to improve their quality and still sold at low prices. The Koreans are doing that now. The Chinese don't give a crap about their quality, they just want to get it shipped out the door.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The difference is that the Japanese worked to improve their quality and still sold at low prices. The Koreans are doing that now. The Chinese don't give a crap about their quality, they just want to get it shipped out the door.

Again, the exact same things were said about the Japanese.....and the Koreans. Time will tell.

[Ghost]

The difference is that the Japanese worked to improve their quality and still sold at low prices. The Koreans are doing that now. The Chinese don't give a crap about their quality, they just want to get it shipped out the door.

Again, the exact same things were said about the Japanese.....and the Koreans. Time will tell.

No, Wrider has it right--the attitude of the Japanese & Koreans is to improve their product.

China only wants to flood the market with cheap shit to destroy everyone else's economy.

[Ghosty]

Plus China has this massive pool of slave-wage labor and abundant natural resources. Well, except for oil. But they still have a long way to go on quality. Shit, they're still poisoning their own kids with lead and weird chemicals in the baby formula. As recent as THIS YEAR. And their steel is CRAP.

I agree Hyundai & Kia are kicking ass for their market, they've improved their quality by miles since we were growing up thinking they were both like Yugos, made of paper mache'.

Kia (& Suzuki) are almost like what we use to think of Hyundai. The Optima is actually a decent car. And nowadays Hyundai is practically on par with the other big Jap makers. Sonata & Elantra both get good ratings. Maybe not as good as Toyo, Honda, & Subaru. But close to Mitsu & Mazda, imo.

[Ghost]

Shit, they're still poisoning their own kids with lead and weird chemicals in the baby formula. As recent as THIS YEAR.

And they've tried poisoning our kids with lead in toys they ship here, and they've poisoned our dogs and cats with their food.

So...yeah...awesome standards of quality and ethical behavior all around.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Plus China has this massive pool of slave-wage labor and abundant natural resources. Well, except for oil. But they still have a long way to go on quality. Shit, they're still poisoning their own kids with lead and weird chemicals in the baby formula. As recent as THIS YEAR. And their steel is CRAP.

I agree Hyundai & Kia are kicking ass for their market, they've improved their quality by miles since we were growing up thinking they were both like Yugos, made of paper mache'.

Kia (& Suzuki) are almost like what we use to think of Hyundai. The Optima is actually a decent car. And nowadays Hyundai is practically on par with the other big Jap makers. Sonata & Elantra both get good ratings. Maybe not as good as Toyo, Honda, & Subaru. But close to Mitsu & Mazda, imo.

There is some merit to your and Ghost's comments, but, remember, we're spoiled now, and won't buy "cheap shit" like we didn't when Hondas and Toyotas first came out. When they were garbage, the American market shunned them like the plague. It wasn't until they had gotten their quality on par with the crappy Big 4 quality that we started seriously buying them. I know they'll never be able to "flood" me with their cheap crap. They can only "flood the market" if people ALLOW them to......by buying it. I don't see that happening.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

And they've tried poisoning our kids with lead in toys they ship here, and they've poisoned our dogs and cats with their food.

So...yeah...awesome standards of quality and ethical behavior all around.

I don't know that they "tried" anything, but in any developing nation there is lead in the air and in the soil. There's traces of lead in OUR air, and in our soil, from leaded gasoline used long ago and occurring naturally. In trace amounts it's harmless.

But, yes, they don't seem to give a crap about ecological or ethical concerns. But, whatchagonnado? Tell 'em to stop? I think we should put heavy tariffs on ALL imported goods, not just Chinese. Give our industries a chance to compete.

[Ghost]

They can only "flood the market" if people ALLOW them to......by buying it. I don't see that happening.

People don't have much choice when it's the $10k Chinese Shitwagon XL versus the $16k Hyundai and $19k Honda and all they can afford is the $10k car.

So, once we (stupidly) let Chinese shit in the door, a lot of people will flock to it even though it's pure shit.

Wal-Mart doesn't sell on Quality, it sells because it's Cheap.

Never underestimate how price affects everything, and if it's Cheaper vs Better, Americans have voted Cheaper at almost every turn in the past 20 years.

If that weren't true, then Wal-Mart wouldn't be the worlds largest retailer (of Chinese shit).

And, even if you TRY not to buy Chinese shit (as I do) half the time you have no choice as nearly everything is made there. Your jeans, your shirts, your sneakers, your iWhatever...so, the consumer's voice is effectively removed from the process since all the companies are sourcing their shit from China and that's all there is since it's cheaper for them.

