If you could improve motorcycle safety...

[rforsythe]

First, this is a serious thread, so please keep the BS posts out (hence why it's in here and not General).

Now, Scott (Rybo) and myself will be doing a ~6 minute presentation to ABATE, CDOT, and NHSTA next week as representatives of CSC, intended to help the government-types improve existing, or even begin new ways of increasing motorcycle safety in Colorado. Of course we'll put some focus on sportbike-specific tendencies, but a lot of this stuff is not unique to any one kind of bike.

I have a lot of things already in my head that I think will really be good to say and I'm sure Scott does too, and of course we'll be sitting down in the next couple days to formalize it a bit. But I wanted to ask you, the CSC riding community, to brainstorm a bit as well and offer your suggestions and "topic starters". Perhaps if there's something we haven't thought of it will make it in the presentation! After all, we are representing the CSC, so I feel we should represent its members' views as well.

So, if there was a way (or more than once) you could see to improve safety while riding a motorcycle, please post up! It can be rider education, non-rider (cager) education - which is big in my mind, legislative changes (no we will not suggest a helmet law, but do promote helmet use), etc etc. Please give us your input! This is a very real way you can help make a difference to our sport.

[TFOGGuys]

My $.02, in no particular order:

Tiered licensing, tax/licensing advantages for learner friendly(read as 400cc or smaller) bikes, safety education for both bikers and cagers, dealer guidelines to help avoid the sale of inappropriate bikes (GSXR1K to newb 18 year olds).

[Brizz]

I think there should be more cager education..I know i have only taken 1 class to get a license..I have taken several bike courses..So maybe that should be something implimented..It would 1) make better drivers out of all of us and 2) bring awareness to all..Both 2 wheels and 4 Wheels to 18 wheels.

Maybe we should have a forum for motorcycle awareness/safety..Then we could add things randomly, as they come to mind.

[rforsythe]

Maybe we should have a forum for motorcycle awareness/safety..Then we could add things randomly, as they come to mind.

Perhaps, but we're doing this in a week. The thread will work for now, if this catches on or looks like a long term project we as a club can get behind I will be 100% for that though.

[Brizz]

Perhaps, but we're doing this in a week. The thread will work for now, if this catches on or looks like a long term project we as a club can get behind I will be 100% for that though.

Maybe it should have been something we should have had from the begining..As this is a BIKE Club...But thank you for your consideration.

[pauliep]

Rider Education.

It's very agreed that this is one of the top subjects for rider safety, Education and training.

Federal/State Goverment financial support for motorcycle education. Ideally I know they want you to attend a course annually. Well the prices for courses are not cheap. I think that if there were Federal/Sate funding towards rider safety to reduce the prices of education or even continued education, that might influence riders and future riders to pursue these resources with more aggression.

Another way for that is if someone has already attended a MSF course last year, they ought to be able to provide their card and recieve a discount on course for their next season's course.

[Brizz]

Rider Education.

It's very agreed that this is one of the top subjects for rider safety, Education and training.

Federal/State Goverment financial support for motorcycle education. Ideally I know they want you to attend a course annually. Well the prices for courses are not cheap. I think that if there were Federal/Sate funding towards rider safety to reduce the prices of education or even continued education, that might influence riders and future riders to pursue these resources with more aggression.

Another way for that is if someone has already attended a MSF course last year, they ought to be able to provide their card and recieve a discount on course for their next season's course.

True again..It cost me roughly $23 to get a drivers licence and $150+ every year to do a bike course..(Unless your military, and then its free) But its mandatory.

[Sortarican]

Leah and Dana both brought up the point of making the road paint abrasive instead of the slick type they use now.
Especially in crosswalks.
Could sell the fact that little old ladies probably bite the dust walking across them too.

+1 tiered licensing.

