how far to lean?

[scottiegwood]

so i was looking at the chicken strips on my tires yesterday and noticed i'm leaning almost all the way on my tires.... how will i know when to stop trying to lean?

[mushin_man39]

Knee down yet?

[rybo]

Knee down yet?

Not really an accurate assessment as by not hanging off the bike you have to lean MUCH further for a given speed in a corner. I can put my knee down or not at 50 MPH in the same corner, but I have to lean much further to negotiate the corner if I don't put the knee down. That puts me further over on the edge of the tire.

Scottie, as you get near the edge the contact patch on the tire gets smaller, You will notice the bike will start to get unstable as you approach the very edge of the tire. It won't want to go there (and neither will you).

[scottiegwood]

thanks rybo...


and no i haven't taken a knee yet... however once i get some leathers with sliders i will be eager to learn that technique

[Fly boy]

http://cosportbikeclub.org/forums/sh...highlight=knee

I can't find the other post about "how to get your knee down," I will get it to you when I get home after work.

[Canuck]

Scott, just learn it on the track. Or away from traffic You will get the proper practice on bike lean angles when there are no trees, cars, guardrails around. You should sign up for the second group on the CSC track day.

[rybo]

yeah....what Canuck said

[Slo]

Scott or anyone please correct me if I may be wrong.....

When you first scrub your "chicken strips" off, right at that point you still have a good contact patch, however, the bike will lean further but the catch is....your contact patch on the side will get "smaller" the further you go.

With my minimal time on the edge of the tire, I have felt the bike "push" both on the front and back. Luckily not at the same time, the front pushed slightly, then the rear, then the front and then the rear again. Could be bad input from me, or it could be the limit with the speed, traction, body positioning, etc.

As far as getting the knee down, there can be a big difference in lean angle, speed throughout the turn, etc from someone who actually races, to someone out there just trying to put a knee down. Not only being able to gauge your angle but also it gives a sense of stability at least for me.

[mtnairlover]

I know this is going to be the newb'ist of questions/thoughts out here, but here goes...

So, when I was out at IMI that one time in March, I wore off my chicken strips and my rear tire was at about 4k miles. My new tires are bigger than the old, so first question...further to lean?

My new tires it seems are more prone to "roll" over into the lean. I got used to that pretty quickly. Had a convo with Beotch when I first realized this and then was able to adjust to the new feel. A comment was made about the chicken strips on my new tires...they're almost gone, and I don't go to the track, nor do I put a knee down, nor do I have the proper attire to try and put a knee down anyway. My worry is that I will end up leaning to far and then WHAM, I'm on the ground. I don't ride "balls to the wall," nevertheless, the chicken strips are practically gone...so, I guess the concern is that I won't feel my bike giving way as mentioned in an earlier post and that I'll just end up biffing it in a turn, cuz of my lean angle. Oh and another thought, I have yet to scrape a footpeg...will that happen before my bike actually looses it?

[rybo]

When you first scrub your "chicken strips" off, right at that point you still have a good contact patch, however, the bike will lean further but the catch is....your contact patch on the side will get "smaller" the further you go.

With my minimal time on the edge of the tire, I have felt the bike "push" both on the front and back. Luckily not at the same time, the front pushed slightly, then the rear, then the front and then the rear again. Could be bad input from me, or it could be the limit with the speed, traction, body positioning, etc.

As far as getting the knee down, there can be a big difference in lean angle, speed throughout the turn, etc from someone who actually races, to someone out there just trying to put a knee down. Not only being able to gauge your angle but also it gives a sense of stability at least for me.

Great points, good question.

A lot depends on the tire you use. Pure race tires and slicks will often have a bit more of a triangular profile that gives the largest contact patch while it's on edge. If you look at your tire there is a distinct "edge" where the tread becomes side wall. As you start rolling onto this edge the contact patch will get smaller and eventually go away. This "edge" is more distinct on road tires than on race tires.

I agree that having the knee down can add a sense of stability and that in some cases you can even regulate front wheel traction with pressure on the knee. I've saved at least one crash because I was able to put a lot of pressure on my knee and the front tire recovered. Scary, but it worked.

So, when I was out at IMI that one time in March, I wore off my chicken strips and my rear tire was at about 4k miles. My new tires are bigger than the old, so first question...further to lean?