You can get your Chinese Shit under Brand X, or Y, or Z, but beneath the label it's all the same garbage...

I'd LOVE to see the US start tariffing the hell out of Chinese shit--BUT, we can't because Big Business needs its cheap crap for more profit, AND since China holds most of our US Debt, they've got us by the economic balls.

So, fuck them, and fuck their shitty lead-coated, POS bikes, cars, jeans, and everything else.

[Ghosty]

Unfortunately, another reason you can't just easily tariff the shit out of imports is the threat of starting a huge trade war. This is discussed many times in the news, but myself and most of the general public don't understand how complex it is. Involving currency value, trade deficits, etc. You have to be an economist really.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Unfortunately, another reason you can't just easily tariff the shit out of imports is the threat of starting a huge trade war. This is discussed many times in the news, but myself and most of the general public don't understand how complex it is. Involving currency value, trade deficits, etc. You have to be an economist really.

Well, we owe THEM money, and the only way we can pay it back is for us to be profitable. If we go belly up, their debt doesn't get paid. PLUS, we're their largest market, so they NEED us, we don't need them. We could simply default on our debt to them, and then put tariffs on everything from China, and what, they'll start a nuclear war? I'd rather start a trade war than continue down the economic path we are on.

[Ghosty]

...we don't need them.

Sorry, VERY wrong, lol. The economic/trade/currency relationship is VERY MUCH mutually beneficial and detrimental at the same time, in varying degrees.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

People don't have much choice when it's the $10k Chinese Shitwagon XL versus the $16k Hyundai and $19k Honda and all they can afford is the $10k car.

So, once we (stupidly) let Chinese shit in the door, a lot of people will flock to it even though it's pure shit.

Wal-Mart doesn't sell on Quality, it sells because it's Cheap.

Never underestimate how price affects everything, and if it's Cheaper vs Better, Americans have voted Cheaper at almost every turn in the past 20 years.

If that weren't true, then Wal-Mart wouldn't be the worlds largest retailer (of Chinese shit).

And, even if you TRY not to buy Chinese shit (as I do) half the time you have no choice as nearly everything is made there. Your jeans, your shirts, your sneakers, your iWhatever...so, the consumer's voice is effectively removed from the process since all the companies are sourcing their shit from China and that's all there is since it's cheaper for them.

You can get your Chinese Shit under Brand X, or Y, or Z, but beneath the label it's all the same garbage...

I'd LOVE to see the US start tariffing the hell out of Chinese shit--BUT, we can't because Big Business needs its cheap crap for more profit, AND since China holds most of our US Debt, they've got us by the economic balls.

So, fuck them, and fuck their shitty lead-coated, POS bikes, cars, jeans, and everything else.

Then why didn't that tactic work when the Japanese cars were first introduced? History show us it didn't, so why? Because we wouldn't buy crap simply because it's cheap. Non-durable goods, toys, etc., maybe. Cars and motorcycles? Ahhh, no.

And, having actually dealt with chinese suppliers in the past, it's certainly not all shit. I have some plastic parts on my desk now that I'm highly impressed with the quality of. Certainly there is some crap out there. Scariest is the crap Chinese fasteners and other parts.......used in cranes and other lifting equipment.

[Ghost]

Then why didn't that tactic work when the Japanese cars were first introduced? History show us it didn't, so why?

History?

Toyota is the #1 auto manufacturer in the world, what history book are you coloring with fat crayons in?

[jbnwc]

Kia (& Suzuki) are almost like what we use to think of Hyundai. The Optima is actually a decent car. And nowadays Hyundai is practically on par with the other big Jap makers. Sonata & Elantra both get good ratings. Maybe not as good as Toyo, Honda, & Subaru. But close to Mitsu & Mazda, imo.

Hyundai and Kia are the same. The Optima and Sonata are on the same platform. I drove a new Optima back to back with 2-3 yr old Lexus GS350, Merc C280, Infiniti G35, and the Optima beats them in virtually every way IMO(other than brand recognition).

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Sorry, VERY wrong, lol. The economic/trade/currency relationship is VERY MUCH mutually beneficial and detrimental at the same time, in varying degrees.

I don't buy it. I believe we could wean ourselves off the Chinese tit. We existed for 200 years before them, and we can do it again. ANYTHING is possible if we put our minds and dollars into it.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

History?

Toyota is the #1 auto manufacturer in the world, what history book are you coloring with fat crayons in?