[rider955i]

put a requuirement on regular cagers so that once they hit 50 they have to retake the drivers test completely and then every ten years after that. As far as something on the motorcyclists part maybe do something like if you want to ride a lter bike or possibly even a bigger cruiser/ chopper require that the rider logs ________miles/ hours before they are allowed to operate it. I would hope that someone doesn't jump from a 50 cc moped to a litre bike, but would think that dirt bike experience would be ok bc peoplle are usually pushing the bike hard enough to know what to do with more power. once you reach a point it is about having the ability to hold back until you get the hang of it to push the limits more even though it is often during this learning that people do make mistakes.

[Brizz]

Well First off..
1) That is one hell of a run on sentence for an educational thread..
2) how can you log miles if you arent premitted to ride said motorcycle?
3) Just cuz you have a liter+ bike dont mean you have to roll the throttle all the way back...

Maybe im missing your points..(due to the extreme run on sentence..) But i think i know where your going with it..

As for Sortarician...I agree with the 3 of you..The reflective strips should be sand based..With a high grain..Im sure several uf us can vouch for the many times we have slid on em.

[Mel]

Ralph, I think that you and Scott probably have a great handle on things. I am gonna state a few opinions, which may or may not help your cause.
I think that dealerships need to be a little more responsible in how they sell bikes (i.e. to un-trained riders), but I don't necessarily agree that you have to have training to operate a liter bike...frankly, having ridden both for years, if you are stupid, you are going to wreck just as easily on a 600 as you will on a liter bike. With modern technology and less weight, etc. etc. you can do almost 80 in first gear, and can be well past 45-50 just through an intersection from a dead stop on a 600 cc bike. I am far from perfect on my bikes, but frankly, just being smarter in how you ride will prevent an accident...not to sound callous, but it isn't always the cagers fault. I have seen people I know killed in accidents blamed on cagers (i.e. car pulled out in front of someone) but when you are pushing 110-120 on the streets and a car pulls out in front, you can not just blame the car. I don't think that forcing people to start out on smaller bikes (i.e. less than 400 cc) is the answer either...I would never tell a new rider to start out on something larger than a 600 bike, but there seems to be a big push (dealerships, society) telling people that bigger is better, and that you can "start" on a 600 and "move up" to something larger when the truth is that you will probably never outride what a 600 has to offer, nor should you ever attempt it on the streets.
I also don't necessarily agree that cagers need to be trained specifically around what I choose to do...I do think that most people can't drive for shit, but if I choose to ride a motorcycle, I don't expect that drivers need to be the ones to work around my choosen hobby. I think better education for new(er) riders, possibly having riders re-take courses every couple of years, etc. would be helpful (just as I think you should have to retake your driving course every few years). Graduated licensing would also be helpful for bikes...I think that the power a bike has in the hands of an 18 year old is dangerous, there is too much temptation to use the power, and you are still invincible at that age.
Additionally, media plays a big part in what riders do with their time....how often do you see stuff on TV (say, two wheel turner or any of those shows) advocating safety? The dealerships themselves typically even have stunt riding videos playing in the showrooms...

Possibly trying to mentor newer riders would be helpful...the kid I sold my GSXR600 to had never ridden...he came with a friend who owns a bike, but knows equally little about them. I gave the kid a good helmet to wear, and made sure to give my number and told him that once he has taken the MSF course to call me and I would take both he and his friend out for some one on one, real life riding advice and training. I don't think that I can baby and save every rider out there, but if I can bring new, responsible riders to the sport, I will take whatever time I have to do so.


Edit: I just realized the above makes no sense....if you can read between the lines, I think you will get what I was trying to say

[TFOGGuys]

+1 On the Mentoring... I took my stepkid out to Second Creek and he learned more about how to make a bike go around corners in an afternoon following my slow ass than he had learned in the previous year on the street. He and two of his friends all bought identical bikes (VTR1000s) as their first bikes, his is the only one that hasn't hit the ground.

[pilot]

Not trying to take away from any of the schools here. But it would be nice if CDOT, etc., could provide a basic training CD as part of the package they provide.

[DevilsTonic]

I agree with more education required for people getting / renewing driver's licenses.

Additionally, because of my experience, the paint and / or tape they use to paint lines on the roads and cross walks should be something stickier...such as the paint used on the edge of some tracks.

Another thing that would help immensely is to have road crews pay more attention to the road conditions...when summer hits, they should be clearing the roads of sand and miscellaneous debris (this would benefit riders and drivers alike, no one likes getting sand tossed up at windshields causing cracks)..IMO.

[rybo]

Thank you everyone for your input so far. Many of the things here have been on my mind, but the tape/paint thing had slipped it for some reason, and I've actually crashed on the stuff!

I'm glad the organizers contacted us and are allowing us an opportunity to present at their conference. The notice is incredibly short and I'd love a month to prepare, but we don't have it.

Please keep the ideas coming.

Once the event is done we'll post up a synopsis of the day.

Scott

[asp_125]

CDOT should pay more attention to pothole repair. Some that are non-issue for 4 wheels could really spell trouble for motorcycles.

[Bassil Duwaik]

A big BIG BIGGGG thing to improve motorcycle safty is to have freaking CDot get off their asses and get that damn gravel off of the roads. Yeah that gravel is messing with my confidence.

oh yeah and another thingy try to push for them to get rid of the snakes in the road. Make them repave it sooner better then later. And if I'm not pushing my luck have them increase the speed at which we can ride. I know it's not practical to change all the speed limit signs around town to adjust to bikes (even though they've already done it for trucks and cars i.g. 65 trucks 75 cars). But a sorta implied speed limit of 10% would suffice for me. Remember go in there and start off high like 30% increase and then negotiate it down to ten if need be. I got faith in you buddy

[rybo]

(no we will not suggest a helmet law, but do promote helmet use), etc etc. Please give us your input! This is a very real way you can help make a difference to our sport.

Ralph and I are on the same page with this one. Helmet use in my world is mandatory, I never ride without one. I don't believe that adding that bit of legislation actually makes riding safer, it just reduces the consequences AFTER the accident has occurred. I would MUCH rather see us working to avoid the accident to begin with, that is making motorcycling safer.

[pilot]

Sounds like this meeting is in conjunction with the program that was mentioned in a previous post: http://www.dot.state.co.us/TravelInf...yclesafety.pdf

Most likely several of these agencies have prepared their presentation around it. Perhaps, if you were to build upon their efforts they would be more receptive to some other issues you may present (like sanding the paint at crosswalks). Also, it wouldn't hurt, no pun intended, to review the

Hurt study summary: http://www.ct.gov/dot/LIB/dot/Docume...CTDOT_Hurt.pdf and

the New Zealand safety study: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/857

and the Euro report: Motorcyle Accident In Depth Study: http://maids.acembike.org/

Here is a short article about the Euro study: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/new...e_crash_study/

this is but a short list of motorcycle safety studies.

A note about the presentation itself: An OK presentation given by a great speaker is memorable. A great presentation given by an OK speaker is forgotten.

Please take a moment to consider who is going to give the presentation--I'm not trying to hack on anyones skills as I have never listened to you speak to a group. Obviously you all are great racers, and web hosts with your hearts in the right places.

BUT...If any of you, in any way have issues with eye contact, voice carry, handling a pointer/visual aids, then you should practice it over and over. Or, get someone who can "pull it off" --a person that you can train on the relevent topics you wish to present. Finding that "right" person is easy--the CSC is big, hold tryouts if needed (Even presidents of large corporations have speakers on their staff). Tryouts would even gets a few members involved.

Hence, a well-briefed presenter and a few associates--standing at the ready-- to handle specific questions demonstrate how prepared and important the topic at hand is to the presenters and the audience.

Consider mentioning another bike club and their efforts too. This goes miles when it comes to support of your points. Nothing like a bunch of nodding heads when you are speaking. Praise and appluase, paise and appluase.