My new tires it seems are more prone to "roll" over into the lean. I got used to that pretty quickly. Had a convo with Beotch when I first realized this and then was able to adjust to the new feel. A comment was made about the chicken strips on my new tires...they're almost gone, and I don't go to the track, nor do I put a knee down, nor do I have the proper attire to try and put a knee down anyway. My worry is that I will end up leaning to far and then WHAM, I'm on the ground. I don't ride "balls to the wall," nevertheless, the chicken strips are practically gone...so, I guess the concern is that I won't feel my bike giving way as mentioned in an earlier post and that I'll just end up biffing it in a turn, cuz of my lean angle. Oh and another thought, I have yet to scrape a footpeg...will that happen before my bike actually looses it?

This again has a lot to do with the shape of the tires. Since you went with a larger rear tire the rear ride height of the bike increased, effectively reducing the head tube angle in relation to the ground. This will make the bike turn in faster (fall into the turn in a way)

In your case Cath, hard parts should touch down long before you reach the edge. They do on almost every bike. While the chicken strips are gone, the lean angles we get on the street are no where near the max, even for street tires. I was riding street tires at Miller on a race bike with raised rearsets and had my knee tucked up against the fairing and on the ground and there was still tire left. There is plenty of available traction near the edge.

Dragging pegs and knees really isn't behavior for the street. My current rule is that I don't hang off on the street at all. I stay centered on the bike. This keeps my speed in check and I practice being smooth. Fast is for the track.

Have fun out there! Be safe.

[mtnairlover]

Yeah, I kinda thought that in the first place, Scott. Thanks. I just want to be sure that I'm not pushing things when I'm out there. I'm just out to enjoy myself, but I am a better/quicker rider than I was last year. Not knowing about putting a knee down and the differences between that and the way I ride is a bit hazy for me. Thanks for clearing that up.

Another thought occured and so here it is...also having to do with leaning. I have noticed a lot lately that when I'm in turns, if I lean over my tank, look intently down the road, drop my elbow and loosen up my deathgrip on the handlebar, that I have the feeling of better control. Is this silly thinking? Oh and the loosening of the deathgrip is on my left if I'm leaning left, and on my right if I'm leaning right.

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Great reply Scott! I was wondering some of those same things you addressed by the others. I had asked earlier on another thread the impact of different tire sizes in relation to lean angles. Thanks.

[scottiegwood]

thanks that helps a lot with many of my lean questions...

this forum is really really good for a newb like myself

[FortitudoX]

Yup sweet reply, I was wondering that as well since my Zx6 has a smaller rear tire then the 636, but i ride the zx6 harder because it has better tires.

Oddly enough, I've scraped pegs on the 636, but havn't on the Zx6r. So i guess in relation to scraping pegs, I assume it depends on how low they are on the bike.

[mushin_man39]

I am scared to death by some of the misinformation and riding techniques on this thread.

[rybo]

I am scared to death by some of the misinformation and riding techniques on this thread.

Really? What in particular?

[mushin_man39]

Nunya.

[Matty]

how will i know when to stop trying to lean?

not to sound like a dick, but if you asking this question, you're probably nowhere near the max lean angle of your tire.

the only time i would ever worry about leaning to far is on cold tires. unfortunately that comes from experience. during a warm-up lap at the track i low-sided on a downhill right-hand decreasing turn. not fun.


oh ya... for the guy who asked if the guy was touching his knee. you know your knee is just used as a reference point.

[tarded400]

I scraped pegs all the time and once I even drug my rear brake on my CBR at IMI before I got my leathers. After that, I used my new sliders and found that I don't lean the bike NEARLY as far, but am quicker around the track. That being said, I don't drag knee much anymore...

[JAFO]

Don't do it on the street. Their not chicken strips on a bike used for the street their called smart strips. Be their to ride another day.

[PharmerKyle]

Don't do it on the street. Their not chicken strips on a bike used for the street their called smart strips. Be their to ride another day.

Strips = margin for error

Knobbies need just a little more of this than street tires.

[tarded400]

Actually I lose my chicken strips in parking lots anymore...

[koloSboarder]

can any one post some video I am a visual learner on top of a hearing person... would love to lean so far that it looks sick

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

can any one post some video I am a visual learner on top of a hearing person... would love to lean so far that it looks sick

This looks sick to me...anyone else have any fav's?