SRSLY? I'm reading the one that existed before you were born kiddo. And the "coloring" reference is a joke comparing what I do for a living compared to what you used to do. People didn't buy the Japanes cars and bikes until they stopped being crap. They didn't BECOME the largest manufacturer in the world instantly the minute they started business. I remember there WERE no Japanese cars on the roads in the '60's but the occasional one. In the '70's you rarely saw them either, as most of them rusted to nothing immediately. It wasn't until the early '80's that you really saw a strong Japanese presence, leading to where they are today. It too them what, 40+ years to topple GM? Kids these days.......

So, given time, the Chinese have the same chance the Japanese and Koreans did, for the same reasons.

[Ghosty]

We existed for 200 years before them...

Dude, compare todays global economy and technology with ONLY FIFTY years ago, much less 200, LMAO!!! Apples & oranges, imo. I mean without reverting to a Laura Engalls Wilder, Little House on the Prairie lifestyle...

We can do it again. ANYTHING is possible if we put our minds and dollars into it.

Agreed.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Dude, compare todays global economy and technology with ONLY FIFTY years ago, much less 200, LMAO!!! Apples & oranges, imo. I mean without reverting to a Laura Engalls Wilder, Little House on the Prairie lifestyle...

Agreed.

Point is, if we did it before, we can certainly do it again. Remember, us being their largest market and us owing them a ton of money, if we defaulted and stopped buying their crap, we could easily destroy THEIR economy. More easily than they could ours. WE'RE destroying ours by buying their crap.

[Ghost]

Point is, if we did it before, we can certainly do it again. Remember, us being their largest market and us owing them a ton of money, if we defaulted and stopped buying their crap, we could easily destroy THEIR economy. More easily than they could ours. WE'RE destroying ours by buying their crap.

Considering we've moved the majority of our manufacturing offshore, we're heavily bought and sold by China, and our economy is collapsing, how, exactly, do you think we're going to "do it again?"

All your flaming rhetoric doesn't change facts, and if China does improve its shitty products, as you postulate above, then we're even more screwed, not less.

The only edge we once had was that our stuff was better, but now all our stuff is made in China...so...

And how, exactly, do we bankrupt China by defaulting and ruining our credit rating?

Ruining our credit (something you ought to know about from your other posts) makes us unable to borrow the money we need, and since we don't have it we borrowed from China.

And I find it amusing that you piss, bitch and moan about illegals and OWS and everyone else who is "entitled" to get something for nothing, and now you're advocating that we, as a country, skip out on paying what we owe on debts we entered into in good faith with other countries. Classy.

You really should stick to coloring.
Maybe treat yourself to a coloring book with some stickers.
Everyone loves stickers.

[grim]

I like Chinese food too much sorry....

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Considering we've moved the majority of our manufacturing offshore, we're heavily bought and sold by China, and our economy is collapsing, how, exactly, do you think we're going to "do it again?"
That is a complicated question. We can start with tax incentives and tariffs.

All your flaming rhetoric doesn't change facts, and if China does improve its shitty products, as you postulate above, then we're even more screwed, not less.
That I agree with.

The only edge we once had was that our stuff was better, but now all our stuff is made in China...so...
If we can produce better for a decent price, we'll have that edge again.

And how, exactly, do we bankrupt China by defaulting and ruining our credit rating?
If we default and take away their single largest market (by a large margin). Duh.

Ruining our credit (something you ought to know about from your other posts) makes us unable to borrow the money we need, and since we don't have it we borrowed from China.
How did I ruin "our" credit? Like, I single-handled ruined the US's credit? Or were you referring to how my personal credit was ruined by someone else? And, I get by just fine without credit. I've gone to all-cash, and now the banks don't own me.

And I find it amusing that you piss, bitch and moan about illegals and OWS and everyone else who is "entitled" to get something for nothing, and now you're advocating that we, as a country, skip out on paying what we owe on debts we entered into in good faith with other countries. Classy.
Yup, they still suck ass and are parasites. Reading comprehension. Google it. I said we COULD. I did not say we SHOULD. Simple difference, really. You ARE an lit major, no?

You really should stick to coloring.
Maybe treat yourself to a coloring book with some stickers.
Everyone loves stickers.
If designing complicated 3D assemblies for various companies and gov't agencies from NASA, to the Navy to patented consumer goods (check United States Design Patent D423,086) is what you consider "coloring", well, perhaps you should use your lit degree for writing comic strips?

cc

[Ghost]

Here, I found you one you should *really* like:

[grim]

Here, I found you one you should *really* like: