If you could improve motorcycle safety...

[Chris]

My MSF class said somthing like 50% of fatal MC accidents involve alcohol.

Well I bet you could guess who is doing that and I don't think it is the sportbike or tour folks.

[Devaclis]

Factory or dealer sponsored "Saftey Rides" would be great. Kind of like a newb meet for people who recently purhcased a motorcycle. It will help the rider community and also reinforce the customer/dealer relationship.

I think more free instructional videos should be made available as well. I should be able to hit youtube or other such sites and pull down video on how to safely corner, throttle control, propper scanning techniques, etc..

[pauliep]

Factory or dealer sponsored "Saftey Rides" would be great. Kind of like a newb meet for people who recently purhcased a motorcycle. It will help the rider community and also reinforce the customer/dealer relationship.

I think more free instructional videos should be made available as well. I should be able to hit youtube or other such sites and pull down video on how to safely corner, throttle control, propper scanning techniques, etc..

+1

I like this one. It would allow the newbs to pair up pick at the brains of the seasoned riders. They can share their experiences and give mentorship. If something like this could be required, I imagine a lot to be gained. Like an open-end post purchase ride. I don't see why a dealership wouldn't? They put out company bikes and they rollering around advertising during the ride. Recommending safety gear, talking about road conditions, and getting newbs on the bandwagon about responisble goup rides. They can even have a PO show up and give he's little shpell about what freaks drivers out and that being dangerous to yourself puts everyone on the road dangerous.

[mtnairlover]

I really like these posts. Advertising makes sense, big sense.

As I was out with a small group on Sunday and stopped in Lyons, I was absolutely amazed at the number of bikes out there, seriously...has the number of bikes on the road increased, or something? I have a feeling that most definitely, if a poll were taken at dealerships, the number of people purchasing bikes in say the last 5 years has increased significantly and that the number of female riders has also increased dramatically.

One of the things I thought of before posting was signage. Warning-type signs on the canyon roads every few miles or so. No words on the sign, just an MC. Kinda like the animal X-ing signs. Maybe place those signs on the more popular routes.

Another thing about our ride on Sunday was the number of cagers moving out of our way...some not doing it cuz we were tailgating, but just cuz they were paying attention. The signs would be a good reminder to everyone on the roads, especially during the warm months.

[rybo]

Cathy,

I have friends who own a Honda shop in Wisconsin and there has been a MAJOR spike in motorcycle purchases in the past 3 years. There are two groups of users that are growing exponentially.

1. Women- this is the fastest growing market segment by far and it's showing no sign of slowing down.

2. "Older" men, ususally in or around their 50's. These people grew up with little motorcycles, triumphs, hondas etc. and used them as cheap transportation. In some ways they are trying to re-live their youth, but the group as a whole has huge buying power and are buying motorcycles in record numbers.

I like the signs idea.....you see them for bicycles too. I also like the above mentioned idea of motocycle shops sponsoring group rides for new customers. Maybe there would be some way to get the state to incentivize such a campaign (or an MSF voucher with every new bike purchase kind of campaign).

Statistics show that one of the common threads in motorcycle accidents is a new (to the rider) motorcycle. This applies even with riders who are very experienced. Any time a new bike is purchased, maybe there could be a way to get a free MSF course out of the deal?

[pilot]

It would be a good thing if someone from the CSC were to tape this event. At least your six minute presentation and then post it up on YouTube/etc.

Can you do this? Will it be allowed?

[daemon]

although i doubt this will be considered a safety issue.
there seems to be a lack of call boxes on very well traveled roads.
compound that with the people who don't want to clutter their scenery with cell phone towers and we have a definite problem in case of emergencies.
if anything there could be a push to have at least a few more towers that we can make calls from.

[dirkterrell]

Statistics show that one of the common threads in motorcycle accidents is a new (to the rider) motorcycle. This applies even with riders who are very experienced. Any time a new bike is purchased, maybe there could be a way to get a free MSF course out of the deal?

One of the most dangerous times in any risky activity is the period between newbie and experienced when your are losing the fear but before you have enough experience to really gauge where the limit is. I am a rescue/recovery cave diver and among people who have the proper training, the divers most likely to be in an accident are the ones who have moderate experience (~100 cave dives). My own motorcycling experience was similar and I wonder if that's true for riders in general? If so, then my advice would be to support more advanced training. Personally, I think the allure of riding on a track could be used to target sportbike riders. Classroom work and one-on-one track time with experienced riders would have a very positive impact by helping riders better understand their limits and those of the bike.