Speaking of audience, if this is open to the public (that would be nice) then it would be great if some CSC members were to show up. Especially the ladies in the group. Motorcycling women are the fastest growing segment of the riding populace. Come on and all, but come well-dressed-business style (no t-shirts please), and perhaps even with some name badges-- think about getting those, at least for anyone who will be presenting, if not the whole group. Those cheesy paper name tags fall off. A good "CSC" name badge will cost you $10 bucks and goes a long way.

Next, you may want to consider mentioning to everyone there, before, during and after your presentation, that you are going to hold some sort of round-table discussion on safety in the near future and that you would like to have them attend. This will show them you are in this for the long-haul and it will bring them to your show. Tell them you providing food, a lunch, or something. I heard once that somebody here makes some killer green chilli.

Don't be specific on dates, times and locations. You'll have time to do that down the road. All you might want them to do is agree to send some reps. They will, as to say no would not look good on them.

What you are doing is very important. If it saves one life and the pain and suffering that would be avoided, then it will all be worth it.

Good luck.

[Titus]

excellent posts!

i was also thinking about the legislative side of things; stiffer penalties for accidents involving motorcycles as well as careless driving around motorcycles, eg. following too closely, unsafe lane changes, etc. etc.

[daemon]

+1 to this and all the other seeminly good intention post's.

even mel's made good sense to me.
i too have taken the time to help train riders.
would be cool if we as a group could mentor some of these newer riders.
kinda like a big brother's,big sister's kinda thing

I agree with more education required for people getting / renewing driver's licenses.

Additionally, because of my experience, the paint and / or tape they use to paint lines on the roads and cross walks should be something stickier...such as the paint used on the edge of some tracks.

Another thing that would help immensely is to have road crews pay more attention to the road conditions...when summer hits, they should be clearing the roads of sand and miscellaneous debris (this would benefit riders and drivers alike, no one likes getting sand tossed up at windshields causing cracks)..IMO.

[Bat]

More $$ put into safety ad campaigns...

similar to ad campaigns in other countries to increase driver's awareness so more people will actually start looking for us. Was it Britain that did the "stop, look and look again" TV ad with the car pulling out in front of the bike and the horrendous results? How many times have we all heard the "I didn't even see them" excuse from cagers hitting/pulling out into/turning in front of/cutting off/etc. motorcyclists?

Both MADD and state law enforcement do TV saturation (no pun intended) ad campaigns against drunk driving to increase awareness of penalties and to show the victims as "real" people - putting names to faces. And they tie these ads to certain times of the year when people are more likely to be drinking and driving, such as holidays. Would be nice to see more ad campaigns to increase awareness of US. Start saturating in the spring and periodically through the warmer months. Even if it only increased awareness by 10% - that's 10% better odds for us. I am just sickened that riders seem to get the "well they are doing something dangerous so it doesn't count as much if they get injured/killed" crap. We are someone's child/parent/sibling/spouse etc. - get the masses to wake up and start looking for us, dammit.

[dirkterrell]

S
BUT...If any of you, in any way have issues with eye contact, voice carry, handling a pointer/visual aids, then you should practice it over and over. Or, get someone who can "pull it off" --a person that you can train on the relevent topics you wish to present. Finding that "right" person is easy--the CSC is big, hold tryouts if needed (Even presidents of large corporations have speakers on their staff). Tryouts would even gets a few members involved.

Pilot is right on the mark. If you aren't used to doing this kind of thing, you'll be amazed at how fast 6 minutes will go by and you'll be going through half of your information in the last minute. I do this kind of thing all the time presenting research results at meetings. I would be very happy to get together with you guys and work on the mechanics of the presentation if you think it will help.

Dirk

[rybo]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the tips on presentation. I know Ralph has been spending a lot of time making presentations for R2SL lately and I've spent the majority of my career as a presenter/ trainer/ teacher, so I'm pretty comfortable with the delivery part. This is also on a short timeline, so while I'd love to get a crew together for brainstorming and practice, it's just not going to happen this time.

I do want to make sure that we have a well constructed presentation filled with relevent content.

Thanks again for all the posts....keep 'em coming!

Scott