Dirk

[LightningRider]

Pointing at the cagers isn't something I want my post to be known for. I spend a lot of miles in one myself. If more effort was spent on getting people to know the rules and try to use a little common sense it seems that would be worthwhile.

I know, common sense isn't common, but if some effort went into reminding people that the left lane is for passing, talking on the phone while driving increases the chances that you as a driver will get into an accident, and time spent behind the wheel is for driving, not shaving, or playing with your hair or putting on makeup....

Some changes on getting and keeping a license could be an improvement. Many good ideas have been mentioned earlier in this post, so I won't repeat, but am I the only one who thinks it's maybe a little unsafe to just hand out drivers licenses to folks from out of state who already have a license? I've lived in four states where I've had a license, but Colorado is the only one who just gave me one without taking any kind of test just because I had a valid license from another state. While I loved the convenience of it, I fully realized I wouldn't know about laws that I probably should know about.

I think you could apply the same ideas above to riders as well. Obviously they won't be able to allow themselves to get preoccupied with the same things cagers will, but knowing the rules, so that everyone is on the same page, riders and cagers, and employing some common sense would go a long way. As someone mentioned earlier, building a culture of responsibility so that younger riders have their peers pressuring each other to not ride like jackasses instead of the opposite.

[rforsythe]

Well I bet you could guess who is doing that and I don't think it is the sportbike or tour folks.

Then reality may surprise you. I'll just leave it at that. Alcohol is a danger to bikers of ALL genres.

Thanks for the tips on presenting as well guys. I think Scott and I have it under control (fwiw, I got one of 6 A's my instructor had ever given in public speaking at college, but I'm still no expert so I appreciate the input)... I don't know if this is open to the public, or what will happen afterwards. We are one of several groups presenting as well. I have a call with the ABATE rep today though so I will know more after that...

[rforsythe]

One of the most dangerous times in any risky activity is the period between newbie and experienced when your are losing the fear but before you have enough experience to really gauge where the limit is. I am a rescue/recovery cave diver and among people who have the proper training, the divers most likely to be in an accident are the ones who have moderate experience (~100 cave dives). My own motorcycling experience was similar and I wonder if that's true for riders in general? If so, then my advice would be to support more advanced training. Personally, I think the allure of riding on a track could be used to target sportbike riders. Classroom work and one-on-one track time with experienced riders would have a very positive impact by helping riders better understand their limits and those of the bike.

Dirk

We see the same thing in aviation as well with relatively new pilots. They sometimes "lose the fear" or let poor impulse control, external pressures, and a host of other things get the better of them, and wind up the subject of an NTSB report. New pilots scare easily, but after 100-200 hours of nothing going wrong there is a tendency to get cocky, so those ones need a little different message.

Perhaps a key target area (with a shift in marketing tactics) is the rider who isn't green but still has a lot to learn that only experience can provide? My guess is that's where the majority of accidents occur, just as with pilots. There are so many similarities between the two groups it's pretty astounding actually.

[pauliep]

well I remember dean mentioning to me once that he heard that motorcycle racing comes next in line to flying a jet fighter when it comes to the demands of human response

[rforsythe]

well I remember dean mentioning to me once that he heard that motorcycle racing comes next in line to flying a jet fighter when it comes to the demands of human response

True. And street riding is probably inline with flying a small aircraft (as I do both, I'd say they're pretty close in the level of focus needed). You get scant few moments to relax, though it's a very enjoyable experience either way.

The FAA actually tests pilots on "risk management" awareness and skills, what if that was a key part of getting the license endorsement, or something insurance companies would discount for if you could take a government-conducted test and give them your score?

[McVaaahhh]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but cell phones are just frightening to me, both on the bike and in the cage. Especially bikers on phones - that's just asking for trouble right there.

[pauliep]

True. And street riding is probably inline with flying a small aircraft (as I do both, I'd say they're pretty close in the level of focus needed). You get scant few moments to relax, though it's a very enjoyable experience either way.

The FAA actually tests pilots on "risk management" awareness and skills, what if that was a key part of getting the license endorsement, or something insurance companies would discount for if you could take a government-conducted test and give them your score?

Everyone likes a discount. That's some worth mentioning as it does sound like it carries weight.

[pilot]

One of the most dangerous times in any risky activity is the period between newbie and experienced when your are losing the fear but before you have enough experience to really gauge where the limit is. I am a rescue/recovery cave diver and among people who have the proper training, the divers most likely to be in an accident are the ones who have moderate experience (~100 cave dives). My own motorcycling experience was similar and I wonder if that's true for riders in general? If so, then my advice would be to support more advanced training. Personally, I think the allure of riding on a track could be used to target sportbike riders. Classroom work and one-on-one track time with experienced riders would have a very positive impact by helping riders better understand their limits and those of the bike.

Dirk

Dive Master here. Done a few dives along the Divide at 10k+ in elevation.

[pilot]

We see the same thing in aviation as well with relatively new pilots. They sometimes "lose the fear" or let poor impulse control, external pressures, and a host of other things get the better of them, and wind up the subject of an NTSB report. New pilots scare easily, but after 100-200 hours of nothing going wrong there is a tendency to get cocky, so those ones need a little different message.

Perhaps a key target area (with a shift in marketing tactics) is the rider who isn't green but still has a lot to learn that only experience can provide? My guess is that's where the majority of accidents occur, just as with pilots. There are so many similarities between the two groups it's pretty astounding actually.

Back in 1975, when I first started flying, I had the battery catch fire uner the rear seat. Let me tell you, that was a challenge... smoke filled cabin, fire extinguisher action. Ended up busting the nose gear on the Piper that day when wind shear slammed the aircraft into the ground.

Perhaps someone could develop a class that would deal specifically with post-crash safety training.

[dallas]

Statistics show that one of the common threads in motorcycle accidents is a new (to the rider) motorcycle. This applies even with riders who are very experienced. Any time a new bike is purchased, maybe there could be a way to get a free MSF course out of the deal?

Some of the larger dealerships in Arizona would give you a certificate for a free track day if you purchased a new bike from them. I don't think they did it on used bikes, but the idea was to take out your new bike and see how you and the new bike interacted together.

[Bugkiller1]

I know dealorships have a hard time not selling a litre class sportbike to a newbie but it would be nice to see more beginners riding smaller, used bikes to get into the sport. Also, at most dealorships, there are deals on bikes that have performance upgrades like aftermarket exhaust, air filter, power comander on brand new bikes... instead dealers should have jacket, helmet glove boot packages to offer at a deal as well to encourage safety instead of making a fast bike faster.

[dallas]

Also, at most dealorships, there are deals on bikes that have performance upgrades like aftermarket exhaust, air filter, power comander on brand new bikes... instead dealers should have jacket, helmet glove boot packages to offer at a deal as well to encourage safety instead of making a fast bike faster.

+1

[rforsythe]

Ok just talked to my ABATE contact - this is not open to public viewing, sorry! This is actually 3 days of presentations from a lot of interested parties (State Patrol and other LE, CDOT, DOR, DMV, ABATE, various groups like ours, etc). We will only be there for a short while, but I will be able to get notes and stuff from the entire conference and will post a synopsis afterwards.

Sounds like this will have far reaching effects as well judging by the people involved, and this isn't just talk - it will make a real difference in CO.

[Devaclis]

That is VERY cool Ralph. Way to represent!

[asp_125]

My MSF class said somthing like 50% of fatal MC accidents involve alcohol.

Well I bet you could guess who is doing that and I don't think it is the sportbike or tour folks.

One look at the sheer number of bikes in front of the Little Bear in Evergreen and in Morrison this weekend would indicate the need for alcohol awareness

[rybo]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd post up a project update. Ralph, Donna and I met last night and hashed out some ideas (basically Ralph and I going off on wild tangents and Donna pulling us back towards reality). Anyways, we came up with a solid outline that incorporates most of the ideas expressed in this thread. Thank you for your input and help. This is by no means done yet, so if you have input PLEASE post up with it. There is still time for good ideas and we want to represent the club in the best way possible.

Pilot, to answer your question, the event is not open to the public and no recording will be allowed. However, there is going to be a "court reporter" there taking notes that will be distributed to all participants and there will be a copy of all of the powerpoint presentations distributed. Ralph and I will post up a summary after the event for your reading pleasure.

Once again....any more input?

S